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[SnakeCharmer]

Originally Posted by ADD

No. Dying Fetus' new one is the epitome of generic, and from the songs I've listened from the new Odious Mortem and Despised Icon its basically the same thing. In fact its almost hard to tell these kind of bands apart from each other, very depressing actually. I've had the Psyopus on my computer for a while but haven't listened yet, and am in the process of getting that Mithras. I expect both to be at least much better than those other three you mentioned. Also have to give the new Akercocke a listen, and maybe something else will surprise me. But so far I have to admit the new Vital Remains has been the best death metal I've listened to released in 2007, and it is quite average.

Disagree with your assesment on the Dying Fetus. While its not topping Destroy the Opposition, its a damn fine record. Speaking of generic, I find the new Vital Remains to be just that. Its basically Dechristianize 2 with no evolution whatsoever and I am not very fond of the production job either. I still need to listen to more of the Despised Icon, Odius Mortem and Akercocke to properly assess them but so far I've liked what I've heard from these albums. For now the Psyopus and Mithras are my favorite death metal releases of 07 but in the overall scheme of things they aren't going to be remembered as amazing releases.

[ADD]

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

Disagree with your assesment on the Dying Fetus. While its not topping Destroy the Opposition, its a damn fine record. Speaking of generic, I find the new Vital Remains to be just that. Its basically Dechristianize 2 with no evolution whatsoever and I am not very fond of the production job either. I still need to listen to more of the Despised Icon, Odius Mortem and Akercocke to properly assess them but so far I've liked what I've heard from these albums. For now the Psyopus and Mithras are my favorite death metal releases of 07 but in the overall scheme of things they aren't going to be remembered as amazing releases.

Seriously how can you say 'War Of Attrition' is not completely generic? It's so textbook death/grind that its depressing. Not even an idea to throw something memorable in there, the only variety is the occasional half-hearted breakdown attempt. Boring and lame. At least Vital Remains had the sense to write some actual RIFFS (no matter how contrived they are) and make a few somewhat memorable songs (the title track once that lead melody comes in, come on, fuckin ace) instead of just the same tired drivel repeated over and over. For me, an example of a modern death metal album that will catch my attention and garner repeat listenings is 'Demigod'. Obviously not everyone can be like Nile since they have their own niche that sets them apart specifically, so I'd say the standard-bearer for making solid "generic" (for lack of a better term, I think you get what I mean though) death metal right now is Behemoth. Very little frills, they just write solid tunes without being exceptionally complex (although playing this type of music it is a given that you must be among the best at simply playing your instrument) and stay generally away from the cliches that grip so many bands. That's what helps set them apart.

[ChildrenofSodom]

I am pretty tired of the "its pretty generic [power metal, death metal, Iced Earth]" excuse. If a genre ain't broke, then don't fix it. Some people out there like generic power metal/death metal and that is what they are going to listen to. When bands change their sound, they get called sell-outs. If Dying Fetus and Vital Remains still have fans, then why would they want to move out of the "generic death metal" realm.

NP: In the Arms of Devastation by Kataklysm

[DethMaiden]

Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom

I am pretty tired of the "its pretty generic [power metal, death metal, Iced Earth]" excuse. If a genre ain't broke, then don't fix it. Some people out there like generic power metal/death metal and that is what they are going to listen to. When bands change their sound, they get called sell-outs. If Dying Fetus and Vital Remains still have fans, then why would they want to move out of the "generic death metal" realm.

NP: In the Arms of Devastation by Kataklysm

Innovation is welcomed. I'm not going to not listen to something specifically because it doesn't change anything up, but a band that does something interesting is way more likely to get my attention than one who doesn't.

[ChildrenofSodom]

Originally Posted by DethMaiden

Innovation is welcomed. I'm not going to not listen to something specifically because it doesn't change anything up, but a band that does something interesting is way more likely to get my attention than one who doesn't.

But along the lines of "what is progressive", just because a band does something different, that doesnt make it good. Just like if a band does something unoriginal, it can still be good.

