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View Full Version : The "Heavy Metal Tier list" (A sort-of statement of fact in progress)


JRA
03-21-2009, 02:25 PM
Foreword: While it would be fine and dandy if everyone could just like what they like without hassle, and that the genre of metal would conform to the music instead of the music conforming to descriptions of the genre, the truth is, that’s never gonna happen. The idea of what bands are “better than others” and such is talked about on a subconscious level all the time in metal circles. What bands are universally hated, universally loved, to the point that if one smart ass punk tries to be the minority and says “hey, I don’t think these guys are (that great/that bad)”, fanboys will come out of the wood work and throttle you (who I have dubbed and will refer to as the "True Metal Police,” or TMP). So, I have decided to submit for discussion, a “Heavy metal tier list.” Kinda like the Super Smash Bros. Brawl tier list on the smash boards for the tourney fags. Each tier represents how high of a standing each band has within not only metal circles, but with outsiders as well. But because this list is based on the subjective silliness of street credibility, it’s the self-important metal police who have the final say in who’s hot and who’s not. Each band in each tier is in order from most relevant to least relevant (depending on the tier determines whether or not they are good or bad), so if Death is above Dio, you can bet your Hammer of Thor that Death is regarded higher by metal circles than Dio. This list is meant to be somewhat comprehensive, informative, and humorus. So while I expect this to start violent and angry discussion in which at least three people are banned (myself excluded of course ), that doesn’t mean you can’t get a chuckle or two.

One thing to note is yes, this is more biased to the 80’s than any other decade. Most of the people who were around then do in fact think this was the golden age of metal. Hell for some of you old farts around here, this might be trip through high school and various arguments you may have had with each other And while Nirvana did not actually wipe everything out in 1992, the fact is, that’s when most people who grew up with metal got old, got married, got fired, and in general just stopped caring about the newer bands. So the true metal bands of the 90’s great as they may be, just won’t be as regarded highly as Maiden or Priest. People are fucking weird you know?


Anyways, without further ado...


The Heavy Metal tier list:

I. The Golden Gods (if you don’t at least respect these bands, you are not metal)

Black Sabbath (Ozzy)
Metallica
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest



II. Top Tier (bands who if you declare out loud that they suck, the True Metal Police will be up your ass)

Motorhead
Megadeth
Slayer
Black Sabbath (Dio)
Dio
Mercyful Fate


III. Manowar
Manowar *

*Manowar get their own tier because of split fan reaction. On the one hand you have people that sing their praises as the best ever, and that if you don’t like them “you aren’t metal” but on the other side, you have people who think they are the worst band ever, and those people will say that if you do like them, then “you aren’t metal.”


IV. 2nd Tier (bands who if you declare out loud that they suck, the TMP will not care)

Ozzy (solo)
Venom
Anthrax
Helloween
WASP
Exodus
Testament
Overkill
Queensryche
Savatage
King Diamond
Fates Warning
Blind Guardian
Candlemass
Rainbow


IV. Hard-rock bands that kick ass, but aren’t quite metal:

Led Zeppelin
Deep Purple
AC/DC
Van Halen
Rush
KISS
Queen
Thin Lizzy
UFO
Motley Crue
Guns N Roses

*These bands are a bit more digestable, and therefore acceptable by the mainstream. You’ve probably had the conversation with someone where you tell them you like heavy metal, and then the other person says, “oh that’s cool, I like Zeppelin, AC/DC, etc.” This basically says to the metal fan “I like the sound of heavy rock music, but I’m way too cool to be caught listening to Slayer, so I’ll just stick with the pedestrian stuff.” For whatever reason, these bands just aren’t that “metal” in the eyes of the true fans (not necessarily the TMP). Not saying that these aren’t great bands, but they just not metal.

Va. Top tier Extreme bands *

Death
Celtic Frost
Bathory
Hellhammer
Carcass
Sepultura (1985-1991)

Vb. Middle Tier extreme bands

At The Gates
In Flames (early)
Possessed
Kreator
Immortal
Mayhem
Morbid Angel
Cannibal Corpse (nobody in their right mind will admit out loud these guys are better than anyone)


*Most people write off bands who sing in an aggressive a-melodic style and whose music is the least accessible of all. This tier represents all the quality bands, but they’re just “too heavy” for the casual folks.


VI. Bands that wrote great songs, but ruined it for everyone *

Pantera
Rage Against The Machine

* Most bands today either sound like 4th rate RATM or Pantera ripoffs, and the majority retard fans wouldn’t have it any other way. Pantera and Rage are both quality bands, but let’s face it, if they never existed, modern metal would be completely different today.



VII. Middle tier (Bands that would be enforced by TMP as bands that are “Cool to like” but nobody important has heard of them)

Sleep
High On Fire
Neurosis
Isis
Cynic
Om
Boris
Sunn 0)))))
Harvey Milk
Trap Them




VIII. Low Tier (Modern bands that the more “in the now” TMP officers approve of, and the rest of the TMP will only like them on a good day, {but on a bad day, the TMP will skullfuck your ass})

Mastodon
System Of A Down
Children of Bodom
Opeth
Arch Enemy



IX. Gay ass hair metal

Dokken
Ratt
Warrant
Poison
Slaughter
Extreme
Everybody else from the 80’s that isn’t WASP, Motley Crue, or Guns N Roses



X. Fruity fairy power metal (apologies to Maiden33 )

Kamelot
Iced Earth
Hammerfall
Amon Amarth
Nocturnal Rites
Nightwish
Nevermore
Edguy
Symphony X
Dragonforce




XI. Bottom of the barrel (gay ass Ozzf-core bands that TMP will kill you for liking)

Machine Head
Lamb Of God
Shadows Fall
The Haunted
In Flames (new)
Hatebreed
God Forbid
Chaimara
Killswitch Engage
Job For A Cowboy
Soulfly
Slipknot


