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  #111  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom View Post
omigod...not that shit again.....Man causes war with man.....get that through your fucking head.......WAR IS BAD, OKAY....BUT SAYING THAT THE EXISTENCE OF WAR IS PROOF OF THE ABSENCE OF GOD IS JUST ABSURD!! Blame man for war...not God.

And war isnt even a scientific law...so your comment is invalid...

I'm not saying I don't believe in God, because I'm pretty sure I do. I'm saying Christianity is usually annoying because it tries to justify things that it has no right to justify. Keep religion and science separate. If it's taught as science, it's science. There is no conspiracy to keep God down, they're just teaching what has been, through testing, considered most likely true. Christianity doesn't research what it says, it just says it.
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  #112  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:48 AM
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I'm not saying I don't believe in God, because I'm pretty sure I do. I'm saying Christianity is usually annoying because it tries to justify things that it has no right to justify. Keep religion and science separate. If it's taught as science, it's science. There is no conspiracy to keep God down, they're just teaching what has been, through testing, considered most likely true. Christianity doesn't research what it says, it just says it.
I dont think religion should be taught either....But I am saying....science should taught....but the theory of evolution has too many holes in it to be taught as fact..it should be presented as a possible explanation, not pure fact....thats all I'm saying.
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  #113  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:48 AM
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I dont think religion should be taught either....But I am saying....science should taught....but the theory of evolution has too many holes in it to be taught as fact..it should be presented as a possible explanation, not pure fact....thats all I'm saying.
Fair enough.
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  #114  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:51 AM
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On gravity -- that's exactly my point. There's no problem with you believing that gravity is caused by God. That may be reasonable and it may be true. But it sure as hell isn't science.

Yes, scientific progress means that theories get disproven regularly -- when better science comes along. Not when people simply decide they'd prefer to believe something else. Again, you can prefer to believe something else, and you may even be right -- but it isn't science.

No one ever observed a T Rex eating a Triceratops either, but scientists know it happened. Obviously, scientific observation can be indirect.

You should look at the theory critically and with skepticism. Of course you should. In fact, that's what good scientists always do, and have done ever since Darwin wrote The Origin of Species. I mean, it's not like people instantly embraced his conclusions; people dismissed him as preposterous! He didn't even publish his findings for over a decade because he was terrified of how people would react. But after continual reexaminations of the evidence over the past century, scientists have -- through their skeptical, critical assessment of the evidence -- come to conclude that he basically had it right.

GRAVITY IS SCIENCE!!!!! OKAY??? I am not saying it isnt science....I belive most of the explanation as to how things happen.....but there is no explanation as to why!! I am not saying God is physically pushing every single object down and it is called gravity...that is Dark Ages science.....but I cant grasp the idea that things just happen by chance.......thats if faith..to say things just happen....


I cant even think right now, to formulate the right words to explain or comprehend your sense of closemindedness and bigotry, when you say that "gravity is science, we can explain it, God does not exist." Your view of Christianity and religion as a whole just as "I dont know how it works, so God did it" is so outdated and idiotic.....No one believes that in the civilized world anymore. Today's Christian can accept the explanation of science, of gravity, of weather, of adaptation, of erosion, of nuclear physics, etc and still put some faith in a higher being....there is no harm in it....Like I said...the educated Christian can say that the "Occurence" is the what, Science is the how, and God is the why....a theory that can neither be proven entirely or disproven entirely...JUST LIKE MACROEVOLUTION!

Last edited by ChildrenofSodom; 03-12-2007 at 11:56 AM.
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  #115  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom View Post
GRAVITY IS SCIENCE!!!!! OKAY??? I am not saying it isnt science....I belive most of the explanation as to how things happen.....but there is no explanation as to why!! I am not saying God is physically pushing every single object down and it is called gravity...that is Dark Ages science.....but I cant grasp the idea that things just happen by chance.......thats if faith..to say things just happen....


