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Marilyn Manson -- Santa Ana, CA -- October 29th, 2014
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  #3421  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by slapguitarer View Post
I understand that, but I hate most is when some venues are wishy-washy between all ages events and 21+ events. Of course, I don't understand all the nook and crannies of running a bar, but if you can afford to host some all ages events, why not make them all ages events. Again though, I'm ignorant of what it's like to run that kind of establishment. If anybody can fill me in, that'd be cool.
all ages shows = 80% of the attendees spend $0 at the bar.
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  #3422  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mankvill View Post
all ages shows = 80% of the attendees spend $0 at the bar.
eh, most shows I've gone to that were all ages at bars most patrons were still at least 21 and were drinking. But that's because I have mature taste
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  #3423  
Old 01-19-2014, 11:46 AM
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eh, most shows I've gone to that were all ages at bars most patrons were still at least 21 and were drinking. But that's because I have mature taste
I only listen to MATURE music for MATURE souls such as myself.
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  #3424  
Old 01-19-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by El Gordo View Post
I dunno, children getting hurt is generally bad as well. I'd prefer to not see kids in mosh pits. Also, I suppose you think 12 year-olds should be able to drive and be allowed inside strip joints and casinos? I have a couple cousins who want to live in your world!
That's a somewhat legitimate risk, but do you think putting age restrictions on shows is a legitimate way to deal with that risk? I just think there's better ways of dealing with it than prohibiting all underage kids from attending.

Also, c'mon, man. Prohibiting 12 year olds from driving is completely different than prohibiting them from attending a show. Do you think the risk of letting 12 year olds go to a show is nearly as dangerous as letting them drive?
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  #3425  
Old 01-19-2014, 12:33 PM
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That's a somewhat legitimate risk, but do you think putting age restrictions on shows is a legitimate way to deal with that risk? I just think there's better ways of dealing with it than prohibiting all underage kids from attending.

Also, c'mon, man. Prohibiting 12 year olds from driving is completely different than prohibiting them from attending a show. Do you think the risk of letting 12 year olds go to a show is nearly as dangerous as letting them drive?
So what's your better way of dealing with it? Give kids a fitness test to make sure they can deal with the rigors of a metal show? Base it on facial hair growth? I'd love to live in your concert-goers' utopia, but kids aren't allowed to do certain things for a reason.

And you know what? Based on what I was like when I was 12, behind the wheel probably would be a safer place than a mosh pit for me. I was like 6' and 130 lbs. I would have gotten snapped like a twig in a mosh pit -- I was probably smart enough to control a vehicle in average conditions.

Also, there's that whole liquor license thing that Mankvill mentioned as well. Drunk kids, while entertaining are generally frowned upon. I mean, you could do the age cut-off at some arbitrary age like 16 but then you have to do armbands and security checks at every single show. Keep it simple and just go with the drinking age. Concerts can be dangerous places.
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  #3426  
Old 01-19-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by El Gordo View Post
So what's your better way of dealing with it? Give kids a fitness test to make sure they can deal with the rigors of a metal show? Base it on facial hair growth? I'd love to live in your concert-goers' utopia, but kids aren't allowed to do certain things for a reason.

And you know what? Based on what I was like when I was 12, behind the wheel probably would be a safer place than a mosh pit for me. I was like 6' and 130 lbs. I would have gotten snapped like a twig in a mosh pit -- I was probably smart enough to control a vehicle in average conditions.

Also, there's that whole liquor license thing that Mankvill mentioned as well. Drunk kids, while entertaining are generally frowned upon. I mean, you could do the age cut-off at some arbitrary age like 16 but then you have to do armbands and security checks at every single show. Keep it simple and just go with the drinking age. Concerts can be dangerous places.
Most of these kids we're talking about that are being "discriminated" against in the case of 21+ shows aren't 12. They're in their late teens. Whether or not we should see pre-teens at metal shows is a whole other story. We're mainly talking about 16+ kids at bar shows.
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  #3427  
Old 01-19-2014, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by slapguitarer View Post
Most of these kids we're talking about that are being "discriminated" against in the case of 21+ shows aren't 12. They're in their late teens. Whether or not we should see pre-teens at metal shows is a whole other story. We're mainly talking about 16+ kids at bar shows.
Yeah, granted but what I'm asking is where do you draw the line if you allow 16 year-olds in every show? Then all the 14 & 15 year-olds will get upset! All-ages shows aren't going to happen all the time because promoters/venues make less money off of them and they cost more to run.
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  #3428  
Old 01-19-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by El Gordo View Post
Yeah, granted but what I'm asking is where do you draw the line if you allow 16 year-olds in every show? Then all the 14 & 15 year-olds will get upset! All-ages shows aren't going to happen all the time because promoters/venues make less money off of them and they cost more to run.
This. That is why that hardcore scene here in Chicago has sucked to me the last year and a half.

For a while most venues that could host either all ages or 17+ hardcore shows banned them because of the chaos so the main promoters for the shows booked all hardcore shows at one venue that was only 21+.

Thankfully now one venue has unbanned hardcore shows and they are booking some as 17+ now.

It wasn't because anyone got hurt its because the venues didn't want all the pits and diving.
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  #3429  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by El Gordo View Post
Yeah, granted but what I'm asking is where do you draw the line if you allow 16 year-olds in every show? Then all the 14 & 15 year-olds will get upset!
Alright, that's a good point. You do have to draw the line somewhere... I'd just rather not draw a line at all. Let's just agree to disagree. I'll live in my idealistic utopian fantasy world, and you can live in the real world

However, I will say one thing, that I don't know how many 12 year-olds would want to go to these shows (or if their parents would let them at that age), or if they'll be dumb enough to even enter a moshpit knowing how tiny they probably are.
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  #3430  
Old 01-20-2014, 12:14 PM
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