XII. Stupid gay eyeliner shit

Nine-inch Nails
Ateryu
Marilyn Manson
Avenged Sevenfold
Dope
Kittie



XIII. Date rape music (seriously, if you like these guys, get AIDS)

HIM
Linkin Park
Korn
Disturbed
Limp Bizkit

DethMaiden
03-21-2009, 02:38 PM
A few things: yeah, this is definitely biased against modern metal, which I don't think is necessarily fair, but given the purposes of this system, I can understand it. Also, if Tier VII exists, I think it could have dozens if not, indeed, hundreds of bands that Decibel Magazine and the internet would place there. And some of your "fruity fairy power metal" bands aren't really even power metal, so I dunno about that. Otherwise, this took some serious thought and boredom, so I'll give kudos where kudos are due. :rocker:

JRA
03-21-2009, 02:46 PM
A few things: yeah, this is definitely biased against modern metal, which I don't think is necessarily fair, but given the purposes of this system, I can understand it. Also, if Tier VII exists, I think it could have dozens if not, indeed, hundreds of bands that Decibel Magazine and the internet would place there. And some of your "fruity fairy power metal" bands aren't really even power metal, so I dunno about that. Otherwise, this took some serious thought and boredom, so I'll give kudos where kudos are due. :rocker:

As unfair as it seems, I did say this list was "somewhat comprehensive" as in "I want this to be big and long, but not big and long to the point that nobody would want to read it." Which is exactly what would happen if I tried to include everybody.


One thing I should mention is this tier list occurred to me on the fly while I was working in my dad's yard today. I didn't want to give it too much time or extensive thought beyond a couple of hours, because by then it would take too much time which I don't have to post it.

overkiller
03-21-2009, 03:13 PM
I don't get it.

JRA
03-21-2009, 03:15 PM
I don't get it.

Fans are basically always bickering every day on what's "true metal," what bands most fans hate (for whatever reason), what bands you will get shit for saying you don't like them, and I tried to throw something together that explains that.

I suppose you'd understand it more if you saw the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tier list (or other tier lists of fighting video games).

mankvill
03-21-2009, 03:38 PM
BORIS AND HIGH ON FIRE RULE!

:flame::finger2:

rjturtle9
03-21-2009, 04:00 PM
haha that list is comedy win. kudos for coming up with something like that.

TonyD
03-21-2009, 04:18 PM
I hope that Mastodon and Opeth in VIII are part of the joke.

Either way, since you put Motley Crue in tier II, most of the list is void.

ChildrenofSodom
03-21-2009, 05:41 PM
This is the gayest thing ever. Stick to the Peter North pictures, kid.

Div
03-21-2009, 06:14 PM
get metallica the fuck out of top tier

other than that id agree with alot of those rankings as far as metal is concerned. i wouldnt have made so many categories tho.

EDIT: personally, id only put two bands/musicians in god tier as far as my personal favorites go. but i still agree with yours.

DethMaiden
03-21-2009, 06:17 PM
I don't think he meant this to represent him in any way, rather, "metalheads" as a group. As such I think the rankings are good. Mine would of course be radically different.

ravenheart
03-21-2009, 06:21 PM
This is farily accurate. I've been saying for a long time that the continued popularity of the likes of Maiden and AC/DC is because they occupy some kind of upper echelon of rock where it's cool to like them even though they're old.

However, I have a few MAJOR disagreements, from a general perspective, not necessarily my own rankings of bands:

Nevermore fairy power metal? Have you even listened to them?

The same applies to Symphony X, Kamelot, and Opeth is the metalcore group.

Alice Cooper, Led Zeppelin and possibly Scorpions are missing from II.
Skid Row are missing from either II or IV.
Clutch are missing from VII.
HIM are missing from XII

Rainbow belong in II rather than IV.

You've almost entirely forgotten a few bands without whom metal would be very different:

Stuck Mojo
Cathedral
Diamond Head


Where the hell are Accept, Alice In Chains, Dream Theater, Testament and King's X?


And finally, in a moment of genuine personal opinion, Soulfly, Slipknot, Lamb of God and Machine Head deserve a lot more respect that the TMP afford them.

Div
03-21-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't think he meant this to represent him in any way, rather, "metalheads" as a group. As such I think the rankings are good. Mine would of course be radically different.

well in that case, yea they'd be up there, metalheads in general give way too much credence to metallica. personally id rank megadeth above metallica any day.


EDIT: Agent Steel and Metal Church arent on your list.

JRA
03-21-2009, 06:32 PM
personally id rank megadeth above metallica any day.


As would most "True Metal Tards" (myself included) but this is a dispute I want no business having now.

HIM are missing from XII


:lol: :lol:

Listen guys, I am well aware that there are plenty of bands missing, Metal Church, Diamond Head, and Testament being three of them. But the thing is, I didn't want to make this list so long that it becomes a chore to read it, so some concessions need to be made here and there.

That being said, I am thinking about adding a couple of tiers, one being "Thrash bands that Ultraboris thought were shit," and maybe dividing the extreme tier into two or three seperate tiers.

I actually want to post this list on other forums I visit and ruffle a few feathers, but considering I've only put 2-3 hours work into it, I don't think this is quite ready yet. So consider this thread a sandbox.

I have a feeling that nobody understands my "Super Black Metal" joke. Allow me to illuminate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QascXwq-fws&feature=related


The difference? Bathory = Super Black Metal, everybody else = merely "black metal."

Edit: I've also give entries to "Vegetarian Progressive Grindcore" and "Lounge." :D

Also, Ravenheart, sorry but anybody who writes a song called "Jumpdafucup" is automatically mallcore fodder. Shit I should put Soulfly in the nu-metal section (i.e.Date Rape) for that alone!

mankvill
03-21-2009, 08:12 PM
in b4 15 page long argument

rjturtle9
03-21-2009, 08:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QascXwq-fws&feature=related


The difference? Bathory = Super Black Metal, everybody else = merely "black metal."

Edit: I've also give entries to "Vegetarian Progressive Grindcore" and "Lounge." :D



haha i saw that video before, but the music was different

Maiden33
03-21-2009, 09:20 PM
IV. 2nd Tier (bands who if you declare out loud that they suck, the TMP will not care)
Gamma Ray

IX. Gay ass hair metal
Yngwie Malmsteen

X. Fruity fairy power metal (apologies to Maiden33 )
Iced Earth
Amon Amarth
Nevermore


While I disagree with a lot of this, I had to particularly address these.
-Gamma Ray are not that popular to belong where you put them, you just generally have a hard-on for them. If you're going to elevate another power metal band out of the "Fruity Fairy Power Metal" category, it should be Blind Guardian, not Gamma Ray.

