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Old 06-07-2008, 06:02 PM
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State Of The Maiden Address

I'm gonna post this in parts, cos last time I tried to do it whole, I think I broke the website.

When a band is starting out, most respectable fans don't really have an opinion on them beyond whether or not they like them. The best thing for a band to do in the early stages is to keep doing what their doing and their roots audience will come to them naturally. As time goes on, and a band gets bigger, keeping in touch with the fans to help to keep things grounded and on track becomes more and more difficult as it just isn't humanly possible to keep in touch with thousands to millions of fans.

Ever since I've joined the Iron Maiden BB many moons ago, I've discovered Maiden to be one of the most bitched about bands ever. No matter what they fucking do, nothing is good enough to please people. There's a quote I remember from Dave Mustaine talking about politics "when the next president becomes elected, nothing is going to change. You'll have a faction of people who will be really happy and a faction of people who will be really pissed."

Now I'm not really sure how many "parties" there are regarding Iron Maiden's fanbase, and it would be rather trivial to analyze every single one of them. The most relevant factions to today's discussions; about Iron Maiden are those who think they can still put out relevant music, those who think that they can't, those who think that Maiden are an amazing live act, and those who think "Who cares they keep playing the same songs over and over again, and Bruce can't shut his fucking mouth!" All these different viewpoints being waged back and forth on me have kind of taken their toll, and all that negativity can make one question their own beliefs about anything really. Well I've thought it all out and I prepared a nice long drawn out fanboyish disseration on why the last couple of years for Maiden have not been so great for me.

I think the first sign that things were getting a little weird for Maiden was the decision to do Ozzfest. I know Maiden isn't the most talked about band in America, but if you can still sell out a night in Madison Square Garden (even if it was with Motorhead and Dio) and Long Beach, you do not need to hop on a festival.. During this tour, Bruce was doing a series of interviews that basically held the sentiment "Fuck America and its fat, old, self satisfied, Wal-mart loving ass." Complaints saying how there's no one but fat old guys eating hot dogs at American shows, that in Europe the the oldest people they have at their shows are 25 years old, and that they were doing Ozzfest so they could get the young kids back at their shows I still remember the Maiden show I went to back in 2003. I can't remember if me and my friend Adam were the youngest people there, but I do remember that you could not have seen a more disinterested crowd at a concert. Aside from the cheering in between songs, and a few kids I saw walking past our seats to go outside (presumably to drop off the Cosby kids) air drumming to Hallowed Be Thy Name, this was an absolutely dead crowd. And while that wasn't the only date on the "Give Me Ed tour" I'd be willing to bet a decent chunk of cash that Bruce remembers the shittyness of that crowd as much as I do.

So for the most part I didn't have much of a problem with what Bruce said back then, and even today I still don't. For everybody else, a line split down the middle of Maiden's fanbase and spread it like Lindsay Lohan on ecstasy. I racked my brain for what logical arguments the "other side" would have in their anger in Bruce's words. I came up with the following conclusions:

1)The 37 year old Maiden fan who's been a fan since 1983 is a lot more important than the kid who discovered "2 Minutes to Midnight" on Vice City (sorry Lards) 4 years ago. Think for a second about the situation of the former. He is in essence the reason the band is still around today. While he may have more or less settled down and isn't as rowdy as he used to be, that doesn't necessarily mean his dedication to his favorite band has eroded away throughout the years. And you know what, since Bruce's way of measuring a fans dedication in concert is watching said fan scream and yell and go nuts during a show (a reasonable gauge), what makes him think that just because a fan isn't going nuts doesn't mean he isn't enjoying himself? And for that matter, what makes Bruce think that a younger fan always has more energy than an older fan? Let's say Bruce has his eye on two fans; a 50 year old guy and a 20 year old guy. The 50 year old fan is going apeshit and is about 3 heartbeats per minute from having a heart attack, and the 20 year old is merely standing there, but he's still watching the band and nodding his had and smiling. In short, he at least looks like he's enjoying himself. Does Bruce think the at the former fan is "the old guy at the club" who looks like he's enjoying himself way more than he should, and that the younger guy is some stuck up hipster who thinks its "too cool" to go crazy at a concert, so Bruce has to work harder in order to get this guys attention?

Regardless, I think a show attendee is a show attendee, and all of them deserve to be treated with some level of respect. I mean shit, if Bruce is just tossing the older fans aside, can you imagine the younger fans seeing this treatment and thinking "wow, I have that to look forward to." One could argue the fact that if you have no-one but "kids" coming to your show regardless of location, and no adults whatsoever, that makes you a form of "kids entertainment." Last I checked that's not a compliment in show business. I remember reading somewhere that having an adult fanbase helps any artform grow and have longevity. Its probably a reason why there's so many jazz clubs/venues in America, despite the fact that there are practically 0 jazz artists bringing the music to the masses. It's also a reason why artists like New Kids On The Block or Limp Bizkit have a fanbase for 3 or 4 years, then fade into obscurity. Because artists like those have no place for someone in their "adulthood" as they are too juvenille to be take seriously as adults.


