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JRA
03-03-2009, 11:27 AM
So yea, I finally manned up to do this, but I have a specific topic up for discussion, the supposed mixed reception to Somewhere In Time by the metal underground.

Let's get this right out of the way, metal fans are, for the most part fickle and assuming teenagers, who have very little interest in the music itself, and are more or less looking for the most "br00tal" thing around. In 1981-82 when Maiden first hit the underground American concious, they were more or less the heaviest most intense thing around (all due respect to Venom). The borderline demonic artwork only cemented the bond between the band and the extreme underground.

Now, of course its commonplace for artists to have a reputation of going on for decades, but in the 80's, only the Who and the Rolling Stones had managed to accomplish that. But I think, even nowadays whenever a new band pops up, fans only expect them to last for 5 years or so. After that 5 years, either that band's creativity runs dry, or the fans become just plain tired of the band and expect them to "go away" to make room for the next "big thing" in metal.

This, in my opinion, is exactly what happened with Maiden after the Powerslave craze. In 1986, when Somewhere In Time was about to drop, there were quite a few new things going on. The thrash movement was just about to reach its peak, with Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, and a slew of other thrashers releasing albums, that many consider to be their respective final works. A new younger breed ready to tear a new orifice in the body of music. This music of course was the next logical step in terms of the brutality of metal music. The riffs were getting heavier, the guitar tones were getting thicker, the vocals were getting less melodic and more guttural (for lack of a better term) and the lyrics were getting more violent. Exactly what your typical metal fan would want. Plus, fans were probably getting tired of Maiden, for no reason other than the fact that they've been listening to them for 4-5 years straight, and wanted something a little heavier.

On top of that, Maiden, rather than re-tread Number Of The Beast once again, decided to add keyboards in the bands sound. All apologizies to Jon Lord, but according to your average metal fan, keyboards are about the most feminine thing you could add to your rock ensemble. Tarja Turunen crooning melodramatic songs about love's first kiss is exactly what most metal fans think of when they think of keyboards, and its also the exact opposite of what they want.

Now I can picture many people complaining about my assessment of metal fans and how their dominance over the metal scene Well the thing is, they did. My opinion is only one opinion, but since those with simpler minds seem to ban together in much larger groups than those with more intelligence, they pretty much decide what was in and out. And in 1986, Maiden was out, and thrash was in.


Thoughts?

ADD
03-03-2009, 11:34 AM
That's pretty good man, I mean we're looking at this in hindsight, it'd be good to get an opinion of someone who was a big Maiden fan at the time and see what they think. But I think thats a good assessment.

JRA
03-03-2009, 11:37 AM
That's pretty good man, I mean we're looking at this in hindsight, it'd be good to get an opinion of someone who was a big Maiden fan at the time and see what they think. But I think thats a good assessment.

Yea, my opinion is purely a hindsight one based of of hearsay. For all I know I could be completely wrong. Maybe what really happened was SIT was hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread and some conspirators felt threatened. Thus worked in secret to re-write history. :eyes:

ADD
03-03-2009, 11:41 AM
Yea, my opinion is purely a hindsight one based of of hearsay. For all I know I could be completely wrong. Maybe what really happened was SIT was hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread and some conspirators felt threatened. Thus worked in secret to re-write history. :eyes:
:lol: Also man you gotta take into account that hair/glam rock was getting into its heyday in the second half of the 80's, so that kinda took up the mainstream side of rock whereas like you said thrash was ruling the underground, so Maiden was kinda caught in the middle.

mankvill
03-03-2009, 11:43 AM
wtf i love somewhere in time D:

JRA
03-03-2009, 11:50 AM
:lol: Also man you gotta take into account that hair/glam rock was getting into its heyday in the second half of the 80's, so that kinda took up the mainstream side of rock whereas like you said thrash was ruling the underground, so Maiden was kinda caught in the middle.


I omitted that because most real metal fans didn't really take hair/glam metal seriously, but like you said, Maiden was caught in the middle, but fans probably thought their sound at that point was leaning more toward glam metal, thus the backlash.