-Yngwie is NOT "Gay Ass Hair Metal". Clearly Yngwie had some commercialized 80s music, but I've said it before and say it again. Just because you had a few hits with poppy choruses from 1983-1989, does not mean you are a hair metal band. Have you heard any of Yngwie's post-80s albums? Facing the Animal is fucking fantastic, and absolutely not hair metal in any way.

-Iced Earth is not power metal. They are basically just traditional metal/half-thrash with a lot of ballads. You can call them gay all the live-long day if you wish, but calling them power metal is off-base. The other two bands I selected that you put into this category are just massive WTFs.

Div
03-21-2009, 09:26 PM
yea, i dont get why people always hate on amon amarth and call them things like "poser viking metal"

ChildrenofSodom
03-22-2009, 07:12 AM
yea, i dont get why people always hate on amon amarth and call them things like "poser viking metal"

People hate on Amon Amarth? I'LL SLAY THEM!!

SomewhereInTime72
03-22-2009, 11:03 AM
-Iced Earth is not power metal. They are basically just traditional metal/half-thrash with a lot of ballads. You can call them gay all the live-long day if you wish, but calling them power metal is off-base. The other two bands I selected that you put into this category are just massive WTFs.
From what I've heard from talking to people, most people would consider Iced Earth to be gay power metal or something along those lines, even though I pretty much disagree.

Also, it occurs to me that Helloween should be divided into like two bands, Helloween (early) and Helloween (Deris), because while they'll approve of Helloween, the "TMP" will come out and start calling you an idiot/poser/etc if you say you like the Deris albums.

edit: Also I forgot to mention this yesterday, but I love tier VI - it's so fucking true. There should be more bands there. :D

JRA
03-22-2009, 01:22 PM
From what I've heard from talking to people, most people would consider Iced Earth to be gay power metal or something along those lines, even though I pretty much disagree.

Also, it occurs to me that Helloween should be divided into like two bands, Helloween (early) and Helloween (Deris), because while they'll approve of Helloween, the "TMP" will come out and start calling you an idiot/poser/etc if you say you like the Deris albums.

edit: Also I forgot to mention this yesterday, but I love tier VI - it's so fucking true. There should be more bands there. :D

Actually, Helloween (Deris) would stay in the same tier as old Helloween, because latter Helloween is still stuff the TMP don't care about.


Any other suggestions for Tier VI? Because those were the only two bands I could think of. Now that I think about it, I wonder if Helloween should go in Tier VI, considering that's what most power metal sounds like? :eyes:

JRA
03-22-2009, 01:35 PM
Update: I whiddled down tier V and added a new tier all together! :D

TonyD
03-22-2009, 01:46 PM
You've almost entirely forgotten a few bands without whom metal would be very different:
Stuck Mojo


LAWL


And "Stupid Gay Eyeliner Shit" doesn't really help your case. Anyone that knows what's been going on the past 10 years can label that goth.

SomewhereInTime72
03-22-2009, 02:50 PM
goth.

:confused: :wtf:

ravenheart
03-22-2009, 03:06 PM
Any other suggestions for Tier VI? Because those were the only two bands I could think of.

White Zombie?

JuuKun
03-22-2009, 04:26 PM
While, on the whole I got a few laughs, I feel the need to comment on a few things:

-Considering that Slaughter of the Soul is considered one of the first Melodeath albums, I think At the Gates probably belongs in Va, not Vb. But that's debatable. I don't know who else got to see ATG touring last summer, but in Worcester EVERYONE around me was talking about how long they'd waited for this show, and the crowd absolutely exploded when the band came on.

-I also disagree with Possessed being in Vb instead of Va, but that's personal taste, so disregard this.

-HOW are Mastodon, Opeth, CoB, and Arch Enemy "Gay ass Ozzfest metalcore bands". While CoB have put out two less than stellar albums in a row now, none of them play metalcore. Saying Opeth is metalcore is down right ridiculous, and I think your so-called True Metal Police would beat YOU for saying that :D. I understand their placement together on the list, though I think their tier should be COMPLETELY renamed, and SOAD removed from it.

-Nevermore are not power metal. More like Prog/Thrash.

-Also, probably the BIGGEST wtf on this list: Amon Amarth as a "fairy power metal band"? Are you on crack?

Oh, and Skid Row should definitely be in II or IV.

JRA
03-22-2009, 05:05 PM
White Zombie?

Enh, except is anybody really influenced by Rob Zombie nowadays? If anything he belongs in tiers 10, 11 or 12?

While, on the whole I got a few laughs, I feel the need to comment on a few things:

-Considering that Slaughter of the Soul is considered one of the first Melodeath albums, I think At the Gates probably belongs in Va, not Vb. But that's debatable. I don't know who else got to see ATG touring last summer, but in Worcester EVERYONE around me was talking about how long they'd waited for this show, and the crowd absolutely exploded when the band came on.

-I also disagree with Possessed being in Vb instead of Va, but that's personal taste, so disregard this.

-HOW are Mastodon, Opeth, CoB, and Arch Enemy "Gay ass Ozzfest metalcore bands". While CoB have put out two less than stellar albums in a row now, none of them play metalcore. Saying Opeth is metalcore is down right ridiculous, and I think your so-called True Metal Police would beat YOU for saying that :D. I understand their placement together on the list, though I think their tier should be COMPLETELY renamed, and SOAD removed from it.


The thing is, the term "metalcore" doesn't necessarily mean "combination of metal and hardcore" as much as it means "shitty band that played shitty metal." At least that's how I feel the "True Metal Police" would use it. While Mastodon and Arch Enemy aren't, in the pure sense of the word "metalcore" they did in fact play on Ozzfest. The thing about Ozzfest, is while they started out as a purebred metal festival, they also pretty much kickstarted the entire career of nu-metal: Limp Bizkit, Korn, Linkin Park, Mudvayne, Slipknot, and a hoist of others. Basically, because of this, if you went on Ozzfest, you were blacklisted as "nu-metal," "metal-core," "mallcore" or whatever term the TMP were using to describe you as "terrible." Any band that went on here now had to work twice as hard to prove themselves to the elitist status quo.

