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Old 03-19-2014, 04:31 PM
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DementedX14 DementedX14 is offline
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Originally Posted by anomynous View Post
This forum is dead without Wolverinekills.
3/13 - BMTH
4/15 - Katatonia
5/09 - Opeth/Gojira
Old 03-20-2014, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by anomynous View Post
This forum is dead without Wolverinekills.
Originally Posted by DementedX14 View Post

Truth of the matter... no one on this site (myself included with a role exception of paying the bills .. i know, details...) is irreplaceable, indispensable, etc.

Traffic on the site remains near its all high in terms of page views, daily logins, etc. People come, people go... the site moves on.

The number one concern I have about metal in general is the state of the business... technology has done wonders for music but it has harmed as well.

Blabbermouth posted a post from Robb Flynn of Machinehead a couple days back. They reprinted a blog post of his. I'm going to re-post it here.

"I'm in a shitty mood.

"Not for the story I'm about to tell, but because of my thoughts afterward.

"I went out to San Francisco for my buddy Joe's birthday shenanigans. We went out for Moroccan food at a joint called El Mansour. The place had a great vibe, belly dancing, sword balancing, and amazing food! The lamb in particular was to-freakin'-die-for, slow roasted and covered in honey and cinnamon.

"On the way out there, Joe's buddy Tony picked me up from JingleTown [studio], since I didn't want to drive as I knew I'd be drinking. On the hour-long trip out (Saturday traffic to San Francisco), he was telling me some pretty awesome stories about growing up in the ''70s. You see, Tony was a teenager in 1975, and used to go the famous San Francisco venue Winterland. Winterland was before my time, but being part of the scene you heard the legend, the stories and the history.

"Tony is a big BLACK SABBATH fan, saw them back in '75 on the 'Sabotage' tour and said it was a life-changing experience. Him and his buddies used to go to Winterland, load up on LSD, cigarettes, and weed, and go watch pretty much the cream of the crop of classic rock bands. TED NUGENT, SABBATH, DEEP PURPLE, JOURNEY, MONTROSE, you name it, he went and saw it. The shows would start and if people loved the opening band (essentially cheering non-stop) they'd get to do encores. He was telling me about a show JOURNEY (the opener!), killed it, and they got 4 encores, the support band got 4 encores! Then the headliner, MONTROSE, got 5 ENCORES! MONTROSE didn't stop playing until 2:30 in the morning, everyone stayed, no one would even dare consider leaving and people experienced some of the best music of their lives.

"An opener getting encores, crazy…

"And the venue allowed things like this to happen. The venue just kept the bands rolling.

"Not only that, but all of the shows at Winterland were $4.50.

"4 dollars and 50 cents…..18 freakin' quarters!


"All I could think of was 'what an amazing time for music.'

"People wonder why the 'classic rock' bands were so good. They were playing by their own rules, and they had a culture of venues and people around that were as crazy and fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants as the bands themselves. The promoters around that time did anything to make the bands happy and if it meant playing all goddamn night? Let 'em!

"I tell you right now, though, there isn't a band out there who would play til 2:30 a.m. nowadays, let alone find a major venue that would even ALLOW such a thing.

"I remember when I first started going to /playing thrash shows, it was a very similar thing. It was no rules, no security, no safety, no curfews, and for the most part anything went!
Venues these days are mostly run with union workers. In most major cities, you have to take breaks during the day, where a band can't even sound check for an hour because the union workers need a 'break.' Nowadays if you play 1 minute past 11 p.m. at any of the large union venues, it costs the band $1,000 dollars a minute. When we were out with METALLICA playing arenas they regularly play 20 minutes past 11:00 p.m., and they regularly paid $20,000 to do so.

"I went and saw PEARL JAM about a month ago, and they played one of the best, most truly rock 'n' roll shows I've seen in eons. It was fucking magical, Eddie Vedder drank 3 bottles of wine, and about 2 hours into the set, he started getting a little sloppy, forgetting lyrics, missing cues, it looked like it was about to fall off the rails. The band then they took a quick break and he came back and played 'Black'.

"Let me tell you, it was magic! I'm getting goose bumps writing this, just remembering it. It was such a turn-around; it totally took the night to an even higher level. At this point they were already 45 minutes past 11. They played several more songs and eventually the Oakland Arena (currently called the Oracle Arena, until some different stupid corporate sponsor buys it and changes it to something ridiculous like Florida's 1-800-Ask Gary Amphitheater) turned on the house lights, signaling them to stop. PEARL JAM said 'fuck you!' and played 2 more songs with the house lights on! Eddie Vedder then brought the band back out onstage to do an extra-long goodbye to the crowd. I love their fucking attitude.