2) If young people aren't going to your own shows based on name alone, they're probably not gonna care that you are on a festival aimed at young people. I have two examples to back this up, one is that I remember talking with someone my age about Ozzfest and they said they could care less about Ozzy and that they go strictly for the second stage. The other is my personal Gigantour experience. I had no interest in seeing anyone there other than Overkill and Megadeth, I had already made my mind up about those bands long before I saw them. If you want to call it closed mindedness, I have no problem with that. Alot of America works that way, especially its young people. This is perhaps a hunch, but I have a feeling that the people who reguarly attend Ozzfest listen to a different brand of "metal" than Iron Maiden. And I wouldn't be too far off in assuming that Iron Maiden fans and "Ozzfest kids" (for lack of a better term) are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. These "Ozzfest kids" have probably made up their mind about Iron Maiden whether they've heard them or not. So the idea of doing Ozzfest and thinking its going to win you tons of new young fans is a pointless one. I mean sure, there are probably some people in between those two extremes who were open minded and converted, but I doubt it was enough people to fill up stadiums coast to coast with kids between ages 15-25. But I digress.

My other problem with Maiden being on Ozzfest was the fact that they were sacrificing the potential of one of the greatest ideas they had ever come up with "the Early Days tour" (which I will touch upon later). I say sacrifice, because the set times at Ozzfest are relatively short. Usually the co-headlining band plays just as long if not a little bit longer than Ozzy/Sabbath does. It would be a little upstaging if they did. Iron Maiden usually plays a set from 90 minutes to 2 hours. Going from that down to 70 minutes is quite the sacrifice in concert time. This move would be slightly understandable to save someones career, but a) Iron Maiden's career was not in danger during this time, (It's not as if they were struggling to get into 200 seat venues), and b) Ozzfest didn't really do anything to help their popularity, even the practically forgotten "Eggfest" incident; once that blew over, it didn't seem like the numbers were that different. Proof of this is the fact that when Maiden's new studio album "A Matter Of Life & Death" came out, it went to #6 on the Billboard charts. While it first it might seem like Ozzfest was a success, it isn't if you compare the fact that Slayer's (a "less popular" band than Maiden) most recent album shot straight to #3 and while they have been on Ozzfest a number of times, it's silly to think that its the reason inital album sales were so well. Slayer's accomplishment was based on fan-intertia alone, regardless of Ozzfest, and that is alsoreason why AMOLAD went to were it went and sold what it sold.

Speaking of which, that was the second sign of trouble for Iron Maiden. According to Maiden, "A Matter Of Life & death" was an album that was "the easiest" to make, and because it came together so effortlessly, they think that it was their best album since the reunion! Just because an album is easy to make doesn't make it good. Before we knew it, a whole bunch of PR bullshit came through and it was mindboggling how much good press the album was receiving. Rags like Metal Hammer were giving it a 10 out of 10 (which was so obviously a payoff from Rod Smallwood). My personal thoughts on the album? Well it isn't the worst thing they've ever done, but Bruce deserves a kick in the mouth for even DARING to suggest its in the realm of Piece Of Mind. Anyways, the album was more or less like the last two "reunion albums"; a few regular songs, but a whole fuckload of what seemed to be the "formula" for the new Maiden "epic:" Two minutes of a clean/ acoustic playing with Bruce doing a relaxed vocal, followed by 4 to 6 minutes of an actual song, closing out with a reprise of the previous intro. Practically every fucking long Maiden song after 1992 has sounded like that. Remember when Maiden didn't pull this shit? Go and listen to Where Eagles Dare and Infinite Dreams back to back. Shit, listen to Where Eagles Dare and Revelations back to back. Notice any immideate similarities ? Absolutely not. (and for those of you just waiting to drop the E D C L O L chord sequence, die in a gangrape) Even Fear Of The Dark and Afraid To Shoot Strangers were slightly different from each other. Yet nowadays "Sign Of The Cross" clones are just about the only damn thing Steve Harris can write. Steve claims its his "progressive" influences showing, but according to legend, Steve has always had progressive influences, but he certainly didn't let them get in the way of writing songs that actually sounded metal. Name Iron Maiden post 2000 song, that actually sounds "metal." Not kinda-sorta "Tom Sawyer" hard rock prog, but "Creeping Death" metal. Not to mention the fact that Steve managed to get out of his own way to let other band members contribute songs on their own. Revelations and Powerslave would not exist without Bruce: fact. Yet you ever notice that Steve has his hand in just about every song that Maiden does post reunion? He can't seem to think like the old days where he just let other writers do their own thing without him needing to add "something". His ego has just gotten too damn big! And for those of you saying "well it Steve Harris's band, shouldn't he be allowed to have as much control over his art as he wants?" Well, Steve Harris seems to be an unfortuante case of "complete artistic control gone wrong." I've heard many a complaint about the production of the last few Maiden records and said naysayers point the blame completely at Steve Harris. While I don't personally agree with this statement, I'm afraid I have no rebuttal for the disaster that was the Death On The Road DVD, which if I'm not mistaken was actually LABELED WITH A FUCKING EPILIPSY WARNING on the case and in the movie itself. I'm sorry Steve, but if you're camera direction is giving retarded kids seizures, then you need to back away from the camera, end of conversation. But I digress...

