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  #21  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:33 PM
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Well I feel the exact opposite. I don't think songwriting can possibly be overrated. That's why this list is 100 Greatest Guitar Players, not 100 Greatest Soloists.
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:35 PM
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Well I feel the exact opposite. I don't think songwriting can possibly be overrated. That's why this list is 100 Greatest Guitar Players, not 100 Greatest Soloists.
Of course it can't. Therefore they belong on a 100 greatest songwriters list. Well, Cobain doesn't, but still. Being able to put the basics together in pleasing ways doesn't make you a great guitar player. It makes you an ordinary guitar player who's also a great songwriter.
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:36 PM
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If you have good guitar playing without good songwriting, you might as well just make instructional videos and not bother with the whole art thing.
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:38 PM
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If you have good guitar playing without good songwriting, you might as well just make instructional videos and not bother with the whole art thing.
Agreed. But they're completely different skills. You can be a great songwriter without being a great guitar player. All of those examples are just that.
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:49 PM
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Also, I really don't understand the idea that Kurt Cobain was a terrible guitar player. Just because he played stripped-down riffs and didn't really solo doesn't mean he wasn't technically competent. If you don't like Nirvana, great, but to make it sound like he played like a 5 year old fucking around in a Guitar Center is patently absurd.
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  #26  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:51 PM
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I'm most definitely on the Ravenheart side of the argument here.

Also, great and Kurt Cobain don't belong in the same sentence. Ever.
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  #27  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:55 PM
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Pete Townsend I consider to be the greatest songwriter ever. He also was not exactly what I like to call a "lead guitar player" in the Hendrix or Page sense, but he absolutely belongs on any 100 greatest guitar players list. And while I did say that he wasn't necessarily a lead player, he still had chops.

Examples of basic songwriters who don't belong on a greatest guitarists list:

Bob Dylan
John Lennon
George Harrison
Johnny Ramone
Paul Simon
Bob Marley

Examples of basic songwriters who should be on a greatest guitarists list

Keith Richards (though he shouldn't be any higher than 90)
Paul Stanley
Jeff Buckley
Pete Townsend
James Hetfield
Tom Warrior
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:58 PM
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Also, I really don't understand the idea that Kurt Cobain was a terrible guitar player.
You don't play guitar, do you?
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  #29  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:02 PM
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I agree that songwriting is a huge trait for someone to have - but it's not a necessary trait. Think of how many great musicians are not songwriters. Is Nicko McBrain a shitty drummer because he doesn't write any songs for Maiden? Certainly not. It's relatively understood that no one person will write all of a band's parts and have them replicated verbatim, so basically anyone in a band is adding their own flavor and color to almost anything they play on.

I just don't think it should be the overruling factor on a list like this. "100 Greatest Guitarists" an "100 Best Songwriters" should be looking at vastly different criteria. A guitar player should not be thought of as LESS of a guitarist because he can't write a great song (lyrics and all). There are great players who can compose amazing guitar solos in songs they didn't "write".

And no, I don't think technical proficiency is everything - but it is something substantial, and no one should even be eligible for a list like this if they were a consistently sloppy player (live and/or in the studio) with a poor understanding of music and composition. Personal touch, emotion, and style are HUGE factors as a guitarist (and I truly believe it's what separates the mindless shredders from the truly great guitarists) - but all the emotion and "style" in the world isn't going to make me think someone with intermediate (at best) skills is "one of the world's best guitarists".
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  #30  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:05 PM
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Examples of basic songwriters who don't belong on a greatest guitarists list:

John Lennon
George Harrison
Really? Jesus, I'm not even a Beatles fan and even I think that's fucking insane.
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