"In the end, they played 70 minutes over 'curfew' and I'd imagine left Oakland about $70,000 dollars lighter to do so. Of course PEARL JAM can afford it, and frankly it gave every single person there one of the best shows of their life. But this gesture to keep the 'room' in a good mood in conjunction with the Winterland conversation, it got me thinking.

"Shit has changed.

"On the one hand, I love PEARL JAM's 'fuck you, were doing it our way' attitude, and on the other hand, it angered and depressed me.

"Only the METALLICAs and PEARL JAMs can pull things like this. Bands that have sold millions of records, and they can afford it.

"If MACHINE HEAD tried playing an hour over curfew at say, the House Of Blues in Dallas, Texas, we'd be walking out of there with our entire guarantee eaten up. Even if the fans wanted it, some venue would do their best to shut it down, cut power, close curtain, whatever.

"The music business has sucked the life out of creativity. No one is encouraged to take risks, no one is encouraged to push the envelope, because it's all about first-week sales! It's about pointless radio play and how good your last tour went. How venues and promoters are squeezing the last drop of spontaneity out of your soul by not 'allowing' you to playing past curfew and not drawing outside the line.

"When we play that game, we essentially applaud mediocrity.

"There's nothing dangerous about music these days, there's nothing surprising about it either. There can't be. Other than PEARL JAM, the only 'band' that doesn't seem to really give a flying fuck and plays by their own rules isn't really a band at all, are they? Axl and the ROSES are known for bending the rules and telling the powers that be to 'fuck off,' but because their band is so confusing they come across as a joke. But people don't see this. People don't see any of this!

"And the reason you don't care is because it's too easy to get sucked into your phone, or your Facebook, or your Twitter, or your Tumblr, or your Instagram, or your games, or your TV shows.

"Music isn't important anymore. Say it is all you want, but the fact is, the 2 biggest rock records of last year only sold 400,000 copies, neither even went gold.

"Music is in the background of a game. Why go to a show when you can watch clips of it on YouTube and bitch about how it stinks live?

"And you know what, I miss music being important! I miss live shows being important. I miss feeling a part of something that was so high on my list I'd crawl through broken glass to get it.

"All this technology we have now that's supposed to make us 'connected?' It's making me feel more fucking disconnected than ever. I mean watching all the things that other people are doing that I'm not invited to or even a apart of? And yet at the same time completely disgusted by faux-self-importance it has given everyone, (here's my dog or cat for the millionth time, here's a selfie for the millionth time, here's my kids for the millionth time, here' the food I'm eating for the millionth time, here's what I'm doing and you're not). Don't you wish you were eating what I'm eating?

"Fuck you!

I've thought of tweeting or Facebooking something so many time and just went, 'who cares', why should anyone care about this, and you SHOULDN'T care.

"You're all my 'friends,' you've all 'liked' me, but really, you're not my friends, because we don't know each other. You took a photo of me, or you interviewed me, or we talked after a show. And after you get past the initial coolness, of re-connecting with someone from high school on Facebook or Twitter, you realize you truly have drifted apart.

"And fuckin' A, I'm glad we did.

"I don't want to be 'friends' with everyone; I don't want to be 'liked' by everyone. I want to feel connected to something. And nothing I look at in the music business does that. I don't get radio bands; I don't get any of these fucking 'scene bands.' I don't get bands singing about how great being American is, as if the geographic location you were born, (and had zero control over in any way shape or form), somehow makes us better than any other geographical place of birth!?

"I don't get why people don't want to see live music anymore, I don't get it. Did you see the clip of Hetfield talking about how America needs to start 'wanting' music again? This is James 'Fucking' Hetfield talking, people! Didn't those words do anything to anyone? Didn't what he said make you feel a bit disgusted? I'm a METALLICA fan and those words being spoken kind of stung a bit.

"You can bitch all you want that MACHINE HEAD only does festival tours and only plays for 30 minutes, but all those bands (including us) that play festival tours, can't draw squat when were not on festival tours. And even the big metal festivals are having troubles. Maybe the days of bands touring is coming to an end? Bands didn't always tour, you know, Mozart didn't hit the road for a year or 2 back in the day. Touring is really a phenomenon of the last 60 years or so. People didn't always buy records, or CDs, or files, or streams, that's also a phenomenon of the last 60 or 70 years.