As for Opeth, they were Ultraboris's #0 band. That alone also "blacklists" you. Then there's Bodom, who while they have never been on Ozzfest, and are actually loved by Ultraboris (or at least Hatebreeder was), the fact is, the production and keyboards on some of their albums were a little too slick and techno-ish at points, therefore, music for Hot Topic and "mallcore." As much as I'd love to move Bodom up a tier or two, the fact is, they have a pretty polarizing reception in the metal community.

In regards to At The Gates and In Flames, both were slammed by Ultraboris, but I've heard plenty of praise and influential acclaims from people, (plus, I myself to like some ATG songs), so I put them in the middle "extreme tier."

SomewhereInTime72
03-22-2009, 05:39 PM
-Also, probably the BIGGEST wtf on this list: Amon Amarth as a "fairy power metal band"? Are you on crack?
.

Well there can't really be another tier just for "fairy viking bullshit" can there? ;)

ravenheart
03-22-2009, 06:19 PM
Ultraboris'

Is that the dude who writes the painfully shit reviews?

ADD
03-22-2009, 07:01 PM
The TMP approves of the first post :cool:

JRA
03-22-2009, 07:24 PM
Well there can't really be another tier just for "fairy viking bullshit" can there? ;)

You know, I always thought "viking metal" was an extremely stupid term. I refuse to acknowledge or even use it. Viking metal = power metal in my not so humble opinion. BUTT VIKINGS WER REEL! Yea, and so were kings, knights, swords and castles. Yet they are considered part of the same medieval "fantasy realm" that vikings themselves also occupy. Therefore I call viking metal, power metal.

Is that the dude who writes the painfully shit reviews?

You may think they were painfully shit, but Boris had a slavering legion of /b/ tards taking all of his reviews as commandments (myself included at one point :snivel:)


The TMP approves of the first post :cool:

:party: :party: :party: :party:

mankvill
03-22-2009, 08:49 PM
Viking metal = power metal in my not so humble opinion.

Mithotyn - King Of The Distant Forest

would like a word with you

Fe Maiden
03-23-2009, 08:12 AM
:tp: Good Grief! Where do I start? The Scorpions are sorely missing from your list!

Labeling groups of bands as GAY or FRUITY is:hecho:

I've said before and I'll say it again----If it sounds good to you and your own ears listen to it and enjoy and who gives a fuck what genre it is in or what anyone else thinks?!

:allan:

overkiller
03-23-2009, 09:02 AM
I'm just not sure this whole thing says anything comprehensible or worthwhile at all.

Fe Maiden
03-23-2009, 09:24 AM
I'm just not sure this whole thing says anything worthwhile at all.I agree there!

ravenheart
03-23-2009, 12:13 PM
You may think they were painfully shit, but Boris had a slavering legion of /b/ tards taking all of his reviews as commandments (myself included at one point :snivel:)

I think that validates my point ;)

Div
03-23-2009, 02:26 PM
i, for one, think alot of ultraboris' reviews are pretty accurate. i also very much agree with his arguments about metallica.

JRA
03-23-2009, 03:46 PM
i, for one, think alot of ultraboris' reviews are pretty accurate. i also very much agree with his arguments about metallica.

My favorite line by him ever is "British Steel is remembered for the wrong reasons. 'Breaking The Law' and 'Living After Midnight' are not the be-all end-all of Judas Priest."

Div
03-23-2009, 04:05 PM
well those are the only priest songs the radio will play so thats all most people ever hear.

zgodt
03-23-2009, 04:45 PM
Labeling groups of bands as GAY or FRUITY is:hecho:

Yes. I am hoping that JRA is channeling the alleged voice of the TMP there, rather than his own.

JRA
03-23-2009, 04:58 PM
Yes. I am hoping that JRA is channeling the alleged voice of the TMP there, rather than his own.

:dorky:

zgodt
03-23-2009, 04:58 PM
As one of those old-school 80s metalheads, I think the list shows Ozzy (solo) ranked too low. At least his first Randy Rhoads era work and possibly the Jake E. Lee era too -- in those days Ozzy was still a contender for top of the metal game, along with Priest, Maiden, and Metallica. He's tarnished his reputation among the TMP with his wife's antics, his reality show, etc., and his work with Zakk Wylde represents a steep drop in quality from his earlier output. But nevertheless, if Tier I is to represent the metal divinity based on historical significance, then Ozzy belongs.

I wonder what it says about the metal community that three of the five bands you have listed in Tier VIII as "Gay-ass Ozzfest metalcore bands" ( :hecho: ) are among the most interesting/innovative/unclassifiable bands to emerge in metal over the last 10 years. If metal is about orthodoxy, there's no greater sin than to be unorthodox.

Oh, and Motley Crue so totally belongs in hair metal. Are you telling me that metalheads by and large respect these douches?

zgodt
03-23-2009, 05:01 PM
:dorky:

Don't make me break those teeth, choadhead. :hmm:

SomewhereInTime72
03-23-2009, 05:17 PM
If metal is about orthodoxy, there's no greater sin than to be unorthodox.

Members of the metal subculture generally always want more and more of the same. :tongue:

DethMaiden
03-23-2009, 05:48 PM
I think this whole thing basically proves that the TMP are really lame if they exist. :lol:

JRA
03-23-2009, 05:57 PM
As one of those old-school 80s metalheads, I think the list shows Ozzy (solo) ranked too low. At least his first Randy Rhoads era work and possibly the Jake E. Lee era too -- in those days Ozzy was still a contender for top of the metal game, along with Priest, Maiden, and Metallica. He's tarnished his reputation among the TMP with his wife's antics, his reality show, etc., and his work with Zakk Wylde represents a steep drop in quality from his earlier output. But nevertheless, if Tier I is to represent the metal divinity based on historical significance, then Ozzy belongs.