Maiden, music journalists, and I'd imagine a decent chunk of fans seemed to be so "in love" with AMOLAD, that the band thought "oh what the heck, let's play the whole damn thing live." Now defenders of the album will call this a "ballsy move" and "completely unlike anything the band has done," I call it "ego growing to the point where it's eating itself." "OH THE ALBUM IS SO GOOD WE CAN'T POSSIBLY LEAVE OFF ANY TRACKS." Everybody thinks this about whatever new album they create and they want to pat themselves on the back for all the hard work they put into it. It's human nature. Save for a concept album, no band is high strung enough to think they have to play their entire latest work live. They usually bring out 5 or 6 songs, gauge fan reactions, and if its positive enough, bring out the whole thing. Shit, Mastodon wrote a 14 minute piece called Hearts Alive, which I'm sure they were proud of at the time, but it wasn't until the fans were on their knees begging them to play it live that they finally trumpeted it out. Now while I will say that in order for any ego to cause productivity, regardless of size, courage is required to use it (balls if you must), but somewhere along the way it becomes apparent that this is not courage in the face of adversity, this is a massive amount of self-love that just wants to please itself. One particular slap in the face was when Nicko McBrain was doing a phone interview with Eddie Trunk and regarding the live Maiden debate he had this to say "Well we're not going to please everyone so why even try?" I will address this comment later, but as of right now, I have to say that one of the biggest puss-out statements I have ever fucking heard.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:03 PM
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Part 2:


My third topic of discussion is Maiden's live situation. I remember talking with a friend about Death On the Road coming out and his response was "Honestly, I've heard enough live albums from these guys." My half sarcastic-response was, "Bah! Maiden could put out the same set for a two live albums and I'd still love it!" (Ahhh but where did the love go) His retort was "that's just it though, they don't really change live. Aside from 5 or 6 new songs, they just play the same songs over and over again." I was silent after this. I guess I knew this to be true, but I didn't really see it as a bad thing. After all, a Maiden setlist without one or two of the "standards" does feel a little weird, at least on paper.

So let's examine what songs Maiden have "brought back" since the reunion. Actually I remember reading on the maidenfans website that Murders In The Rue Morgue was brought back on the Virtual XI. That's fucking awesome. Now EdHunter wasn't the first "best-of" album that Maiden put out, but it was the first best-of they toured on. It would also be the biggest trip into the "vault" Maiden fans would see, well, ever. Powerslave, Phantom Of The Opera, Stranger In A Strange Land, Killers, Wasted Years, and Aces High were the songs Maiden fans were rewarded for the paitence. Not only that, but we got to hear Bruce sing a few Blaze songs, and Run To The Hills while not "from the vaults" wasn't played since Bruce left. So quite the overhaul. On Brave New World, we didn't really get anything else execpt for Bruce's interpretation of Sign of The Cross, which was fair since they had a new album to promote. At the tail end of the tour, during the Hammersmith dates for Clive Aid, we got to hear the glorious return of Children Of The Damned, which hadn't been played since either 1986 or 1990 (can't remember which). Then there was "Give me Ed til I'm dead." Here, Europe got to hear, Bring your Daughter to The slaughter, Revelations, Die With Your Boots on, and 22 Acacia Avenue (plus Heaven Can Wait comes back after 5 years if you want to get uber technical). Not too shabby if I do say so myself. America kinda gets the "fat free" version of this. Not only do we only get 3 out of 5 of those songs, for the the first two dates we get no 2 Minutes To Midnight, and after a while they end up dropping Wicker Man and Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter. As time goes on and the band begins to get tired, the setlist gets a little shorter and shorter. Probably bitter because of "old guys with hot dogs." Then there was Dance Of Death, and the only songs resurrected here are Can I Play With Madness and Lord Of The Flies. Not quite trips to the vault, as the former was more or less a staple from 1988-1993 and Lord Of The Flies was a staple during the Blaze years. But hey, better than nothing right?