"I don't get the political fucking correctness of music anymore.

"I don't get the narrow-mindedness of the world anymore.

"I don't get people asking me every week to try and write 'more like 'Burn My Eyes', please.'

"I don't get religious nutjobs who think that when they die they're going to 72 virgins when they get to heaven. ('You're guaranteed to get some pussy in the afterlife, boys,' so obviously written by a man!)

"I don't get religious fucking nutjobs who think that Jesus is coming back soon, wearing a white, blood-stained robe (stained with the blood of his enemies…whoever those are) and will be carrying a sword, and by 'sword,' the bible meant an AR-15!

"What did Napoleon say? 'Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.'

"I don't get why we need to hear 'America The Beautiful' and 'thank a soldier' in a TV commercial, 22 and 14 times respectively during the Superbowl.

"I don't fucking get it.

"You don't care about music, and I don't care about music, and I sit here wondering if this feeling is a result of the business itself, or is the business a result of our own apathy towards music.

I feel lost.

"I feel alone.

"Something has to change.

"Someone has to stir the pot.

"Something needs to come along and wake us up out of the slumber."

I'm not concerned about metalsetlists at all. I'm concerned about metal.
Jaco died for our sins so that modern bass players could be free to play more and be heard.
Old 03-20-2014, 02:43 PM
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Natrlhi Natrlhi is offline
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Wow. That was...quite a lot of spewage.

He started off making some good points, but then he went completely off his original topic and lost me with a bunch of random observations that, while a few of them may be true, don't have anything to do with his original point and come dangerously close to making him a hypocrite for slamming self-importance but then getting up on his soapbox and ranting about random ideas and expecting the audience to eat up every word.

Anyhow, I will say this - he's got a point about things being much more restricted nowadays than they used to be. Hell, I get teased for being old around here (although my body isn't really that old, and hopefully my attitude is even younger), but I still remember going to shows that cost six or eight or ten bucks at the most, and went into the wee hours of the night, and people drank and got high and went crazy and stage dived and moshed and security did very little about it. I fucking loved those days.

But then things changed - but not just with metal...with the world itself - and especially in the USA. People in general started getting so uptight about their own rights getting trampled on and wanting everyone to be treated like kings and queens without having to work for anything, and before we know it, everything sucks. People are more selfish and defensive and less free and open - more inclined to screw the other guy "as long as I get mine" and less inclined to help somebody out without expecting anything in return.

The question is, what do we do about it? Do we get on Facebook and whine, and hope that will change the world? Do we treat each other like shit because we're pissed off at a few details?

I say, accept the things we cannot change, and enjoy what freedoms we do have while we still have them. I mean, the big injustices in the world need to be fought against - but times changing and shit getting more expensive and freedoms being limited in the name of safety are all realities that, while inconvenient and perhaps unnecessary, aren't going to change because we sit around bitching about it through our phones and tablets (another point he made that I agree with, and have recently posted about elsewhere on this forum).

My point is simply that I choose to try my best to focus on what's positive and good, and enhance that as much as I can. If I love a certain band or song or album, I blather on and on about it, and try to get my friends to go to shows with me to experience it live. If I like a good movie or restaurant, I tell somebody about it and invite them to try it, too. If I do something else that's fun, I try to tell others about it in the hopes that they can enjoy it, too.

Life is too short to spend time whining about fucking details - especially the ones we can't control. Times change. People change. Rage about it if you want to, preach about it if you want to, and let me know how that works out for you, Robb. In the meantime, I'll be out there trying to suck the marrow out of life while I have the chance, and teaching my kids to do the same.

If we all do that, then I think metal will be just fine. It'll change, but it'll live on - and that's just fine with me.

Last edited by Natrlhi; 03-20-2014 at 02:47 PM.
Old 03-20-2014, 02:47 PM
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mankvill mankvill is offline
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So I guess I'm lumping Rob Flynn into the "thinks "metal" is just super popular old bands" group
1/26 - Inquisition w/ Truckfighters
1/29 - Alcest w/ The Body
2/11 - Marduk w/ Incantation
2/16 - Pain of Salvation
Old 03-20-2014, 03:38 PM
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illuminatus917 illuminatus917 is offline
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Everyone moans there is no money in the music industry. There is less money to reinvest in new artists, there is less risk-taking for new music, less money for artists’ creativity and intellectual property, sales are the be-all and end-all, etc.