Oh, and Motley Crue so totally belongs in hair metal. Are you telling me that metalheads by and large respect these douches?

a) That's actually a very interesting point, considering that Metallica's sins with the TMP are worse than Ozzy's, yet their still in top tier. I guess the point is if someone were to flat out say "I hate any and all Metallica" as opposed to "bla bla bla Ozzy," I think you'd at least be looked at cross-eyed for the former.

b) More-so than you think. I've actually gotten yelled at for someone for saying they suck a few years back, but I still wouldn't consider them that essential (plus Nikki Sixx's ego doesn't deserve it ;) ).

es156
03-23-2009, 07:21 PM
I think this whole thing basically proves that the TMP are really lame if they exist. :lol:

Don't say that too loud..... :eyes:

es156
03-23-2009, 07:33 PM
As one of those old-school 80s metalheads, I think the list shows Ozzy (solo) ranked too low. At least his first Randy Rhoads era work and possibly the Jake E. Lee era too -- in those days Ozzy was still a contender for top of the metal game, along with Priest, Maiden, and Metallica. He's tarnished his reputation among the TMP with his wife's antics, his reality show, etc., and his work with Zakk Wylde represents a steep drop in quality from his earlier output. But nevertheless, if Tier I is to represent the metal divinity based on historical significance, then Ozzy belongs.

Oh, and Motley Crue so totally belongs in hair metal.

I would agree with both of these statements. Ozzy pretty much ruled the 80's and was probably more popular during those years than Sabbath, Priest or Maiden. He was definitely more popular than Metallica in the 80's. They really didn't take over the scene until the Black Album hit in 1991.

es156
03-23-2009, 07:39 PM
I would also say that Motorhead should probably be in tier III. I don't think they deserve the same rank as the other bands in tier I.

ravenheart
03-24-2009, 02:36 AM
My favorite line by him ever is "British Steel is remembered for the wrong reasons. 'Breaking The Law' and 'Living After Midnight' are not the be-all end-all of Judas Priest."

While I think most of the stuff I've read by him is retarted, this is true. British Steel should be remembered for 'The Rage'.

JRA
04-11-2009, 09:41 AM
So I've done a little re-arranging to the list (in preparation for posting it on the other sites), and I'd like some last minute feedback, bands that I've missed, in the wrong tier, etc. Thanks.

overkiller
04-11-2009, 10:00 AM
So I've done a little re-arranging to the list (in preparation for posting it on the other sites), and I'd like some last minute feedback, bands that I've missed, in the wrong tier, etc. Thanks.

My last-minute feedback would be that you shouldn't post it to any other sites. It's just bad.

ChildrenofSodom
04-11-2009, 10:10 AM
My last-minute feedback would be that you shouldn't post it to any other sites. It's just bad.

haha

TonyD
04-11-2009, 12:21 PM
My last-minute feedback would be that you shouldn't post it to any other sites. It's just bad.

Yes. Seriously.

Mancubus
04-11-2009, 06:42 PM
Why the fuck are The Haunted and Lamb of God listed as metalcore?

LoG was only metalcore on BTP and NAG and became groove metal with breakdowns on ATPB. There is very little that's -core about them anymore.

And The Hunted are Thrash. Yes, Dolving is a hardcore vocalist but other thrash bands have had hardcore vox in the past. The Haunted are only as -core as Slayer, Municipal Waste and SoD. Also releasing a thrash album in 1998 is a gutsy move that no band would have expected to get famous by doing. In fact, they only get signed to Earache since Anders Bjorler still had contractual obligations from when At the Gates broke up. NOBODY ELSE wanted to play thrash in '98.

Seriously, what's so bad about either band. You can make the argument that LoG is incredibly trendy right now but The Haunted's supporting acts right now are shit. When you're touring with The Agonist who are the absolute bottom of the barrel crap and your original acts dropped off the tour to play with Mastodon, you aren't trendy AT ALL. Yeah, Dolving does make pointless rants about noting on Blabbermouth, but that says nothing about the music. Moreover, The Haunted actually reply to fan mail that they get on Myspace instead of having their label run it and that shows that they care about their fans way more than most bands today.

Oh, and LoG is trendy since they were -core when they were signed to Sony and therefore have major label backing. Soundwise, they don't have the epic sung choruses that most trendy bands have these days. LoG is it's own trend since they are NO LONGER metalcore and certainly aren't part of the folk metal/gothic metal/deathcore/or neo thrash trends going around right now.

Calling both bands -core jsut for playing at Ozzest means that you should also call SYL and Meshuggah -core as well. Oh, and some metalcore and deathcore is actually enjoyable. The Dillinger Escape Plan, Winds of Plague, Divine Heresy, Converge, The Red Chord, Protest the Hero, Between the Buried and Me, Unearth, Psyopis, and Job for a Cowboy are actually likable. (I'm including JFaC since they're EXTREMELY good live and no longer -core). Those bands are nowhere nearly as bad as Killswitch Engage, Suicide Silence, Waking the Cadaver, Whitechapel, The Devil Wears Prada, The Acacia Strain, The Agonist, Shadows Fall, Trivium, All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, August Burns Red, or Atreyu (or anything else in the genre for that matter since I've heard so much bad -core that I could go on forever.) Point being, not all metalcore sucks.

Not all power metal sucks. Some of it is certainly better than other power metal. For instance, Savatage, Firewind and Kamelot have a lot more credibility to me than Dragonforce, Fairyland or Rhapsody of Fire do.

Cradle of Filth should also have it's own tier since they truly suck that much. It isn't even because their new stuff is overrated as fuck, but even the old stuff that people say was so much better simply wasn't.

Also, the tiers should be ranked by genre since Death, Morbid Angel and Emperor are just as legendary to me as Sabbath and Zeppelin who birthed the genre. If people can't handle Mayhem or Atheist but can take Judas Priest and AC/DC, that doesn't mean that they are the better bands.

Divide the tiers into: early metal, death metal (Scar Symmetry gets own tier at bottom), black metal (again, CoF get their own tier at the bottom), thrash metal, metalcore (waking the cadaver goes in their own bottom tier since they can't even be called music), grind, industrial metal (don't put any industrial nu metal in here like Static X or Manson, just the real stuff like Ministry, Anaal Nathrakh and The Berzerker. nu metal bands should never be mentioned by name again), glam metal (please put poison in their own bottom tier) etc...

JRA
04-11-2009, 07:54 PM
Cool, more debate! :party:

In regards to The Haunted: http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=325#147

Ultraboris is/was a high ranking officer of the True Metal Police, and 8 times out of 10, what he says is law to them. So if he thinks the Haunted is not the true resurgance of thrash, then they are not.