Fe Maiden
03-03-2009, 12:10 PM
That's pretty good man, I mean we're looking at this in hindsight, it'd be good to get an opinion of someone who was a big Maiden fan at the time and see what they think. But I think thats a good assessment.I was a big Maiden fan at the time!:D What happened is (c)rap, hip-hop, grunge, & alternative hit the scene and all the kiddies thought that was what was cool since it was on MTV. Not all Maiden fans tired of them BTW JRA!

ravenheart
03-03-2009, 12:58 PM
wtf i love somewhere in time D:

Me too. It's my favourite '80s Maiden record.

JRA
03-03-2009, 01:12 PM
For the record, I'm not saying that Somewhere In Time is a bad album (I do rate it above Piece Of Mind after all :D), I'm merely interpreting why there was a mixed reaction from it from the metal community back in the day.

I was a big Maiden fan at the time!:D What happened is (c)rap, hip-hop, grunge, & alternative hit the scene and all the kiddies thought that was what was cool since it was on MTV. Not all Maiden fans tired of them BTW JRA!

I firmly believe that none of those four genres had anything to do with this situation. Besides, grunge & alternative didn't explode until 92-93, at which point Maiden were actually stagnating creatively.

I'm not talking about mass-pop culture, I'm talking about the metal fanbase in America & England (and too a lesser extent the entire world) and the Maiden fanbase within, and why Somewhere In Time isn't as acclaimed as the first 5. Sad is it maybe, there are metalheads who believe Maiden sucked after Powerslave, or Piece Of Mind, or even Killers for that matter (the latter are forgotten, jaded mongloids, but that's beside the point). My point is that Maiden was more or less criticized and forgotten about because in 1986 they were no longer the heaviest thing in town.

Maiden33
03-03-2009, 01:13 PM
Me too. It's my favourite '80s Maiden record.

It's my favorite Maiden record in general. In my opinion Somewhere In Time is the best and most consistent thing Maiden have ever put out. It took a long time for me to realize this. It really became apparent when I attempted to rank every song in Maiden's discography. I realized something. Every song from Somewhere In Time ranked in the top 45, which of a 120+ studio album track discography for a band as great as Maiden, is really fucking insane. No other album even came close to that. Every other album has it's 1 or 2 obvious duds, but every song on Somewhere In Time is a classic to me. I suppose it also comes from my love of Adrian Smith, who is at his all-time high on Somewhere In Time. Aside from penning 3 great tracks entirely by himself, his soloing is out of this world. If I was to list my top 20 H solos, a half-dozen would be from this album alone.
Also, speaking of guitar, in my opinion the guitar sound on Somewhere In Time is the best ever. The warm distortion is just godlike, and I have spent a long time trying to pin it down for myself. The combination of guitar synth bombast and godlike warm distortion is just immense. The leads are incredible, they just sound so full.
I just can't say enough about Somewhere In Time, but I guess it's not for everyone, as it is certainly one of Maidens more commercial-friendly releases, and Steve's famous repetitious choruses really began to take hold on this album.

JRA
03-03-2009, 01:23 PM
Also, speaking of guitar, in my opinion the guitar sound on Somewhere In Time is the best ever. The warm distortion is just godlike, and I have spent a long time trying to pin it down for myself. The combination of guitar synth bombast and godlike warm distortion is just immense. The leads are incredible, they just sound so full.
I just can't say enough about Somewhere In Time, but I guess it's not for everyone, as it is certainly one of Maidens more commercial-friendly releases, and Steve's famous repetitious choruses really began to take hold on this album.

This also contributes to my argument. Like I said, I like Somewhere In Time, and I do like the guitar tone of that album, but the fact is there were much heavier sounds from other bands including supposed carbon copies of Maiden. Helloween, anyone (which makes me wonder if a decent portion of Maiden fans jumped ship to Helloween after Keeper Of The 7 Keys came out, since it was essentially the Maiden sound without "the ghey ass keyboards")? And commercial friendly, that's pretty much the kiss of death to the metal-underground.

Div
03-03-2009, 01:24 PM
meh, i wouldnt rate SiT the best, i really think it's about middle ground for bruce era maiden. also, thrash was around before 87, exodus and overkill were thrashing around before metallica.

JRA
03-03-2009, 01:40 PM
meh, i wouldnt rate SiT the best, i really think it's about middle ground for bruce era maiden. also, thrash was around before 87, exodus and overkill were thrashing around before metallica.

