Protest the Hero

[JRA]

Originally Posted by Div

I'm not gonna bash your band dude, but saying they are on the same level of Maiden is just... well I don't even think there's a word to describe that.

Well he seems to think that Maiden sold solely on shock value, so I would consider any Maiden opinion irrelevant.

[Maiden33]

Originally Posted by Angelripper

Maybe I should edit the post.

I never said they were good live. I've seen some youtube videos, and they aren't very impressive on stage.

However,

They're fricking teenagers. Cut them some slack. I'm not advertising their shows, I'm advertising their album.

I have about 1000x more respect for a band that is great live than one that can release a great album.
Let's see... live you have a visual and audio element to represent, but furthermore, when you play live, you have one chance to get it right, as opposed to the studio, where you eseentially have as many chanes as you need to get something right. The right studio knowledge and producers can make terrible bands sound good in the studio, whereas who you really are comes out live, along with the skills you have don't have.

[Angelripper]

Originally Posted by neilpeartjr.

Well he seems to think that Maiden sold solely on shock value, so I would consider any Maiden opinion irrelevant.

What in the bluest of blue hecks have you been smoking. I never said Maiden sold purely on shock value - they have great music. But don't pretend that the countless 666 chants and Eddie on the covers didn't aid the sales of some albums...

Originally Posted by Maiden33

I have about 1000x more respect for a band that is great live than one that can release a great album.
Let's see... live you have a visual and audio element to represent, but furthermore, when you play live, you have one chance to get it right, as opposed to the studio, where you eseentially have as many chanes as you need to get something right. The right studio knowledge and producers can make terrible bands sound good in the studio, whereas who you really are comes out live, along with the skills you have don't have.

Yes, you are right. They can make terrible bands 'sound' good. But are the producers and mixers the ones who write the songs/albums? No. They may have some creative input, but ultimately it's up to the artist to make his/her own music. For example, I don't like a few bands, but heck yea, their albums have excellent production and a glossy sound, but I don't like the music. It doesn't matter if it was recorded in a studio, a house, a barn, King Tut's tomb, the land of fruity queers, or Noah's fricking Ark. If the music is good, all that the executive producers can do is clarify the sound and make it sound bigger. And how do you account for thousands of bands with craphole production that have written some of Metal's greatest hymns? I'm not going to credit Mr. Can'tmixanalbumtosavemylife with Emperor's finest works, Darkthrone's biggest albums, or Bathory's mightiest mammoths. The band wrote the music, they are the one's who you judge.

And as for live, it's up to you. If I watch a band play crappily live, I won't like it. But humans make mistakes sometimes, and we're born to screw up from time to time. If you don't like listening to a band live, does that mean you're never going to listen to their marvellous studio albums ever again? I'm sure you're a big Stratovarius fan - well I heard they suck massive balls live. If that influences you buying their STUDIO albums, then I think that's the stupidest thing ever said since the dawn of time.

[Div]

Oh man, can you guys imagine how awesome Powerslave would have been if they recorded it in King Tut's tomb?

[DethMaiden]

Originally Posted by Div

Oh man, can you guys imagine how awesome Powerslave would have been if they recorded it in King Tut's tomb?

Clutch's "The Elephant Riders" was recorded in Stonewall Jackson's house.

[overkiller]

Originally Posted by Maiden33

I have about 1000x more respect for a band that is great live than one that can release a great album.
Let's see... live you have a visual and audio element to represent, but furthermore, when you play live, you have one chance to get it right, as opposed to the studio, where you eseentially have as many chanes as you need to get something right. The right studio knowledge and producers can make terrible bands sound good in the studio, whereas who you really are comes out live, along with the skills you have don't have.

This figures... I bet you're a big Dream Theater fan, right? Christ.

[Maiden33]

Originally Posted by overkiller

This figures... I bet you're a big Dream Theater fan, right? Christ.

Nope. Don't like em much at all. Because while they're all amazing musicians, the end result isn't very good... They're the living proof that just because you have playing ability, you can't have a good band if you don't know how to use said talent.

[Maiden33]

Originally Posted by Angelripper

Yes, you are right. They can make terrible bands 'sound' good. But are the producers and mixers the ones who write the songs/albums? No. They may have some creative input, but ultimately it's up to the artist to make his/her own music. For example, I don't like a few bands, but heck yea, their albums have excellent production and a glossy sound, but I don't like the music. It doesn't matter if it was recorded in a studio, a house, a barn, King Tut's tomb, the land of fruity queers, or Noah's fricking Ark. If the music is good, all that the executive producers can do is clarify the sound and make it sound bigger. And how do you account for thousands of bands with craphole production that have written some of Metal's greatest hymns? I'm not going to credit Mr. Can'tmixanalbumtosavemylife with Emperor's finest works, Darkthrone's biggest albums, or Bathory's mightiest mammoths. The band wrote the music, they are the one's who you judge.

And as for live, it's up to you. If I watch a band play crappily live, I won't like it. But humans make mistakes sometimes, and we're born to screw up from time to time. If you don't like listening to a band live, does that mean you're never going to listen to their marvellous studio albums ever again? I'm sure you're a big Stratovarius fan - well I heard they suck massive balls live. If that influences you buying their STUDIO albums, then I think that's the stupidest thing ever said since the dawn of time.

Writing is only one element to a great band, probably the most important element, but band that can write great songs but can't play them has no place recording their own albums. There's actually an entire proffesion for people who can write but don't play very well, they're called songwriters. About accounting for great albums with bad production... this is basically a no-brainer. There are a lot of great bands out there that are plagued with bad production, but I don't think any less of the band for it, unless they produce their own albums... Great music in shitty quality is still good. Shitty music in great quality is still bad... and essentially, as far as the production thing goes, someone once told me: "You can cover shit with gold, but it's still going to be shit."
And I realize humans make mistakes. I surely don't expect note-for-note perfect live shows of any band I listen to, with the exception of one or two of them... but It's not like I'm the only person to make complaints on this band's live show... If bands have an off night here or there, generally a reputation won't get started about them anyway... but if a band sucks live on a regular basis, people start to say shit about it.
And about Stratovarius... They don't suck live. Timo Kotipelto sucks live, the rest of the band is great.