Lamb Of God are low tier because of the fact that they are a 4th rate Pantera ripoff (hence Pantera ruining it for everybody), and their singer is one of the worst things to happen to metal.

For power metal, yes I recognize that Kamelot and Savatage have higher credibility than other power metal bands, which is why they are ranked higher than others (Kamelot may be in that tier, but they are the #1 band in that tier, therefore, they are the best of that group).

And while it is true IRL that if mainstream audiences can't handle extreme bands, it doesn't make them worse than the likes of Priest and Maiden...it does in this particular case. This is a ranking list composed by the supposed "elite of metal" with a little bit of help from the mainstream. Like it or not, but music does need sales to survive. No sales = no record deal. No record deal = death of art form. And while extreme metal has survived all these years God bless it, it would be doing a little bit better if the masses weren't so afraid of ugliness in music.

In regards to your genre argument, I don't really want to make this into a genre list. For two reasons 1) while it might be something the True Metal Police would do, I have no interest in ranking one sub-genre of metal higher than another. 2) I also have no interest in making another damned sub-genre list.

SomewhereInTime72
04-11-2009, 08:09 PM
post

I've seen many many horrible bands live. Job For A Cowboy was the worst by far.

JRA
04-11-2009, 08:22 PM
JFAC are so bad, I just but them in the "Gay ass Ozzcore" tier! :D

ChildrenofSodom
04-11-2009, 08:28 PM
Boris can suck a dick. The M-A crowd are a bunch of douches. Love the site, but get a life.

SomewhereInTime72
04-11-2009, 08:30 PM
Boris can suck a dick. The M-A crowd are a bunch of douches. Love the site, but get a life.

Thought you meant the band for a second, was about to e-rape you.

JRA
04-11-2009, 08:30 PM
Boris can suck a dick. The M-A crowd are a bunch of douches. Love the site, but get a life.

They also probably makeup a majority of the TMP. Fuck, maybe I should post this list there. The forum would probably explode! (and subsequently go down for another week or two :D).

ChildrenofSodom
04-11-2009, 08:49 PM
(and subsequently go down for another week or two :D).

The bain of my existence!!

ChildrenofSodom
04-11-2009, 08:49 PM
Thought you meant the band for a second, was about to e-rape you.

Hell no, man. I love Boris.

Div
04-11-2009, 09:43 PM
Boris can suck a dick. The M-A crowd are a bunch of douches. Love the site, but get a life.

i disagree

alot of his reviews are on the level and generally entertaining to read.

Maiden33
04-11-2009, 09:46 PM
The whole list is just generally a joke. There's a lot you have right, but there's certainly a lot that you can't begin to treat like fact. I really detest ANYONE who acts like they are somehow able to look at everything from an omniscient godlike perspective with knowledge of everything and no bias. It's really pretentious garbage. I disagree far more with the principle of you even doing this than I do about anything on the actual list, as much as I hate some of that.

SomewhereInTime72
04-11-2009, 10:29 PM
The whole list is just generally a joke. There's a lot you have right, but there's certainly a lot that you can't begin to treat like fact. I really detest ANYONE who acts like they are somehow able to look at everything from an omniscient godlike perspective with knowledge of everything and no bias. It's really pretentious garbage. I disagree far more with the principle of you even doing this than I do about anything on the actual list, as much as I hate some of that.

:confused: It's not his opinions...

TonyD
04-11-2009, 11:17 PM
I've seen many many horrible bands live. Job For A Cowboy was the worst by far.

Maybe you're just too cool. I hate their music but I've seen them on two separate package tours and they played live good enough to make up for it.

Mancubus
04-12-2009, 06:14 AM
Ultraboris is a hack. He hasn't written a review in years and hates Morbid Angel and Faith No More but likes Cradle of Filth. In fact, his method of reviewing was by comparing everything to how much it sounded like Dark Angel. Anybody who says Pete Sandoval has no talent shouldn't be taken seriously.

Also, isn't the idea of metal opposition to bad faith and being yourself? Creating a personality cult = not metal if not an outright secular RELIGION based upon someone who's real name you don't even know. the only reason why people taker him seriously is taht he hated almost anything not made in the 80s.

Also, I thought that Kerry King of Slayer who has defined what is means to be metal by putting out kickass music (as long as Dave Lombardo is in the band. No comment about the albums without him) was teh voice of the TMP. Yeah, he trashed LoG which makes it fine to keep it in the low tier, but he only hated the NU Machine Head albums since that's when he started trashing Flynn.

In short, UltraBoris is just some guy behind a screen who designs signs for a living. In fact, he never listened to any black metal that wasn't CoF, Hellhammer, Venom, Bathory, or Dimmu Borgir (who are the most recognizable names in BM after Mayhem which means that he never delved into the genre) so he can never be Tr00 ion my eyes. If he wrote reviews trashing Emperor, Enslaved, or other second wave BM bands that's fine with me but he also reviewed DB after they started focusing more on riffs and an orchestra rather than atmosphere which means that PEM wasn't even black metal. (And neither was COF.)

Oh, and Euronymous WAS the king of TMP until Boris came by and usurped the title from this long dead (great) man who hated everything to do with the death metal genre and called Deicide a commercial band simply for playing overseas. He was THE close-minded prick who defined a style and also came across as a lot more intelligent than Boris does because he didn't make nonsensical puns.

Also, you need to move all melodeath to low tier since it isn't sufficiently thrashy because Boris hated that genre (except Dissection and Arch Enemy which he thought were just okay).

Point being, The Haunted are not -core (nor do they suck. I didn't like MMDI since it was Anders and Jonas trying too hard to relive AtG but they're otherwise solid to me) and Boris is an idiot who's opinion means so much less to me that Euronymous or Kerry King (and Varg loses credibility due to hating metal fans and killing Euronymous). And anyone who can track down Boris and get him to review Windir, Xasthur, or Summoning will get props from me.

mankvill
04-12-2009, 07:10 AM
I dunno what you guys are talking about, but Boris rules. Anyone else pick up Smile?

JRA
04-12-2009, 07:11 AM
:confused: It's not his opinions...

Thank you, it's ultimately supposed to be a look at an abstract collective. Therefore, I don't think I'm that egomaniacal to try and examine it.