Next up was a move so completely from left field nobody expected it. An "Early Days" tour playing music exclusively from 1980-1983. Examining Maiden's live situation, this was a lot more ballsier than the AMOLAD tour. Like I said, any band can think that their latest album is the best thing since sliced bread, but about when all the hype is said and done, does that album get forgotten to make room for the next thing? One thing that Bruce complained about was that he was afraid that this was going to be viewed as a "nostalgia tour."

Now something needs to be said about this "nostalgia tour" shit that Bruce is so afraid of. When this tour was announced, do you remember anybody going "LOL NOSTALGIA TOOR?" Shit man, I don't even remember Allan, Bouville, or EvilCheeseWedge complaining about this. When the fuck did anybody accuse Maiden of turning into a nostalgia act with this tour? The only time people starting getting angry was when Bruce opened his mouth about older fans. I firmly believe that the "nostalgia act" paranoia comes from too-cool, stuck up Rolling Stone critics who've never cared about metal bands in the first place, who are looking for a way to stick their noses up at these bands whenever possible. What's funny to me is that these "critics" judging from their "best-of" lists, seem to worship music strictly from the 50's-70's You'll seldom see music from the 80's and 90's and at best one album from the 00's, and they probably only put them there just to make themselves seem "down" with younger readers. If it was up to these critics, their magazines would do nothing but kiss the asses of Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger every month til the end of time. Tell me dear reader, what sounds more like nostalgia to you?
But anyways, another question, and perhaps a more disturbing one at that, is when the fuck did Bruce Dickinson start thinking Iron Maiden were a "serious current evolving artist." Don't people who usually think like this become a laughing stock of the music world, and even when their douchey fanboys come to defend them, they become laughing stocks too? The answer this is a little old interview that Dee Snider did with Metal Sludge.

"You know what? It's not so much that I think people should give it up and call it a day. I think people should stop being unrealistic with their expectations. And my peers kill me with this whole, you know, well, I got to give it to ya. Sorry Bruce! Sorry Dick! 'Iron Maiden for the 2000's.' You know, and they have this whole, like, you know, we're moving, we're continuing on where we left off, bigger and better. It ain't fucking happening! It's all an oldies show, and everybody should just accept it. And there's nothing wrong with an oldies show - that's what I'll be doing next year. Enjoy it for what it is! People coming to see it, maybe for the first time, maybe one last time. But nobody's picking up and putting on the denim and leather and the patches and startin' buyin' the records and following the band around."

Now when it comes to writing and speaking for multiple people, you might be up before a committee because of feelings and other PC shit, but I think I speak for everybody, their mother, and the uncle that molested both of them when I say "Who the FUCK cares about what Dee Snider thinks or has ever thought at all?!" The answer was Bruce.

"Going back to the earliest days of Iron Maiden, our first label said we'd never happen in the States, because we were too aggressive, and too out of left field. This was even before I was in the band. Then when we had 'Number of the Beast', people thought we'd convert to Twisted Sister and be a flavor of the month."

I don't know about you, but that sounds more like a "fuck you right back Dee" than anything else. Dee's quote probably ruffled the feathers of both Bruce and Steve and so they starting thinking "Shit, we gotta start proving that we're relevant to today's music scene somehow" completely forgetting that they've already accomplished that, seeing as how every metal band nowadays, their mother, and the uncle that molested both of them claims Iron Maiden as an influence! Some claim with Piece of Mind, some may claim AMOLAD.

I think every band should have an "early days tour". Not necessarily for nostalgia reasons, but once a band is done touring on an album, they tend to put it behind them and aside from a "radio hit" the rest of the album gets relocated to "deep cut" status, especially live. There comes a certain point where a band becomes an institution, and as a result of that, they more or less have free reign over what they can do and what they can play live. So to me, bringing out songs like "Alexander The Great" and "Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son" isn't nostalgia, its saying thank you to fans who have supported them for so long.

Back to the tour itself. In terms of a trip to the vault, this was practically double what Maiden fans got for EdHunter: Running Free, Another Life, Prowler, Remember Tommorrow, Drifter, Where Eagles Dare, and Phantom of The Opera makes its return 6 years after Edhunter, and Murders In The Rue Morgue makes its return years after Virtual XI. Europe got this and all the other standards. But America got ratfucked on this because of the Ozzfest quest to appease the kiddies. So America for the most part got an abbreviated set. Aside from "Murders" as the opening number, Maiden didn't really play anything they hadn't already played to America in the past 5 years. I'm still pretty pissed about this and I'm sure there are plenty of fans (who, mind you, couldn't afford to fly to New Jersey or Colorado) willing to say fuck you to Iron Maiden for that bullshit.