[DethMaiden]

Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom

But along the lines of "what is progressive", just because a band does something different, that doesnt make it good. Just like if a band does something unoriginal, it can still be good.

No, but stuff that is different that I like outnumbers stuff that isn't 10 to 1.

[ADD]

Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom

I am pretty tired of the "its pretty generic [power metal, death metal, Iced Earth]" excuse. If a genre ain't broke, then don't fix it. Some people out there like generic power metal/death metal and that is what they are going to listen to. When bands change their sound, they get called sell-outs. If Dying Fetus and Vital Remains still have fans, then why would they want to move out of the "generic death metal" realm.

NP: In the Arms of Devastation by Kataklysm

Here's the problem with that; if I want standard power metal, there's HUNDREDS bands who do it better than Iced Earth. If I want death metal, there's HUNDREDS of bands who do it better than Dying Fetus. Innovation only takes you so far, as does playing by the rules; execution is always the top priority. I'm not saying that they don't have fans and that they should change (well if I do say that then I'm just kidding obviously), they can do whatever they want. I can't pinpoint what kind of criteria I have that if a band fits it I will automatically like them, there's no formula. The only thing would be that it has to incite an emotion and make me feel something otherwise its pointless. Listening to a lot of these type of bands I get nothing out of it. It's worse to feel utter indifference for something that utter hate I think, and that's kind of the situation here, which means their purpose of existing as artists is lost on me at least. Lots of other people dig it, and the band themselves do to so they'll keep playing. Personally though the majority of bands that stick to the status quo and keep rehashing things that were already done better by countless others before makes them obsolete to me. It depends on the style one favors though as well, for instance a death metal fan will listen to any bands he can find that fits his needs no matter how similar they sound in the same way someone who likes power metal will seek out bands in a similar form.

[ADD]

I don't want to make it seem like I think you have to be "original" or innovative to be good or to have any credit either. That's not what I think at all.

[ChildrenofSodom]

Originally Posted by ADD

I don't want to make it seem like I think you have to be "original" or innovative to be good or to have any credit either. That's not what I think at all.

Thats what I thought you were saying, but you arent, so nevermind.

I guess I just hate the "progressive" label. "Oh, we play music no else has played before. We are in the same genre as every other band that has ever played an original note"

[SnakeCharmer]

Originally Posted by ADD

Seriously how can you say 'War Of Attrition' is not completely generic? It's so textbook death/grind that its depressing. Not even an idea to throw something memorable in there, the only variety is the occasional half-hearted breakdown attempt. Boring and lame. At least Vital Remains had the sense to write some actual RIFFS (no matter how contrived they are) and make a few somewhat memorable songs (the title track once that lead melody comes in, come on, fuckin ace) instead of just the same tired drivel repeated over and over. For me, an example of a modern death metal album that will catch my attention and garner repeat listenings is 'Demigod'. Obviously not everyone can be like Nile since they have their own niche that sets them apart specifically, so I'd say the standard-bearer for making solid "generic" (for lack of a better term, I think you get what I mean though) death metal right now is Behemoth. Very little frills, they just write solid tunes without being exceptionally complex (although playing this type of music it is a given that you must be among the best at simply playing your instrument) and stay generally away from the cliches that grip so many bands. That's what helps set them apart.

Ok, I think at this moment we are just going to have to agree to disagree about what makes a great death metal band. In the case of Behemoth, I just cant stand where this band is now compared to where they were with albums like Grom. I understand that Behemoth got more popular when they went more death metal in their approach but that's another case of a band I find generic. To me, Demigod sounded exactly like Zos Kia Cultus which is exactly the same problem I am having with Icons of Evil. I get nothing out of these albums and at this point I would rather listen to Dechristianize than to Icons of Evil. In the end, its all about if the music "moves" me and the new Dying Fetus did (however, this album will most likely not be in my top 20 at the end of the year.) It's not about progression, innovation, musicianship or stuff like that. Its simply about: "Do I like what I am hearing?"