Maiden33
04-12-2009, 08:15 AM
Thank you, it's ultimately supposed to be a look at an abstract collective. Therefore, I don't think I'm that egomaniacal to try and examine it.

Yes, but there are many parts of that list that you clearly just assembled due to personal bias. There are things on that list that are actually wrong. Even if the bands assembled in all the tiers are appropriate (a good number of which are not), you can't even begin to claim that the levels in which you ordered them have anything to do with anything else than your own personal opinion. Also, using terms like "Gay ass hair metal" and "Fruity fairy power metal" aren't helping you gain any respect points.

ChildrenofSodom
04-12-2009, 08:37 AM
If not personal bias, from the opinions of an internets toughguy.

I dont think this flow chart or tier list or whatever is serving any really innovative function. I mean, the chart from Metal: A Headbangers Journey does an excellent job of breaking metal down. This looks like something funny to post on a forum to get some laughs from people who hate certain kinds of metal (flower metal) and love other kinds (anything made in the 80s by 'popular' metal bands.) I dont think this warrants anything more than a slight chuckle, and certainly not any sense of achievement, innovation, or objectivity.

SomewhereInTime72
04-12-2009, 12:14 PM
Maybe you're just too cool. I hate their music but I've seen them on two separate package tours and they played live good enough to make up for it.

I dunno man. Worst guitar tone ever, pig squeals, breakdown after breakdown and every song sounding the same... I couldn't take it. I stood off to the side wishing I didn't have ears for about an hour. The only band that may have been worse was Bullet For My Valentine, now that I think of it.
long post that I don't want making my post longer with

Well, I understand not liking Ultraboris and all, I mean I've agreed with him probably only very rarely. However, I do say that his opinions often line up with, or even influence many members of "the metal police," so I think using him as a sort of basis for this sort of thing is not so terrible a concept.I dunno what you guys are talking about, but Boris rules. Anyone else pick up Smile?
One of my favorite bands now. Smile and Cloud Chamber were both in my top 5 albums of last year. :cool:

Yes, but there are many parts of that list that you clearly just assembled due to personal bias. There are things on that list that are actually wrong. Even if the bands assembled in all the tiers are appropriate (a good number of which are not), you can't even begin to claim that the levels in which you ordered them have anything to do with anything else than your own personal opinion. Also, using terms like "Gay ass hair metal" and "Fruity fairy power metal" aren't helping you gain any respect points.

Well, I can't really say anything to agree or disagree with the first parts of what you said, but in terms of the "fruity fairy power metal" terms and the like: as much as I disagree with them (lots of bands I love fall into that category, not so much hair metal but whatever), I have definitely heard metalheads use those terms. It's not so inaccurate to say that many people have that perception. :(

megapoooooosstttttt

Maiden33
04-12-2009, 12:30 PM
Well, I can't really say anything to agree or disagree with the first parts of what you said, but in terms of the "fruity fairy power metal" terms and the like: as much as I disagree with them (lots of bands I love fall into that category, not so much hair metal but whatever), I have definitely heard metalheads use those terms. It's not so inaccurate to say that many people have that perception. :(

Well I'm just saying that if this was meant to even somewhat be taken seriously and as more of statement-of-fact than just a massive list of opinions, any form of adjectives showing favoritism was a horrible idea. It's not that it's making fun of music I love, because he also picks on a lot of music I hate. I just think it was a really stupid idea to use terms like "fruity", "gay", and things like that when you are trying to assemble a serious statement that you are trying to argue has any ties to fact.

Mancubus
04-12-2009, 01:02 PM
Oh, and where the FUCK is Morbid Angel? I get that this is the hypothetical UltraBoris tier list and he hated that band, but most metalheads LOVE MA.

Morbid Angel is the second most influential death metal bands after Death and Everything from Alters up until Formulas is a classic. (Gateways had some cool moments and atmosphere and Heretic had a good guitar tone but neither were as good as the first 6 with Entangled in Chaos being a kickass live album that IMO rivals the ones put out by Priest and Pantera.) And Trey Azagthoth is a great guitarist who puts just as much technique into his soloing as Eddie Van Halen and Dimebag (RIP). You can't strike these guys from the tier list becasue of UltraBoris. Labeling The Haunted as metalcore pisses me of to no end (since there is NOTHING wrong with liking that band) but removing MA from the record is simply inexcusable and if you don't include MA in the top tier of extreme acts you desarve to be thrown into a................. MAZE OF TORMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dun dun dun dun dun dun waka wow wow wow waka waka wow wow wow wow :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:

JRA
04-12-2009, 01:24 PM
"Metal-core," because its a term thrown around way too much anyway, is used in this list as an insult more than anything else.

I also added Morbid Angel to the Middle Tier.

I should also add that I am no longer going to call this a "statement-of-fact" even though I had already preempted that with a sort-of (fucking retards).

ChildrenofSodom
04-12-2009, 03:00 PM
I should also add that I am no longer going to call this a "statement-of-fact" even though I had already preempted that with a sort-of (fucking retards).

Could you be any more ambiguous, please? You're obviously trying to push this as fact...your 'sort-of' isnt worth a lick.

And i think someone mentioned it earlier, but doesnt it seem very 'unmetal' to say that something is truly 'metal' based solely on the opinions of some lame internet nerds? Metal should be about individuality and free expression, and not '7 out of 10 of us hate it, so it must be terrible. Fact'

JRA
04-12-2009, 03:18 PM
You're obviously trying to push this as fact...



Yes and No. But more no than yes.

ChildrenofSodom
04-12-2009, 03:55 PM
Yes and No. But more no than yes.

I mean, re-reading your intro paragraph, it would make sense if you said 'here are some bands that Ultraboris likes, and doesnt like'...but I feel you're presenting it more of 'this is how metal works.' You're acting like a microphone for M-A.

JRA
04-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Not everything Ultraboris hates is low tier:

Example: Opeth and old In Flames.

ChildrenofSodom
04-12-2009, 05:29 PM
Yeah..but why didnt you just post it where The Metal Police hangout?

JRA
04-12-2009, 07:44 PM
Cos this was only a first draft, I wanted some feedback on it first, so I used this website as a sandbox.