Next up is the AMOLAD tour, and I don't feel the need to say anything about it that I haven't said already. But I will express dissapointment at the establishment of the "A Matter Of Life & Beast Tour" or whatever the hell it was called to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of Number of the Beast or some shit like that. This was supposed to be one-third AMOLAD one-third Beast, and one-third classics. Well we certainly got one third of the former, but the only other Beast songs we got were NOTB, RTTH, and Children Of The Damned. You know, even if they didn't announce this sort of tour, and were just going to cut back on AMOLAD songs, I'm pretty sure NOTB and Run would have popped up anyway, so the only extra Beast song is Damned. So nothing that they haven't already done in the past 7 years at this point. No Invaders, No Prisoner, not even Gangland. So they more less made a promise to fans and then renegged on it. My question, why even make a "special tour announcement and waste time and money on extra press? Why not just say "here's the next leg of the tour" and if there's a different setlist, that information will travel far because of the "setlist nerd demand." And plus these were in foreign countries, its not like Maiden wouldn't have sold any seats if they didn't make an announcement.

Now let's talk about Maiden's recent activity with the "Payback for pushing our pretentious shit on our fans Tour." You might be asking why I choose to call it such a degrading name, well let's ask Steve Harris:

"On the last tour we opened the show by playing our new album, A Matter of Life and Death, in its 80-minute entirety. We thought we needed the challenge, and it proved the right thing to do. However, it can be hard on the fans playing so much new material and we really appreciated the superb support they gave us. So now l guess it's payback time.

The setlist in question was to be dictated by a tour poster which not only had the names of each of the first seven albums in stone, but repeated mentions that the show would draw from the first seven albums. Here is the setlist in question.

Aces High
2 Minutes to Midnight
Revelations
The Trooper
Wasted Years
Number of the Beast
Can I Play with Madness
Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Powerslave
Heaven Can Wait
Run to the Hills
Fear of the Dark
Iron Maiden
--------------------------
Moonchild
The Clairvoyant
Hallowed Be Thy Name

Now, I'll be honest, the first thing that went through my mind when I read this was "MOONCHILD?!?! Holy shit!!" So I wasn't so ready to jump down Maiden's throat for being "lazy." Plus even though everyone was expecting "Rime Of The Ancient Mariner" that doesn't change the fact that it still hasn't been played in 22 years. So bravo to them for that.

Now, I love Fear Of The Dark. What self-respecting Maiden fan doesn't? But it has no business being on this tour. None. No matter how much crowd interaction is involved. It came out in 92, and for Maiden to put a nineties song on a strictly 80's advertised setlist (not to mention putting out a completely irrelevant 80's compliation disc), that not only is proof of Maiden's laziness to 100% rock the boat, but its an insult to Iron Maiden fans intelligence. "Oh hey we really don't want to learn an extra song we haven't played in years, so why don't we just play another song we always play? It's a live favorite anyway, its not like they'll know the difference." Bullshit. Especially the fact that there are precisely no songs from Killers on this list whatsoever. Again it was advertised on the tour poster, so its a classic example of saying one thing and doing another. Even the overplayed Wrathchild is more welcome here than Fear. What's especially confusing is the fact that they choose to play it despite the fact that they already played it on the AMOLAD tour, which is also probably the reason Can I Play With Madness and Clairvoyant are being played instead of Evil That Men Do, it was already played last tour. So Maiden won't play a song that fits this bill perfectly because they played it last tour, yet they will play a song that doesn't fit the bill because too many stupid n00bs asked for it during "Early Days," even though they did play it last tour? I am common sense and I am not here.

One song that I think needs to permanently retire is Heaven Can Wait. I think the only reason Maiden play it is so they can "have an excuse" to bring Maiden fans onstage with them to sing. Now, I'm not knocking a band wanting to share the stage for its fans, but honestly, it seems like a waste of time & energy to use a 7 minute song in order to do that. Why not do it with "Run To The Hills" or "The Trooper?" Hell, if Maiden really wanted to get into it, they could have all the fans dress up in Eddie Trooper costumes and run across the fucking stage! Charge of the light brigade indeed. I bring this up because there are quite a few Somewhere In Time fanboys. In fact, dare I say, its probably the album that gets the most requests out of their catalogue. But I can tell you which song fans do not want to hear, Heaven Can Wait. They've just heard it enough times.

