too many bullshit sub-genres

[DethMaiden]

Originally Posted by Maiden33

To me, metal breaks down into a few general categories:

Traditional Metal (takes many forms)
Progressive Metal
Power Metal
Melodic Metal
Thrash Metal
Black Metal
Death Metal

I think there's some others out there, but beyond the ones I listed and a few others I probably forgot because of lack of interest - all bands considered metal are merely a combination or cross-section of influences from these genres. You can break them down into somewhat well-defined subgenres and musical movements if you want - but I basically think 99% of all metal can, to some degree, be classified by using one or two of these genres.

I do appreciate that you believe there's so few genres as I basically agree, but I still don't think there's such a thing as melodic metal. It's primarily a modifier for death metal, but it's not a thing in itself - melodic power metal especially isn't a thing. What does it mean, as opposed to all those disharmonic, unmelodic power metal bands?

[mankvill]

Originally Posted by Maiden33

To me, metal breaks down into a few general categories:

Traditional Metal (takes many forms)
Progressive Metal
Power Metal
Melodic Metal
Thrash Metal
Black Metal
Death Metal

I think there's some others out there, but beyond the ones I listed and a few others I probably forgot because of lack of interest - all bands considered metal are merely a combination or cross-section of influences from these genres. You can break them down into somewhat well-defined subgenres and musical movements if you want - but I basically think 99% of all metal can, to some degree, be classified by using one or two of these genres.

I'm okay with tagging a "melodic" or "technical" or "blackened" onto some of those, but usually not more than one.

also: where da grind at?

[JRA]

Originally Posted by JRA

If I may...


I think the fact that every fucking band that doesn't have a sound like Judas Priest has to have its own sub-genre is exactly what is killing metal. I remember listening to the commentary of get Thrashed and Rat Skates (yes, that Rat Skates) had mentioned that when everything started getting its own title, is when metal died for him, and now that I think about it, I can't help but agree with it. Just calling everything "metal" rather than getting its own name proves how vast and diverse the genre is. Some of you might say that the fact that there's so many sub-genres essentially the same thing, but the thing is, by giving a title for what you do, you're essentially trapping yourself in a corner, because when you decided to try something different, metal fans (open minded as they are) will turn their back on you.

As for terms like NWOBHM, I don't know who came up with that term but fuck them for doing so. It doesn't even really describe a sound, it's just telling you where the band came from! When you think about it, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, and Def Leppard were 3 completely different sounding bands, they all just happened to be from Britain. Wouldn't it have been easier for the music press to simply call that movement "the second generation of Heavy Metal?" Cos that's essentially what it was.

In conclusion, Opeth > faggot-ass sub-genres.

Originally Posted by ravenheart

I think sub-genres were necessary when you couldn't listen to stuff instantly on the web. There needed to be SOMETHING to tell people what a band sounded like. Fans of Iron Maiden are not necessarily going to be fans of Venom, so to call both simply 'metal' really wasn't going to help anyone.

Now we can just tap into MySpace and sample pretty much any band for free, it's a lot less necessary because we can decide for ourselves far easier, and far cheaper.

Originally Posted by Div

yep. one of my friends met his girlfriend last semester, neither of them know much about metal, but there was one kid named matt who lived on their floor who was "metal" that would hang out with them alot. he just listened to black/death metal, mostly shitty bands like satyricon and dimmu borgir. i saw a picture of him on facebook one time, had his hair dyed black and gel'd up in 5 inch spikes, behind him was a big poster that just said "HEAVY FUCKING METAL" on it, and he was doing the "mega horns" (make a fist with each hand, stick your pinky fingers out, then move your hands together). i also heard he hates maiden because he says bruce is a "sellout" (wtf? )

point of all this being, douchebags like this go around giving people impressions of metal, and it turns them off to looking into it further. i played overkill's "old school" in the car on the way to the movies last night and his girlfriend commented "wow that was really good, much better than anything matt ever played".

[Maiden33]

Originally Posted by Fires Of Sedition

Not every song is metal, I just selected all and typed Metal.

It's cool. I'm not really surprised Brad felt the need to make that comment anyway.

I don't even pay attention to genre as I'm putting things on my player, because it doesn't make a difference to me. It's funny the way it mislabels stuff - I never knew before that Seventh Wonder was Soul/R&B or that Edguy was "World" music.

[Div]

Originally Posted by JRA

EDIT: o shit, forgot you made a post about this too. well its good to know im not alone on this

[mankvill]

Oh yeah, labelling something "Norwegian/Swedish/Gothenburg/Brazilian" whatever is stupid as well.

[DethMaiden]

Re: the original intention of the thread, it's certainly not necessary to give all kinds of labels to things - like I said, all the metal in my iPod is labeled as "Metal" - but when you're reading about an album, if you have some idea of what a ridiculously named subgenre actually sounds like, it can help you decide if the record is something you wanna check out. It's basically the next best thing after "sounds like (insert band)".

[JRA]

Originally Posted by Div

EDIT: o shit, forgot you made a post about this too. well its good to know im not alone on this

The thing is, your previous post seemed to be made in argument of why I shouldn't be complaining. Then to see you posting about it was like being slapped across the face with the John Holmes penis of irony.

[Maiden33]

Originally Posted by DethMaiden

I do appreciate that you believe there's so few genres as I basically agree, but I still don't think there's such a thing as melodic metal. It's primarily a modifier for death metal, but it's not a thing in itself - melodic power metal especially isn't a thing. What does it mean, as opposed to all those disharmonic, unmelodic power metal bands?

See, you're stuck in thinking that "melodic" is only a modifier - which to me it is not.
There are many, many things I listen to that I don't consider anything else but "Melodic Metal" - best defined by bands with a very 80s, Hard Rock, AOR-inspired vibe. See: Pink Cream 69, Jaded Heart, I could expand the list but honestly you've probably never heard ANY of the bands so I don't expect you to really "Get" it through experience. The "Allen/lande" albums fall into this category too. They are NOT power metal, and I refuse to hear them categrized as such - they are their own genre, bridging a gap between AOR/Hard Rock and Traditional/Power metal - "Melodic Metal".

Now, obviously "Melodic" is also a modifier, most used in terms of "Melodic Death Metal". I personally don't even really use the term "Melodic Power Metal" - because I do believe it is a somewhat bullshit term that doesn't make much sense. I do however use "Melodic Progressive Metal" - because I think it is the best way to describe bands that are very technically intricate - but mostly stick to writing shorter, more accessible songs with a traditionally progressive sound, style, and technicality.

[Fires Of Sedition]

Originally Posted by Maiden33

It's cool. I'm not really surprised Brad felt the need to make that comment anyway.

I don't even pay attention to genre as I'm putting things on my player, because it doesn't make a difference to me. It's funny the way it mislabels stuff - I never knew before that Seventh Wonder was Soul/R&B or that Edguy was "World" music.

Samesies. I've gotten death metal songs labeled "Pop/Rock" before