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  #511  
Old 03-29-2014, 09:36 AM
300%_Density 300%_Density is offline
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If MLB was stupid enough to grant Tampa & Miami baseball teams, they could put a team back in Montreal ( who in their defense did at one point draw very very well, unlike the other 2) it still wouldn't be the worst idea for MLB.
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  #512  
Old 03-29-2014, 09:03 PM
AnthG AnthG is offline
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Past mistakes and failures don't excuse future potential failures. I won't disagree about the situations in Tampa and Miami but just because you have other bad situations doesn't mean you should use that as an excuse for having another similar situation somewhere else. It's like catching a murderer and not punishing him because a murderer last week wasn't caught. The people in Montreal made it very clear they didn't want baseball there. If they really cared, they would have gone to the fucking games. I'm sure they were drawing well at one point...in 1994. Here are the average attendance numbers for Expos games from 2001-2004 (Couldn't find anything earlier):

2001: 7,647
2002: 9,048
2003: 12,662
2004: 9,356

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/year/2004 (Just use the year dropdown to look at different years)

That's just fucking awful. And when you combine that with the fact that Expos tickets were ridiculously cheap, those numbers are even more disgusting. They were even semi-competitive in 2002 and 2003, finishing over .500 both years and actually finishing 2nd in the NL East in 2002. The Marlins had a firesale last offseason and were basically fielding a Triple-A team the entire year, and even they still managed to draw 19,000 people a game, which is more than half of their stadium. The situation in Tampa is far less excusable given how competitive they've been over the last 6 years (as well as benefiting from games against the Yankees and Red Sox which inflate their attendance numbers), but even they manage to pull 18,000/game to their middle-of-buttfuck-nowhere ball park. Montreal doesn't deserve shit, and quite frankly, don't want shit, or need shit. They have the Habs' 24 stanley cups, a rich Death Metal history, the best poutine in Canada, and a drinking age of 18. Let 'em be happy with that.

It's the same thing with people saying there should be an NBA team in Vancouver, or an NFL team in Los Angeles. Been there, done that, and both instances failed. In the case of the NFL team in LA, it failed twice.
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  #513  
Old 03-29-2014, 10:07 PM
300%_Density 300%_Density is offline
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I will attempt to poke some holes in that logic or atleast bring up these points. From '79-83 they averaged 26k, 27k, 28k, 28k & 28k per season. They won 95 games in '79 & were either in the playoffs or in contention those years. When they were successful the people came (which applies to lots of places), '94 was a great team & they drew decent enough (22,400/ GM, which as an avg was only 600,000 less than MLB avg). While they were in a shitty place to play baseball at that.

The final death knell for this organization has a common denominator, in '99 they were owned by Jeffery fuckin Laurie. The bid for a new downtown park failed & even in 2000 blew a deal that kept Expos off English radio & off of television. The absurdity, that you can live in a huge metro city that has a MLB team and if you only speak English you can't listen to it on radio or find it on tv? Never been to canada so I know you'll have an idea w/ English speakers vs French speakers. You had an asshole owner (knowing now what we do) who failed at a new stadium & the media required plus a stadium where ceiling tiles would sometimes fall & then deciding to play home games in San Juan, I think fans can be blamed to an extent. But what did ownership do to keep their young stars or even their fans? Exception of TB, put a great product on the field & people show up. The Twins who really have no hope, no recent playoff success, crappy home game weather first month or 2 & they have had 2 million plus last 11 years, doing over 3 million first 2 seasons at Target Field.

A downtown stadium would have saved them in my opinion & they'd still be in Montreal now. If (huge if) MLB thought of expansion, my wish would be to contract Miami & Tampa & go to Montreal. Vegas, Charlotte, those areas that were talked about are not baseball cities. Thx to the union contraction won't ever happen. New stadium & competent owner and they'll succeed again.

Miami & TB just don't work because those are more transient cities. A lot of those are retiree areas (mostly TB) where the older people are usually from north/northeast areas who already prefer other teams. Plus Tampa area is a huge Yankee area thanks to spring training & Steinbrenner has his name everywhere down there.

Love the discussion. I could go on all day on baseball.

Last edited by 300%_Density; 03-29-2014 at 10:13 PM.
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  #514  
Old 03-30-2014, 06:20 AM
AnthG AnthG is offline
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Oh, it's not just the fans' fault for the situation with the Expos. Jeffrey Loria is a disgusting owner as well (he's also responsible for the situation with the Marlins last year and the fire sale they had). But i'm saying the fans could have done more with supporting their team in those years. I'm not saying it necessarily would have saved the team in Montreal, but for me it definitely would be more of a reason to at least consider a team in Montreal again. This isn't like the situation with the Seattle Sonics where they were still getting good attendance but had an owner that moved the team after buying them under false pretenses. I had actually totally forgotten about some home games being played in San Juan. But was that caused by poor attendance? Or was that for some other business reason that may in turn have caused poor attendance in Montreal? (In a "You're not here all the time, we won't see you when you are here" kind of attitude).

