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  #91  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:16 AM
b_halperin b_halperin is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWl22VyUmvU
  #92  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:27 AM
Uncle_Meat1940 Uncle_Meat1940 is offline
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The definitions of "Ignorant"

1. Destitute of knowledge; uninstructed or uninformed; untaught; unenlightened. [1913 Webster]

He that doth not know those things which are of use for him to know, is but an ignorant man, whatever he may know besides. --Tillotson. [1913 Webster]

2. Unacquainted with; unconscious or unaware; -- used with of. [1913 Webster]

Ignorant of guilt, I fear not shame. --Dryden. [1913 Webster]

3. Unknown; undiscovered. [Obs.]

[1913 Webster]

Ignorant concealment. --Shak. [1913 Webster]

Alas, what ignorant sin have I committed? --Shak. [1913 Webster]

4. Resulting from ignorance; foolish; silly. [1913 Webster]

His shipping, Poor ignorant baubles! -- on our terrible seas, Like eggshells moved. --Shak.




Pretty sure I've been using that word in context.
  #93  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:36 AM
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SomewhereInTime72 SomewhereInTime72 is offline
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Wanted to stay out of the shitstorm, but what the hey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenheart View Post
And the way people behave and feel under the influence of drugs is fake. You CANNOT argue that. Their entire point is to create a false feeling, a false perception.

I agree with what you said a page or two ago about how assholes on drugs are normally still assholes off them. Absolutely. What I'm saying is if you need that fake "high" to do whatever it is you're wanting to do. Get through something, enjoy something, enhance something, whatever. It's still fake and you're not tackling the real issue.
LOL. I guess I CANNOT argue that I've never behaved or felt 'fake' under the influence of drugs. When I'm high, I do the exact same things with my friends that I do normally. Though the appreciation I have for things gets increased a bit, I still feel happy hanging out with my friends, and doing things that normally make me happy. Nothing about what I like doing changes; talking to people while playing Geometry Wars or something is still gonna be fun, and sitting around doing nothing is still going to be boring.

But I guess those feelings and behaviors are all fake even though they're the same as my normal feelings and behaviors. I guess my perception is false, because those things that make me happy while I'm high, would obviously leave me upset if I did them sober. Because no one would ever do any drugs if they didn't have issues they were covering up for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenheart View Post
Even something as apparently simple and innocuous and sitting with some good buddies smoking to feel good. Why do you need to do that? What's wrong with you all that you aren't already enjoying yourselves together enough? It may seem like just another recreational thing to do, like playing a video game or spinning an album, but is it? Or is it helping you create a feeling that really isn't there? And if it's not there, why not? Fix it, don't masque it.
Smoking weed never creates new feelings. It merely boosts or dampens things that are already there (just like alcohol! except that one pretty much just boosts). For example: if you're sitting around with your friends, playing some album and smoking, chances are you'll find yourself enjoying the time slightly more than you normally would. If you were doing absolutely nothing, it would probably make you a little less impatient about it. I fail to see what about that is "fake." If you were just hanging out with friends and doing nothing, you could still be happy from the presence of your friends. But putting on some good music to listen to in the background would enhance that feeling, would it not? But I guess music isn't fake because you can't smoke it. (i mean you can't even hold it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenheart View Post
That's how I see it. I normally don't wade into these length arguments because frankly I just don't care what other people's views are on things I've informed myself about and made my mind up on, but I object immediately to being called an idiot when so far I've articulated* my entirely valid** views perfectly well enough.
You sure you did it in that order?

Also:
*Yes, you certainly did.
**No, they certainly are not.

Trying to say you understand the reasons for, motivations for, and effects of something you don't do or deal with is just nonsensical. What you've done is the same as trying to tell someone with severe depression that you know how they feel and understand their position, while never actually having felt that way before yourself. The same as when people who only listen to pop music tell you that metal is all just screaming.

I cannot make any truthful statement about anything of the motivations and effects of cocaine. It would be contrived, and a lie. Fake; as you would say. I cannot possible claim to know anything about that, since it's not something I do. The only thing I can truthfully state is that it's not something I'm interested in. I mean, I won't put down on things I have no grasp on, to make myself seem 'above' it. I already think of myself as better than people, so I don't need to resort to something so "fake" to feel that way.
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  #94  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:39 AM
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DethMaiden DethMaiden is offline
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I don't have a long drawn-out explanation for why I don't care to do drugs. I'm just really not that interested. I appreciate the music, movies, books, and art they've given us, and I pay them back by not wasting any on myself.
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  #95  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenheart View Post
What I'm saying is if you need that fake "high" to do whatever it is you're wanting to do. Get through something, enjoy something, enhance something, whatever. It's still fake and you're not tackling the real issue.