Judas Priest recently put out the following setlist:

01. Intro: Dawn of Creation
02. Prophecy
03. Metal Gods
04. Eat Me Alive
05. Between the Hammer And The Anvil
06. Devil's Child
07. Breaking the Law
08. Hell Patrol
09. Death
10. Dissident Aggressor
11. Angel
12. The Hellion/Electric Eye
13. Rock Hard, Ride Free
14. Sinner
15. Painkiller
---------------
16. Hell Bent For Leather
17. The Green Manalishi (With the Two-Pronged Crown)
18. You've Got Another Thing Coming

That, my friends, is fucking awesome! Is it perfect? Meh, it could perhaps use a nip and tuck, but this setlist completely shits all over Nicko's pervious quote "We can't please everyone so why try." No matter what type of Priest fan you are, when you read that, only two words came out of your mouth. "HOLY SHIT!" Even if "Nostrodamus" ends up being complete garbage, at least we get to hear Dissident Aggressor for the first time ever! Yet somehow, Steve Harris just doesn't have the heart to bring out Invaders, let alone Alexander The Great.


Finally, we Lauren Harris. I have a very low tolerance for children, especially other people's children, especially children who think that just because they were a cheese pulled out of daddy's cock that they can do what he does. My dad runs a recycling center for a living, does that mean I think I'm the man to run it when he retires? Hell No. Regardless, for some oddball reason I feel it in my concience to take it as easy as I can on her, and I'm gonna do that. After all at the end of the day, somebody's kid is somebody's kid and the who the hell am I to tell someone how to raise it?

Musically, Lauren Harris, is the englishman's Avril Lavigne. Music for 14 year old girls. This is not an insult, it is the truth. That is the music she chooses to make, and I hold her no malice for it. I wish her all the success in the world and I hope she is able to find her audience. And just to prove my sincerity in this matter, I offer Lauren one piece advice: You are not going to find your audience at the WACKEN METAL FESTIVAL.

Shame on you Steve Harris!! Shame on you!! Shame on you for your beauracratic lobbying and forcing a festival of people to sit through someone who's music they will not relate to by one single iota, in order for you and your band to grace the "Mecca of Heavy Metal culture." If you want to drag your daughter all across America and the rest of the world on your tour, I think at this point in your career you've earned the right to do that (truth be told, I think I'd rather sit through Lauren Harris than Bullet For My Valentine myself). But if you're gonna force metal fans at a festival which you have had no hand in creating to sit through her, you the cross the line. I don't care what type of Iron Maiden fan you are, if you condone this action, you deserve to be peed on by Sharon Osbourne's dogs. (It pains me to write this next sentence. It pains me in my Billy Joel, Bob Marley, Rolling Stones loving white heart to write this, but it needs to be said) Speaking of Sharon Osbourne, I don't ever remember her adding Kelly Osbourne on the Ozzfest roster during her short lived career as a pop singer. Do you? Sharon Osbourne officially has more common sense then Steve Harris. This an ugly ugly truth. She may have put Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, and Jada Pinkett Smith's goth project on Ozzfest, but goddammit, at least she knows that Ozzfest goers do not want to hear her daughter sing "Shut Up." And I can say with 100% certainty, that Wacken goers do not want to hear Lauren Harris sing "Hurry Up."
Somewhere Paul Di'anno, Dennis Stratton, Clive Burr, and Blaze Bayley are laughing their asses off.


So in conclusion, do I want Iron Maiden to break up? Fuck no. I write all of this because I care.

"[The Band] argue about certain things because we care. If you don't that means there's complacency, and complacency means you don't care."

That quote is from Nicko McBrain on the Live After Death DVD. And I think it drives my point home perfectly. I'm so sick and tired of all the faggots on blabbermouth, Metal Sludge and all the other irrelevant message boards complaining about Iron Maiden. Sure you can ignore it the first fifty times, but after a while, that shit takes it toll on you, and you begin to question whether or not these guys are right. "Oh Josh, what are you going to police the internet now?" As far as I'm concerned writing this is alot more helpful to Iron Maiden's cause than just sitting back and doing nothing. I'll still be spinning the Iron Maiden albums when the mood suits me (I may even put on AMOLAD), but if Maiden wish to reclaim the title "Greatest Metal Band ever" from Judas Priest, they've got some work to do.