I cant even think right now, to formulate the right words to explain or comprehend your sense of closemindedness and bigotry, when you say that "gravity is science, we can explain it, God does not exist." Your view of Christianity and religion as a whole just as "I dont know how it works, so God did it" is so outdated and idiotic.....No one believes that in the civilized world anymore. Today's Christian can accept the explanation of science, of gravity, of weather, of adaptation, of erosion, of nuclear physics, etc and still put some faith in a higher being....there is no harm in it....Like I said...the educated Christian can say that the "Occurence" is the what, Science is the how, and God is the why....a theory that can neither be proven entirely or disproven entirely...JUST LIKE MACROEVOLUTION!
Dude. Calm down. Where do you get closemindedness and bigotry out of what I'm saying?

I never said there is no God. I don't know if there is or there isn't. Frankly it has nothing whatsoever to do with our discussion. It's not a scientific question. That's not to say it's not a valid question, okay? And I never said you are wrong to think there's a god in the world, or that he's responsible for what's happened. I mean, what's wrong with (for instance) the idea that God sparked some inert matter into life aeons ago using a precise mechanism that would unfold logically over time into us? You can believe that if you wish, and square that belief with the facts that science has revealed. Science will never prove there is no god, and it will never prove there is a god -- because the question of God is simply not subject to proof, observation, or empirical assessment. Okay? In this way the question of God is fundamentally different from the question of whether human beings descended from apes (or birds descended from dinosaurs, or whatever). Because we can check the fossil record and DNA maps for evidence that supports or refutes the theory. God isn't a theory. It's a belief. They aren't at all the same. To point this out is not bigotry -- surely you can understand that?!?

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a dick here. Why are you calling me a bigot?
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Last edited by zgodt; 03-12-2007 at 01:41 PM.
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  #116  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom View Post
when you say that "gravity is science, we can explain it, God does not exist."
EvilCheeseWedge's Lesson of the Day (tm): When you use quotation marks " " you are relating to us the words of what somebody else has said. It is usually to wise to put words that the person being quoted actually said in between those quotation marks.

Tomorrow's lesson will be on drawing conclusions. Wednesday we'll learn why calling people "bigots" without backing it up does nothing to strengthen an argument.

Stay tuned
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  #117  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by EvilCheeseWedge View Post
EvilCheeseWedge's Lesson of the Day (tm): When you use quotation marks " " you are relating to us the words of what somebody else has said. It is usually to wise to put words that the person being quoted actually said in between those quotation marks.

Tomorrow's lesson will be on drawing conclusions. Wednesday we'll learn why calling people "bigots" without backing it up does nothing to strengthen an argument.

Stay tuned
Oo! Oo! Can Thursday's lesson be why not to bang a chick while she's on the rag if you faint at the sight of blood?
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  #118  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:36 PM
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Oo! Oo! Can Thursday's lesson be why not to bang a chick while she's on the rag if you faint at the sight of blood?
I haven't prepared my lesson plan that far ahead, but I don't see why not
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  #119  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom View Post
I dont think religion should be taught either....But I am saying....science should taught....but the theory of evolution has too many holes in it to be taught as fact..it should be presented as a possible explanation, not pure fact....thats all I'm saying.
What holes?

It's not "a possible explanation," it's the only available explanation that doesn't rely on non-scientific conjectures or mythology*.

"Pure fact" is unreasonably absolutist. It should be presented as the best available scientific explanation for the facts we can observe. It shouldn't be supplemented with so-called "alternatives" that are derived from non-science. Intelligent design may be perfectly acceptable as theology or philosophy; and it may even be true. But it can't, for example, help researchers develop new medicines; however, a proper understanding of evolutionary biology can.

(*mythology not meaning "untrue" but in the academic sense of inherited stories used by a people to explain their world.)
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  #120  
Old 03-12-2007, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ChildrenofSodom View Post

A law is something that can be observed in nature......no one has ever observed one species becoming another species.....until that happens, I will look at the theory critically and with skepticim. There are too many holes in the presentation of industrial melanism, the fossil records, the theory of vestigal organs, and speciation for the theory of evolution to be forced down the throats of our children.
Um. People define what a species is. As humans, we decide which mutations make one species different then another. So, the only reason that the observation of speciation may or may not exist is if we choose to accept certain structural changes as becoming a new species.

..And you know what... here : http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

I've kept quiet this whole time, but I'll just say there's a hell of a lot more holes in your argument then there are in the theory of evolution.
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