As for game distribution, I've never lived in Quebec but I know in 2003-2004 some Expos games would be shown on The Score (Now Sportsnet 360) occasionally and they had a bit of a deal with them. The Score, while not as popular as TSN or the Sportsnet regional stations, was still a National channel, so they had some exposure that way.

Yes, most sports towns are filled with bandwagon fans who only show up when the teams are doing well and go away when they aren't. But Montreal was on a whole other stratusphere with that, as judged by those attendance numbers. Even the numbers you pulled for when they were in playoff contention, while not terrible, aren't necessarily great either. In fact that 22,000 number in 1994 when they were the best team in baseball before the strike sticks out quite a bit. You could only get 22,000 people to your games, less than half your seating capacity, when you had the best record in baseball? That sucks.

So yes, fans aren't the only ones to blame. And again, I'm not naive and saying that fans showing up to the games would have saved the team. But it would definitely help me feel more sympathetic to their plight. And to be honest, over the last few days when this was being talked about with the Jays/Mets games taking place there, is most of that interest in a baseball team there even coming from Montreal? It seems like that's just something that's being discussed out loud amongst fans in general.
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  #515  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:04 AM
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With opening day in full swing, I was watching a little but of Cubs-Pirates while i had lunch and seeing the stadium shots (great looking ballpark, Pittsburgh) I came up with a bucket list of ballparks I would like to see before I croak.

Note that I am not a huge baseball fan but I think part of the charm of baseball is the ballpark experience; before I begin here are the parks I have been to

1) Coors Field Denver, CO- of course my hometown Rockies play here. Such a great place to go and watch baseball with great views and a great building design even when the Rockies suck

2) Mile High Stadium Denver, CO- this was back in 1994 before Coors Field was built, all I remember was it was hot as hell but the Stadium was packed for the second season of Major League Baseball in Denver, so there were about 65K+ people there

3) Petco Park San Diego, CA- Visited a family friend with my dad and caught a Padres game; another great park with nice views of San Diego

4) Wrigley Field Chicago, IL- Been twice: in 2006 and 2012; this place needs no introduction as one of the historic ballparks in North America]

5) Chase Field Phoenix, AZ- My dad and came down for spring training and took a tour of the place in 2003

and now my MLB ballpark bucketlist

1) Fenway Park Boston, MA- (note: I did visit here on a class trip back in 7th grade (1998) and we took a tour of Fenway but it was raining that day so we couldn't go out on the field

2) Yankee Stadium New York, NY- It is too bad I won't able to see the old classic stadium as it was torn down, but I guess the new place will have to do

3) Oriole Park @Camden Yards Baltimore, MD

4) PNC Park Pittsburgh, PA: what a view

5) Busch Stadium St. Louis, MO

6) Dodger Stadium Los Angeles, CA

7) AT&T Park San Francisco, CA: Again, what a view

8) Great American Ballpark Cincinnati, OH

9) Kauffman Stadium Kansas City, MO

10) Miller Park Milwaukee, WI

and honorable mention: Marlins Park Miami, FL....for the lulz

how about you guys, do you have a bucket list of ballparks?
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  #516  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:25 AM
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I want to go to SF ballpark and a Boston game for the crowd, specifically a Boston Yankee game lol

Also, LETS GO ANGELS!
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  #517  
Old 03-31-2014, 12:11 PM
AnthG AnthG is offline
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I've only been to Rogers Centre and Fenway Park. And Fenway was before I became a big baseball fan.

I'd love to go to a Yankees-Mets game in either ball park, just to be part of the "Let's go Yankees! Yankees Suck!" Chants. Same with a White Sox-Cubs game in either ball park. And also Fenway again now that i'm a Sox fan.
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  #518  
Old 03-31-2014, 12:20 PM
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Royals blew a late-game lead to start the season off with a loss.

So...typical Royals baseball.
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  #519  
Old 03-31-2014, 12:54 PM
AnthG AnthG is offline
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They had a lead against Verlander too. Shame.
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  #520  
Old 03-31-2014, 07:04 PM
300%_Density 300%_Density is offline
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I'm incredibly biased but yes you should definitely check out a game at Busch.

I'm happy anytime we beat that little bitch Cueto (hate him because of his little bitch kicks from the '10 brawl between Cards/Reds). Nice to win a 1-0 game. I was only disappointed in the defense. Normally you make 3 errors & you lose a 1-0 game. Wainwright was DEALING.

Damn your Royals Jackson. I am pulling for them. I really like them a lot. They had that game won. Losing Hocheaver hurts, he was dominant last year. And Salvatore Perez is a monster. Bummed they lost.
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