"But open the gates of my hell, I will strike from the grave!"
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:28 PM
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I'll give you props for the write-up and the all thought you put into that. Nevertheless, there's a good reason Maiden are pretty much the only metal band who had their hey-day in the 80's who are right now in 2008 as popular and relevant around the world as they ever have been at any time in their career. I realized awhile ago that dissecting setlists is about the lamest commentary you can make on a band if that's your fuel for ragging on them, since I'd say 5% of any given band's fanbase (even a fanbase as rabid as Maiden have) really pays attention or cares about their setlists enough to make it out to be a sore spot. These are old dudes who tour and make music at a very consistent rate, and as much as people bitch about the new Maiden song formula, what other 80's metal band has released 3 albums as good as the ones Maiden have since the year 2000? At least no one else I know is writing songs in the style of "Paschendale" and "The Longest Day", its not like the amount of those type of songs is over saturated. They put more effort into a live show than any band I've ever seen, and barring the Ozzfest mistake, their shows have improved every year since the reunion, and I think most every fan who has seen the tours can vouch for that. Criticize away, but at the end of the day you gotta look at the facts; in general, across the globe, Iron Maiden is the most relevant metal band from the 80's active today.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:33 PM
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Also if you wanna argue that Judas Priest are the "Greatest Metal Band ever", I'd love to read up on that logic too
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:41 PM
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Also if you wanna argue that Judas Priest are the "Greatest Metal Band ever", I'd love to read up on that logic too
I meant to say "My favorite band ever." I'm actually not even sure where "greatest band ever" came from.


And no, the setlist wasn't my entire fuel for writing this up. Although it doesn't help when you spend 20% of your week on a website with constant setlist critique. It was more of a supporting argument (I use that word loosely) in the fact that most of Maiden seem to be doing nowadays reeks of laziness. As for "work into a live show" I remember reading on another board that one guy walked out on a Maiden show because "Janick couldn't stop posing his ass off."

This writing was more or less me explaining that I'm just not the rabid Maiden fanboy I was because of the events of the past 3 years, and the criticism surrounding it. And fuck that "think for yourself" bullshit, sooner or later all that crap wears you down. It also doesn't help that you can't log into any of the other places where these debates are going on so you can pitch in.
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Old 06-07-2008, 06:54 PM
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Some points in non-specific order....

1. Not saying I'm agree with all or anything you wrote specially but those two posts are two of the best we've EVER had on the board. THANK YOU.

2. Post Blaze songs that sound like 'creeping death' metal: Monstegur, Face In The Sand, Fallen Angel, Paschendale... I totally disagree with you on this point... there's a lot of metal in the last three studio albums.

3. In hindsight, I have probably would have preferred a real Maiden tour over an Ozzfest, although I did fly to one of their couple headlining shows in North America. I have to believe both Ozzfest and their inclusion on games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band has had a HUGE influence on their resurgance.

4. I don't need another Piece Of Mind. I like AMOLAD and I really liked that the whole thing was played live. Saying an album was easy to make is standard music business bullshit. I completely ignore statements like that. I also don't think all -- I know you didn't mean it literally -- is the same... i.e. Journeyman. Where did that come from?

5. Alan and Bouville were both off the site, probably out of metal entirely. Both would have bitched by their old standards. I probably would have shouted down both of them, leading the forces of maiden lemmingdom. This tour may nostalgia for people who had been part of it the first time around, but I just saw things I've NEVER seen at a Maiden concert. This last set of shows were arguably the best I've ever seen.

6. Disney has a new ride in both Florida and California. On the east coast, it's called Toy Story Mania. On the west cost, it's Toy Story Midway Mania. The national media just calls its Toy Story Mania. So hardcore net bitches have accused Disney of lying about the name of the ride, i.e. advertising a ride that doesn't exist. It's silly. So is worrying too much about Fear Of The Dark. I like this song. If that is all people have to complain about the last set list, Maiden did something very right.

7. Judas Priest NEEDED to shake up their set list. Badly. They may have pulled one out for their two but their last couple of tours have been pretty predictable. Moving on...

8. Three hearts beat away from a heart attack? I'm working on that. I go as apeshit as anyone at a Maiden concert, short of the drunk and/ deranged.

9. Bruce caused a major spilt, at least on the net with his comments. I don't really care to go back there.

10. Good points on the adult fanbase and jazz. Damn good points.

11. I'd prefer less frenzy dvd's.... I actually want to watch some of them play..

12. I have no complaints with Harris' steerage of Maiden. If only other bands had a Steve Harris...

13. Lauren Harris doesn't belong in an opening slot on a Maiden tour... I have mixed opinion about her band after the irvine shows. more on this later.

14. I don't like how quickly songs from new albums get put away.. but then again... how exactly do you prevent it? more shows?


