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  #21  
Old 09-14-2010, 05:04 PM
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makethemsuffer12 makethemsuffer12 is offline
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The problem with that logic is the riffs suffer, and they suffer horribly. When you hear a riff and love a riff it becomes part of your DNA. Speed changes don't bother me so much and it can actually become beneficial to the song (see Unleashed In The East for a primary example). Key and melody changes however, are unignorable. Melody and key is the essence of song, and the problem with key shifting is that it hits some truly atrocious notes and the songs become unlistenable. 2112 sounds like a fucking mess when it's downtuned. Same with The Mob Rules. I was actually happy I missed that song when I went to see Heaven & Hell because that riff sounds like its being raped. and it's not just tuning down. I was watching a 78 Sabbath show and rather than having guitar techs doing their job and tuning separate guitars for the appropriate songs, they just played everything in standard. Children of The Grave, my all time favorite Sabbath song, was unlistenable in this key.

Also, if voices go through so many goddamn changes, then why the hell was Rob Halford able to nail every single note on the Judas Priest songs on Live Insurrection, when he was fucking 50?

Like I said, either you play the song in the right key, or you stop touring, it's as simple is that (or in Geddy Lee's case, he can just sing that song in a pirate voice ) Honestly, I could care less how singers sound in old age, but when you fuck with the riffs, that's capital punishment grounds.
I think someone needs to fucking relax.
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  #22  
Old 09-14-2010, 06:41 PM
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DethMaiden DethMaiden is offline
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I think someone needs to fucking relax.
Agreed. But he won't. Being a stickler about stupid shit in live performances is his favorite pastime. Whatever, I'll go headbang and enjoy myself at shows, and you can stand in the back and whine about how it doesn't sound like it does on the CD.
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  #23  
Old 09-14-2010, 06:41 PM
300%_Density 300%_Density is offline
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Pretty sure I read stuff the last few years that Halford isn't hitting the notes like he used to either. Neither one deserve to catch shit for it to begin with. Ozzy gets hated on b/c people hate Sharon therefore its cool to hate Ozzy apparently while nobody would say anything about Halford. I love them both and greatful they are still doing it.

How can you make a case using a live album when we all know there is no editing or overdubbing going on (heavy sarcasm). Listen to him doing Painkiller on the Touch of Evil live cd a few years ago. You can hear his voice isn't quite there but he's well into his 50s at this point. How horrible, he's changing his tuning so he can still perform in front of people that still want to see him. I can't think of anything worse than that.
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  #24  
Old 09-14-2010, 06:45 PM
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Another good set from Ozzy. Hopefully he comes around these parts when he does the tour with Halford. I probably would have gone anyway, but sets like these makes it a definite.
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  #25  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:10 PM
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Let me put it this way, if you were seeing Deep Purple in concert, and the notes to the riff of Smoke On The Water were in a completely different key, people would riot. Same thing for Iron Man. I don't see why I should feel any different about any other song. I suppose when an artist is too old to sing in the proper key he's too old to be on stage.

And Brad, unlike you, I have standards
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  #26  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:24 PM
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Playing tuned down is usually fine as long as it's not stupidly more (more than a step) or Seek and Destroy. Tuning up never works. Listen to anything Priest did with Ripper live, the Halford material sounds fine but the stuff in C is neutered. Tuning up 1.5 steps would sound unbelievably shitty. Furthermore, any band that actually uses different tunings can afford to have multiple guitars for the different tunings.

EDIT: This goes triple for anybody playing arenas.
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  #27  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:25 PM
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And Brad, unlike you, I have standards
Keep your standards. I'll have fun.
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  #28  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:28 PM
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Heres another example, say the tuning that band plays the song in sounds better than the version that's on the album? Then your completely fucked because your memory of that can only last so long and your love of that song is completely tarnished for ever because it will never again be as good as that version. Unless they release a live album of that tour or something.


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Originally Posted by Dissimulate View Post
Playing tuned down is usually fine as long as it's not stupidly more (more than a step) or Seek and Destroy. Tuning up never works. Listen to anything Priest did with Ripper live, the Halford material sounds fine but the stuff in C is neutered. Tuning up 1.5 steps would sound unbelievably shitty. Furthermore, any band that actually uses different tunings can afford to have multiple guitars for the different tunings.

EDIT: This goes triple for anybody playing arenas.

This is usually what I'm referring to. A half step isn't too bad but Ozzy fucking downtunes like 3 steps. And you're dead on with Seek & Destroy. Goddamit that song sounds horrible now. Why the fuck do they tune it that low? Hetfield has never sung a single high note in his life.
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Last edited by JRA; 09-14-2010 at 07:31 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:42 PM
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  #30  
Old 09-14-2010, 08:17 PM
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makethemsuffer12 makethemsuffer12 is offline
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Originally Posted by JRA View Post
Let me put it this way, if you were seeing Deep Purple in concert, and the notes to the riff of Smoke On The Water were in a completely different key, people would riot. Same thing for Iron Man.
You do realize that most people at these concerts probably wouldn't even realize if it wasn't played in the original key, right? Not everyone has a trained ear or a knowledge of music. There were certainly no riots when Iron Man and Paranoid were played an ungodly whole step down (oh noooooo) at Ozzfest this summer.
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Originally Posted by JRA View Post
Heres another example, say the tuning that band plays the song in sounds better than the version that's on the album? Then your completely fucked because your memory of that can only last so long and your love of that song is completely tarnished for ever because it will never again be as good as that version. Unless they release a live album of that tour or something.
Not necessarily. I thought Arsis' "We are the Nightmare" sounded better in Eb live as opposed to standard E on the album, but does that mean that I would listen to the studio version with disgust? Hell no.
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This is usually what I'm referring to. A half step isn't too bad but Ozzy fucking downtunes like 3 steps.
Ummmm, no he doesn't. he only tunes to D live.
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