ChildrenofSodom
04-12-2009, 07:54 PM
Cos this was only a first draft, I wanted some feedback on it first, so I used this website as a sandbox.

o ok

JRA
07-18-2010, 05:08 PM
I necromanced this because I think it's a relevant key in regards to which bands' setlists to post and whose setlists not to post. The "Hard Rock" tier I think is as far as people should go. I mean, yea Deep Purple and Thin Lizzy aren't exactly "metal" but I don't think anybody is going to complain about them being posted here.

Dextrimental
07-18-2010, 05:12 PM
In fairness, I think Lady Gaga is crossing the line.. But I don't really mind what setlists get posted anyway, most people here don't listen to JUST metal anyway.

JRA
07-18-2010, 05:30 PM
In fairness, I think Lady Gaga is crossing the line.. But I don't really mind what setlists get posted anyway, most people here don't listen to JUST metal anyway.

I mean, I love Billy Joel and The Rolling Stones, but if I saw their setlists posted here, I'd be like...:eyes:


Well truth be told, at first I'd be like:party::party::party::party:

but then I'd be :eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

Dextrimental
07-18-2010, 05:53 PM
I mean, I love Billy Joel and The Rolling Stones, but if I saw their setlists posted here, I'd be like...:eyes:


Well truth be told, at first I'd be like:party::party::party::party:

but then I'd be :eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

Well, true, but those guys, specially the stones, influenced most metal anyway..

I don't think theres any way of regulating what gets posted, just leave it be, theres common sense used ove half the time at the very least anyway.

Maiden33
07-18-2010, 05:57 PM
The problem is not one of personal discretion, because just about everyone here has that. Obviously no one posting here is mindfucked enough to believe that lady Gaga is remotely metal in any way/shape/form. I've been here long enough to realize how this trend works. Every year or two, something comes along that is blatantly un-metal, and a small group of people (usually led by Brad, no offense) latches onto it, and for some stupid fucking reason they just insist on turning it into this big "open-mindedness" war, which it just doesn't need to be. It's not that they're trying to claim it's something it's not, it just turns into this stupid: "Well let's stick it to those close-minded ass holes who only like metal" war which is just about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen.

JRA
07-18-2010, 06:32 PM
The problem is not one of personal discretion, because just about everyone here has that. Obviously no one posting here is mindfucked enough to believe that lady Gaga is remotely metal in any way/shape/form. I've been here long enough to realize how this trend works. Every year or two, something comes along that is blatantly un-metal, and a small group of people (usually led by Brad, no offense) latches onto it, and for some stupid fucking reason they just insist on turning it into this big "open-mindedness" war, which it just doesn't need to be. It's not that they're trying to claim it's something it's not, it just turns into this stupid: "Well let's stick it to those close-minded ass holes who only like metal" war which is just about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen.


:lol: :fist:

Dissimulate
07-18-2010, 08:17 PM
This is overall good, nothing major that I'd change really.

Natrlhi
07-19-2010, 12:08 PM
The problem is not one of personal discretion, because just about everyone here has that. Obviously no one posting here is mindfucked enough to believe that lady Gaga is remotely metal in any way/shape/form. I've been here long enough to realize how this trend works. Every year or two, something comes along that is blatantly un-metal, and a small group of people (usually led by Brad, no offense) latches onto it, and for some stupid fucking reason they just insist on turning it into this big "open-mindedness" war, which it just doesn't need to be. It's not that they're trying to claim it's something it's not, it just turns into this stupid: "Well let's stick it to those close-minded ass holes who only like metal" war which is just about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen.
Yeah, because it's all about you. We "open-minded" folks just love to sit around and think of ways to piss you off, because we don't have anything better to do. :rolleyes:


EDIT: Hey Brad, I think they're finally getting hip to our plot to change the entire world into open-minded music lovers!

Maiden33
07-19-2010, 12:20 PM
Yeah, because it's all about you. We "open-minded" folks just love to sit around and think of ways to piss you off, because we don't have anything better to do. :rolleyes:


EDIT: Hey Brad, I think they're finally getting hip to our plot to change the entire world into open-minded music lovers!

I wasn't talking about me specifically in any way. When this stuff happens it becomes a number of people vs. a number of other people. :tp:

Wizzbang11
07-19-2010, 12:23 PM
I would make massive changes to the extreme metal section.

Natrlhi
07-19-2010, 12:27 PM
I wasn't talking about me specifically in any way. When this stuff happens it becomes a number of people vs. a number of other people. :tp:

The again, I'm not really expecting you to know exactly what I'm talking about, being that you've only been here less than a year and a half.

When I said "you" it was the proverbial "royal 'you'" that I was using, but you went ahead and assumed it applied to you and you alone, which is precisely what you often do. So even though I meant "you close-minded ass holes who only like metal" when I posted my comment, you took it personally as per usual. Go figure. Because like I said, it's all about you. We're all out to get you, you know. We really are. You should just make good on your repeated threats to leave and just do it one of these times.

...or have I not been here long enough to have read at least two of those?

Puh-lease. That was the weakest argument I've seen from you yet.

That all you got?

Wizzbang11
07-19-2010, 12:38 PM
The problem is not one of personal discretion, because just about everyone here has that. Obviously no one posting here is mindfucked enough to believe that lady Gaga is remotely metal in any way/shape/form. I've been here long enough to realize how this trend works. Every year or two, something comes along that is blatantly un-metal, and a small group of people (usually led by Brad, no offense) latches onto it, and for some stupid fucking reason they just insist on turning it into this big "open-mindedness" war, which it just doesn't need to be. It's not that they're trying to claim it's something it's not, it just turns into this stupid: "Well let's stick it to those close-minded ass holes who only like metal" war which is just about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen.

You know for once I agree with you 100%.

That said I like Lady Gaga more than most of the music here so I don't really care, but if this is metalsetlists she along with Blink 182, Ben Folds and whatever else is always posted here doesn't really belong. Oh well.

mankvill
07-19-2010, 12:57 PM
Blink 182, Ben Folds.

hey fuck you buddy

Wizzbang11
07-19-2010, 01:03 PM
hey fuck you buddy

Hey, I said 'oh well'.

They are clearly not metal though.
:)

mankvill
07-19-2010, 01:36 PM
Hey, I said 'oh well'.

They are clearly not metal though.
:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brErUo3exDE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6behxER33-c&feature=related

get out ho!