Again... MOST EXCELLENT POSTS. This fucker will be sticked for a long time to come. THANK YOU!
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Last edited by hot_turkey_ed; 06-07-2008 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 06-07-2008, 07:48 PM
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i read that review in awe. yes i haven't been a huge maiden fan for that long. I've always listened to the essentials (trooper, run to the hills, number of the beast) but it was the beginning of the year that i became truly in love with their music. and in that short time i did enough research to fully understand where this write up came from. and yes i have to agree with it. maybe some things in there kinda made me say to myself "ok that's not entirely true", but for the most part, it made perfect sense. now i want to keep this short so I'll just say this, yes maiden has been fucking up lately, but at least they haven't become like metallica, or ozzy, or hell even like the present guns n roses. if the people on those other forums bash iron maiden, fine, so be it. they are probably the ones that went on their last tour for bullet for my valentine. fuck them, who cares what they say. you go to the concerts, you listen to true metal music, and you enjoy every second of it. UP THE IRONS AND KEEP UPING THE IRONS THROUGH THE DARK TIMES
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Old 06-07-2008, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hot_turkey_ed View Post
Some points in non-specific order....

1. Not saying I'm agree with all or anything you wrote specially but those two posts are two of the best we've EVER had on the board. THANK YOU.

2. Post Blaze songs that sound like 'creeping death' metal: Monstegur, Face In The Sand, Fallen Angel, Paschendale... I totally disagree with you on this point... there's a lot of metal in the last three studio albums.

3. In hindsight, I have probably would have preferred a real Maiden tour over an Ozzfest, although I did fly to one of their couple headlining shows in North America. I have to believe both Ozzfest and their inclusion on games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band has had a HUGE influence on their resurgance.

4. I don't need another Piece Of Mind. I like AMOLAD and I really liked that the whole thing was played live. Saying an album was easy to make is standard music business bullshit. I completely ignore statements like that. I also don't think all -- I know you didn't mean it literally -- is the same... i.e. Journeyman. Where did that come from?

5. Alan and Bouville were both off the site, probably out of metal entirely. Both would have bitched by their old standards. I probably would have shouted down both of them, leading the forces of maiden lemmingdom. This tour may nostalgia for people who had been part of it the first time around, but I just saw things I've NEVER seen at a Maiden concert. This last set of shows were arguably the best I've ever seen.

6. Disney has a new ride in both Florida and California. On the east coast, it's called Toy Story Mania. On the west cost, it's Toy Story Midway Mania. The national media just calls its Toy Story Mania. So hardcore net bitches have accused Disney of lying about the name of the ride, i.e. advertising a ride that doesn't exist. It's silly. So is worrying too much about Fear Of The Dark. I like this song. If that is all people have to complain about the last set list, Maiden did something very right.

7. Judas Priest NEEDED to shake up their set list. Badly. They may have pulled one out for their two but their last couple of tours have been pretty predictable. Moving on...

8. Three hearts beat away from a heart attack? I'm working on that. I go as apeshit as anyone at a Maiden concert, short of the drunk and/ deranged.

9. Bruce caused a major spilt, at least on the net with his comments. I don't really care to go back there.

10. Good points on the adult fanbase and jazz. Damn good points.

11. I'd prefer less frenzy dvd's.... I actually want to watch some of them play..

12. I have no complaints with Harris' steerage of Maiden. If only other bands had a Steve Harris...

13. Lauren Harris doesn't belong in an opening slot on a Maiden tour... I have mixed opinion about her band after the irvine shows. more on this later.

14. I don't like how quickly songs from new albums get put away.. but then again... how exactly do you prevent it? more shows?


Again... MOST EXCELLENT POSTS. This fucker will be sticked for a long time to come. THANK YOU!
1. Not bad, considering I also used Peter North jokes to diffuse political disussuions.

2. Too bad Kai Hansen already wrote the "Fallen Angel" riff for "Land Of The Free." But what I meant by metal...there has to be a certain "crunch" to your bands sound in order for you to qualify as metal in my book. Rush's "One Little Victory" comes to mind, despite Rush not being a "metal" band, but would the song sound out of place on a Motorhead album? hell no!

3. As did Grand Theft Auto: Vice City...

4. I don't want another Piece Of Mind either, but I also don't want another Brave New World , at least I didn't need three of em.

5. Honestly, I would see them instead of Priest/Heaven Hell/Motorhead, ah but the timing...(on my part especially).

6. All I wanted was to see Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son brought back. Hell, if they brought that back for the tour I probably wouldn't have written this.

7. Yes, and they did. God bless them for it.

8. I was afraid that section was monotonous.

10. Thank you.

11. I actually still have not bought that DVD to this day, but its because I'm extremely choosy about what music DVD's I buy.

14. I for one would like The Nomad, Wildest Dreams, and Out Of The Silent Planet to come out live. The latter was a friggin single for God's sake!
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Last edited by JRA; 06-07-2008 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:02 PM
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The Nomad
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:29 PM
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but at least they haven't become like metallica, or ozzy, or hell even like the present guns n roses.

And for that I am grateful.
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