It was around, but I don't think the entire "metal underground" was aware of it before then though.

SomewhereInTime72
03-03-2009, 01:43 PM
SIT was the last Maiden album to go platinum in the US, so maybe it would be better saying that Seventh Son was when Maiden started fading...(though clearly Seventh Son gets a LOT of acclaim and credit, while SIT is without a doubt the most underrated 80's album).

It is (rather obviously) my favorite Maiden album, and I guess Maiden lost the favor of many metalheads by not following the whims of the genres directions, which I respect. It's just like nowadays, when most bands are adding -core or melodeath influences, I'd much prefer a band taking a new direction ('cause lets face it, what Maiden did with SIT and SSOASS was very unique) then giving in to what people want. Selling out to the underground is still selling out. :dorky:

Maiden33
03-03-2009, 02:00 PM
This also contributes to my argument. Like I said, I like Somewhere In Time, and I do like the guitar tone of that album, but the fact is there were much heavier sounds from other bands including supposed carbon copies of Maiden. Helloween, anyone (which makes me wonder if a decent portion of Maiden fans jumped ship to Helloween after Keeper Of The 7 Keys came out, since it was essentially the Maiden sound without "the ghey ass keyboards")? And commercial friendly, that's pretty much the kiss of death to the metal-underground.

This really calls to mind one thing I absolutely hate about a lot of "old school" Metal fans. People who think faster and heavier is always better. The heaviest guitar sound isn't always the best, in fact it usually seldom is. It's all about what's right for the music. I also never ever frown upon catchy melodies and hooks, in fact I actually like them. It's more difficult to write a song with them than without them, contrary to what most metal-minded non-songwriters think. Maiden has never ever crossed my mind as one of the heaviest, or even heavier bands out there, now or circa the mid-80s. Maiden was never about being the heaviest band around, which is why I hate when people complain that certain albums weren't heavy enough.

Fe Maiden
03-03-2009, 02:13 PM
For the record, I'm not saying that Somewhere In Time is a bad album (I do rate it above Piece Of Mind after all :D), I'm merely interpreting why there was a mixed reaction from it from the metal community back in the day.



I firmly believe that none of those four genres had anything to do with this situation. Besides, grunge & alternative didn't explode until 92-93, at which point Maiden were actually stagnating creatively.

I'm not talking about mass-pop culture, I'm talking about the metal fanbase in America & England (and too a lesser extent the entire world) and the Maiden fanbase within, and why Somewhere In Time isn't as acclaimed as the first 5. Sad is it maybe, there are metalheads who believe Maiden sucked after Powerslave, or Piece Of Mind, or even Killers for that matter (the latter are forgotten, jaded mongloids, but that's beside the point). My point is that Maiden was more or less criticized and forgotten about because in 1986 they were no longer the heaviest thing in town.Maybe because SIT is an experimental album of sorts. Maybe many Maiden fans saw it as the beginning of the end sort of album like Metallica's Black Album. I for one love SIT. I also like the Black Album but SIT is better! I know many who did not like SIT because of the synths. Not traditional enough!!! Maybe many saw it as Maiden going commercial??? I don't know, Maybe SIT was ahead of its "time" too much. I know some who did not like it then, do like it now.

JRA
03-03-2009, 05:27 PM
SIT was the last Maiden album to go platinum in the US, so maybe it would be better saying that Seventh Son was when Maiden started fading...(though clearly Seventh Son gets a LOT of acclaim and credit, while SIT is without a doubt the most underrated 80's album).

It is (rather obviously) my favorite Maiden album, and I guess Maiden lost the favor of many metalheads by not following the whims of the genres directions, which I respect. It's just like nowadays, when most bands are adding -core or melodeath influences, I'd much prefer a band taking a new direction ('cause lets face it, what Maiden did with SIT and SSOASS was very unique) then giving in to what people want. Selling out to the underground is still selling out. :dorky:


Well perhaps the people who didn't like SIT hated 7th son because it was essentially an expansion of it.

