VH1 Metal Evolution

[makethemsuffer12]

The amount of butthurt in this tiny thread is making my butt hurt.

[Natrlhi]

Originally Posted by makethemsuffer12

The amount of butthurt in this tiny thread is making my butt hurt.

[DethMaiden]

Haven't seen the show, imagine it's stupid and reductive, but won't comment for sure without seeing an episode. However...

Originally Posted by JRA

First of all, what the fuck is wrong with catering to what your fans want musically?

Everything. It defies the nature of art. If everyone did what was expected of them, there would never be any innovation. It's true that the only intrinsic value of a record lies in how it's received, and cultural studies as a discipline has been pretty consistent in saying it's up to the consumer to decide what they take away from a work, but they don't know what to ask for because the stuff that's consistently engaging is the stuff we haven't heard. I'm sure when Black Sabbath was called Earth and playing the blues circuit in Birmingham, their fans (a small number, but for argument's sake, let's say they were all passionately in agreement on this) probably wanted to hear more blues albums, because they were good at the blues. Then they recorded Black Sabbath. Then they recorded Paranoid. They lost their blues-loving locals by Master of Reality, I'm sure. But that doesn't matter. What matters is they got an entirely new fanbase by conjuring up sonic demons and down-tuning. Eventually, they recorded the Dio and Tony Martin albums and the same thing happened. Lose some doom nuts, pick up a whole new group of people who like what they had moved on to. Is this a perfect analogy for, say, Metallica? I suppose not, since what they did was unarguably to become more mainstream, but there's people who loved "Enter Sandman" who would have hated "Metal Militia," and that's okay. We don't have to be those people, but Metallica is allowed to make them exist. A band owes you nothing. If anything, they owe you the freedom to do their own shit, ad infinitum, to help move music as an idea forward. In any given year, most of the albums I truly love are the ones that surprise me the most, the ones that defy my expectations – even (or especially) when they come from artists who I'd expect something different from. Write the album you want to write. Not the one you're pressured to by some people who have trouble envisioning anything better than what you've already done. Fuck them.

[JRA]

Originally Posted by Maiden33

- while getting no further into the real genre than Helloween, Hammerfall, and Blind Guardian.

I wouldn't be so sure, all three of those bands are in his classification of power metal. I think we'll be seeing a couple of interviews with Hansi and Michael.

Originally Posted by ravenheart

Metal documentaries suck.

Someone never watched Get Thrashed.

Originally Posted by DethMaiden

Everything. It defies the nature of art. If everyone did what was expected of them, there would never be any innovation. It's true that the only intrinsic value of a record lies in how it's received, and cultural studies as a discipline has been pretty consistent in saying it's up to the consumer to decide what they take away from a work, but they don't know what to ask for because the stuff that's consistently engaging is the stuff we haven't heard. I'm sure when Black Sabbath was called Earth and playing the blues circuit in Birmingham, their fans (a small number, but for argument's sake, let's say they were all passionately in agreement on this) probably wanted to hear more blues albums, because they were good at the blues. Then they recorded Black Sabbath. Then they recorded Paranoid. They lost their blues-loving locals by Master of Reality, I'm sure. But that doesn't matter. What matters is they got an entirely new fanbase by conjuring up sonic demons and down-tuning. Eventually, they recorded the Dio and Tony Martin albums and the same thing happened. Lose some doom nuts, pick up a whole new group of people who like what they had moved on to. Is this a perfect analogy for, say, Metallica? I suppose not, since what they did was unarguably to become more mainstream, but there's people who loved "Enter Sandman" who would have hated "Metal Militia," and that's okay. We don't have to be those people, but Metallica is allowed to make them exist. A band owes you nothing. If anything, they owe you the freedom to do their own shit, ad infinitum, to help move music as an idea forward. In any given year, most of the albums I truly love are the ones that surprise me the most, the ones that defy my expectations – even (or especially) when they come from artists who I'd expect something different from. Write the album you want to write. Not the one you're pressured to by some people who have trouble envisioning anything better than what you've already done. Fuck them.

The "nature of art" is the biggest strawman argument corporate assholes use to justify a band becoming pussified. Tony Iommi has said the bands response on the blues front was lukewarm at best and it wasn't until they played the song "Black Sabbath" that they not only starting getting fans, but passionate fans. Passionate fans matter more than anybody.

And if a band spends the first 5 years or so of their career shit talking other bands, saying that they're music is cheap poser crap, they absolutely owe everything to their fans. Those were probably good bands they were slamming, and quite a few of their fans were fans of those other bands but turned their backs on them in order to fit in to this new thing. Like when all those hardcore punk bands were talking their shit about the status quo like Fleetwood Mac, most of their fans probably liked all those bands but wanted to fit in, then they start changing direction and sounding more and more like the status quo. Fuck you, if you're holding your dick and saying you are more extreme or whatever, you have no business going in any direction then what your bands perceive you to be. Interviews are just as much a part of the package as much as the music. Let your music do the talking and shut up.

and yes, fans who love Enter Sandman but hated Metal Militia have no business liking the band. That's probably the strongest reason for the frivolous idea of "bands wanting to have a mass audience and make more money being sellouts" exists. Jocks and alphas who probably heard Metal Militia or old Metallica and beat the metal kids up because they were different are now saying "I guess your band is pretty cool now, fag" and going to shows to beat more people up in the moshpit. The masses are by definition a bunch of mouthbreathing bullies, and while I of course I endorse new avenues of exposure in order for fans who might be into that music but not be aware of it to see it, once the people who beat you up or mock you for liking a band start attending the shows, all bets are off.

[elturtleboy]

I really thought he'd have Black/ Death on this season. Hopefully there's a 2nd season which includes Grindcore, Punk, Hardcore, and Crossover. I ain't watching Glam or prog.

[ravenheart]

Originally Posted by JRA

Someone never watched Get Thrashed.

I have it on DVD. It blows.

[adamclark52]

As much as I hate Nu-metal now it was an important part of metals history and deserves an episode. Metal was heavily underground in the mid-90's and nu-metal was a big part of bringing it back to the mainstream. Yes, mainstream bad, but I'm sure it helped all metal artists in terms of touring and sales and just getting the word out. I doubt there are many people here who didn't start their metal journeys with nu-metal or at least enjoy it when it first started. I still love the first two Korn albums, the first Static-X album and the first four Deftones albums(if they are nu-metal).

[JRA]

Originally Posted by adamclark52

I doubt there are many people here who didn't start their metal journeys with nu-metal or at least enjoy it when it first started. I still love the first two Korn albums, the first Static-X album and the first four Deftones albums(if they are nu-metal).

Not me. In the interest of full disclosure I did dabble with Godsmack for a bit. but a) they weren't nu-metal, b) I am 100% sure I would have continued the path I was on regardless of whether or not I liked them.

[dcmetal108]

I am going to go get the first 5 episodes and watch them just to see how they how.

[MPF]

I don't have VH1 Classic so I can't comment or complain, but if it at all comes out on DVD I'll buy it. Sam knows what he is doing, but VH1 does have the control in the end. You can't be too pissed. This is as good as it can get, especially coming from VH1.