The state of live music is in decline, in this country at least, and I don't see how anyone can deny that. If that's your thing, it's not going to have a happy ending.

The state of recorded music is better now than it's ever been before. And most of it is being recorded by guys who work full-time jobs, who understand that producing music without the limiting effects of coercive institutions is the only way to realize true creativity, and that with that sacrifice, unfortunately, comes the consequence of earning a smaller pay check (if any). If you're in a band like Machine Head, tough. Reevaluate your circumstances if creativity is that important to you. If you believe the music business is Grendel, distance yourself from it.

I think metal is doing just fine. Maybe the live aspect in the United States isn't, and maybe it's not the money maker some artists want it to be. But the music itself is.
Never whistle while you're pissing.
Old 03-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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El Gordo El Gordo is offline
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"Bands didn't always tour, you know, Mozart didn't hit the road for a year or 2 back in the day."

Actually Robb, he did.

While there are some valid points to what Mr. Flynn wrote, he comes off as a whiny, self-important douche.
I love inside jokes, I'd love to be a part of one some day.
Old 03-20-2014, 04:48 PM
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DisposableJustice DisposableJustice is online now
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I also agree Robb makes some good points, but in the end Robb can only really control what he does and what Machine Head does

If Machine Head puts in the effort and makes a great album, fans will welcome with open arms for live shows, and from what I have heard or seen on Youtube they are killer live

But whining about it in the end will solve nothing because everything outside of him and Machine Head is uncontrollable, instead he could focus more on rolling with the punches and coming up with creative and solid ways to promote MH
07/02-Guns N Roses
Old 03-20-2014, 09:41 PM
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I was being sarcastic about Wolverine
Old 03-20-2014, 10:32 PM
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SirLardsAlot SirLardsAlot is offline
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Originally Posted by SomewhereInTime72 View Post
...More on topic, I'll throw in my as someone who used to be a frequent poster and is now an occasional/rare poster.

Personally, I have less time to spare to be here. When I joined these forums I was 15, and I had a crapload more of free internet time. Furthermore, my musical interests were more strictly metal, and my other hobbies/interests were quite diminished in comparison. I've become much broader since then.

It's been quite some time, and I spend way less time on the internet than I used to. That's just how life is really, as you get older from being a teenager even your social obligations and such become more time-demanding (that, or I've become leagues more popular .)
Couple that with my broadened interests, and the share of internet time that I want to spend on a community meant for discussing metal - and the specifics of metal discussions here are less 1:1 with my own metal tastes (the 'original' cast of metalsetlists members were chock full of Iron Maiden forum expats - the diversification of members is certainly healthier for this board in the long-run, but personally it does lead to less discussions that I have relevant input for) - is naturally going to be diminished because now I also have more other things I want to be doing with the reduced time I still have (it's also worth noting how long this sentence is.)

Anyway, I figure a similar phenomenon happened to a lot of old posters, but I think what manks said is right. More discussions is really all that's needed, and in the grand scheme of things, metalsetlists is obviously not dying. I've been on dying forums. We may be approaching a bit of stagnation, but we're nowhere near starvation or death.

I'd say I'll help, but I'd probably be lying sorry.
This. I was 17 when these boards opened and I joined. All I did after school was read this forum and the IMBB, and crank music. That was 9 years ago. I hop on here like once a week to check the News section for a few minutes and that's it. I don't really give much time to music any more, nothing new at least, just my same old collection. 95% of the people that were regulars on this board/IMBB when I was very active back then don't post here anymore, and the new guys are typically younger. They have different music tastes, different interests in general, I have no connection with any of them.

Old 03-20-2014, 10:33 PM
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SirLardsAlot SirLardsAlot is offline
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Originally Posted by JRA View Post
Hecho En Mexico

There's probably one or two people I'm forgetting (though I'm not counting the people from that time that I still see post here, like PowerMaiden and powerslave_85 and es_156), but this was the original class of Metalsetlists. And every single one of them are gone now. Frankly I thought the forum would cease to exist without all of the following people to contribute. It didn't. New people just showed up and established themselves. That doesn't usually happen. So in a sense this forum is like The Wall.

I'll say this for you "new" people. Be glad you weren't here during the summer of 2005.
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