If you need it to be better at something, get fucking better at it. If it's sport or music, train harder, practice more. If it's some personal emotional problem or event, getting high won't fix it. It'll be there when you come down again, and then what? If you don't enjoy the people you're with or the event you're at without getting high, go somewhere else and find better people to be with.

Even something as apparently simple and innocuous and sitting with some good buddies smoking to feel good. Why do you need to do that? What's wrong with you all that you aren't already enjoying yourselves together enough? It may seem like just another recreational thing to do, like playing a video game or spinning an album, but is it? Or is it helping you create a feeling that really isn't there? And if it's not there, why not? Fix it, don't masque it.
100% Agree with everything here.
  #96  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:46 AM
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SomewhereInTime72 SomewhereInTime72 is offline
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@Music blah blah would never be there without drugs blah blah because musicians were high etc.

As someone who has written music extensively under both conditions, I would not really put that much weight into this at all. I don't know about anyone else, but for me it's never anything like "LOL OMG IM SO HIGH *shits a riff*, *repeat until song is written*" The only difference I've noticed during the process of writing is that when high I'm more likely to finish the process in one go, whereas normally it would take me a few days to piece together all of my ideas, because I would get more frustrated and tired of something if I spent too long on it. End-product wise, there's no real difference in any of my compositions.

With the exception of songs directly inspired by drugs, I would say it's safe to say that the same musicians would still have had similar ideas.
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  #97  
Old 04-25-2010, 10:56 AM
Uncle_Meat1940 Uncle_Meat1940 is offline
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I'm so glad you decided to join somewhereintime. I was beginning to think I was the only one who understands.
  #98  
Old 04-25-2010, 11:07 AM
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Chyck Chyck is offline
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Overall, the argument that ravenheart made at 10:54 AM is logical and exactly what I believed before I started smoking. However, some of his points make me sad

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenheart View Post
I know what these substance are, I know how they affect people, and I know why they want to take them. So I'm not ignorant. Capiche?
Some of peoples' irritation may stem from the fact that you have not mentioned if you tried recreational drugs at some point (and if you did, I apologize as I missed it). There is a significant difference between knowing how drugs affect people and knowing how they affect you, specifically. Having that first-person experience moves you from the realm of judgmental into the realm of knowledgeable, in my opinion.

I am not, of course, advocating that you go get high to prove a point. I'm merely theorizing why the word ignorant is getting thrown around so much.

It is difficult for those of us that enjoy cannabis to fathom why someone else wouldn't, which is probably why Cameron and Brad's friends harass them. While they should respect your boundaries, college aged people aren't always tactful nor do all of them have the life experience to know tact is useful. Honestly, the best path in this situation might be to find friends who won't pressure you like that. No one should have to feel like that amongst their peers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenheart View Post
Based on my knowledge of these things I think anyone who, knowing these things too, chooses to still take them, is an idiot.
This sentence probably hurts me more than anything on this thread, because I now know that I can never have a conversation with you without you thinking I am a fool. That really sucks, because I've been looking forward to hearing Exhibit B for months now and talking to you about it when I finally get to experience it in its entirety.

One fact about a person does not a personality make. I would hope that smoking weed wouldn't immediately make you write someone off.

Example of my own prejudice: While trying to warn some very small kids out of the pit yesterday, I noticed a man with the largest White Chapel tattoo I'd ever seen. I despise White Chapel, and (single fact) think their fans are assholes. However, I tend to be pretty non-confrontational in person and so said nothing. 20 minutes later the pit got nasty, and said White Chapel fan threw himself behind the kids to protect them, then helped me convince them to go to a safer place. When I thanked him in the kids' stead, he just shrugged and said that someone had to do it. (Personality) White Chapel fan was a tough but caring individual. I was wrong. He wasn't an asshole.

Yes, that was a bit of a tangent, but I'm just trying to say don't write someone off due to one facet of their personality and life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenheart View Post
Even something as apparently simple and innocuous and sitting with some good buddies smoking to feel good. Why do you need to do that? What's wrong with you all that you aren't already enjoying yourselves together enough?
All I can say in response to this is that it's enjoyable on occasion, and I don't believe that there's anything wrong with it as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Yes, I know it hurts my lungs, but going to shows hurts my hearing. Living kills

Also, as a general point, some of us that enjoy cannabis really do use cannabis because it's fun and feels good, and not as the compensating tool that you believe. This is probably a point that we're not going to resolve.
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  #99  
Old 04-25-2010, 11:20 AM
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