Maiden33
03-03-2009, 05:53 PM
Selling out to the underground is still selling out. :dorky:

You make a good point that I think a lot of people totally miss. Selling out isn't necessarily making shorter, more accessible songs with more hooks and less heaviness. Selling out is going against your creative instinct and giving in to what other people want in order to see financial gain or acceptance from a group of people. It is in fact possible to "sell out" and actually make your music heavier. See Dream Theater's output post-Scenes From a Memory for a perfect example.

powerslave_85
03-03-2009, 06:30 PM
This really calls to mind one thing I absolutely hate about a lot of "old school" Metal fans. People who think faster and heavier is always better. The heaviest guitar sound isn't always the best, in fact it usually seldom is. It's all about what's right for the music. I also never ever frown upon catchy melodies and hooks, in fact I actually like them. It's more difficult to write a song with them than without them, contrary to what most metal-minded non-songwriters think. Maiden has never ever crossed my mind as one of the heaviest, or even heavier bands out there, now or circa the mid-80s. Maiden was never about being the heaviest band around, which is why I hate when people complain that certain albums weren't heavy enough.I've never thought Maiden should be "heavier," but I do think that the post-reunion albums suffered from weak, thin guitar tone that lessened the impact of some of their riffs (Montsegur, Ben Breeg, and Wicker Man come to mind). I think a lot of it is production, but some of it could be remedied by ditching the Strats in favor of something capable of beefier tone. Then again, I don't know what guitars they use to actually record the album, so it's hard to say.

Ha, I still remember the "DOD sounds like shit!/DOD sounds great!" production wars on the old IMBB.

mankvill
03-03-2009, 06:37 PM
I so haven't read any of the other posts in this thread but:

Top 3 Maiden albums (IMO):

1. Powerslave
2. Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
3. Somewhere In Time

:light:

DethMaiden
03-03-2009, 06:53 PM
I've never thought Maiden should be "heavier," but I do think that the post-reunion albums suffered from weak, thin guitar tone that lessened the impact of some of their riffs (Montsegur, Ben Breeg, and Wicker Man come to mind). I think a lot of it is production, but some of it could be remedied by ditching the Strats in favor of something capable of beefier tone. Then again, I don't know what guitars they use to actually record the album, so it's hard to say.

Ha, I still remember the "DOD sounds like shit!/DOD sounds great!" production wars on the old IMBB.

I can concur with this, although really, they were just replicating The X-Factor to a T, putting Bruce behind the mic, and laughing while the same people who hated TXF hailed the comeback as amazing. I personally love both and can observe this from the outside.

And those production wars were great. Of course it sounds like shit next to the non-Caveman produced discs. But it sounds amazing by most standards because of the fucking SONGS.

DethMaiden
03-03-2009, 06:56 PM
I so haven't read any of the other posts in this thread but:

Top 3 Maiden albums (IMO):

1. Powerslave
2. Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
3. Somewhere In Time

:light:

You're close.

1. Powerslave
2. Piece of Mind
3. Seventh Son of a Seventh Son

powerslave_85
03-03-2009, 07:02 PM
1. Powerslave
2. NOTB
3. Seventh Son

JRA
03-03-2009, 07:04 PM
1. NOTB
2. Powerslave
3. Seventh Son


1 simple switch and you have mine.

rjturtle9
03-03-2009, 07:14 PM
here is mine

1. powerslave
2. NOTB
3. 7th son

Maiden33
03-03-2009, 08:23 PM
I've never thought Maiden should be "heavier," but I do think that the post-reunion albums suffered from weak, thin guitar tone that lessened the impact of some of their riffs (Montsegur, Ben Breeg, and Wicker Man come to mind). I think a lot of it is production, but some of it could be remedied by ditching the Strats in favor of something capable of beefier tone. Then again, I don't know what guitars they use to actually record the album, so it's hard to say.

Ha, I still remember the "DOD sounds like shit!/DOD sounds great!" production wars on the old IMBB.

Adrian records primarily with a Les Paul as far as I know. Dave and Janick are 100% strat players, but Dave's always used modified pickups. I personally really dislike Strats myself, but I don't know if the guitars are so much the problem as the fact that Maiden play pretty much entirely through standard Marshall heads and cabinets. I'm not a pro-distortion pedal man myself, but I think stock Marshal distortion sounds like shit unless you want old-school "rockin'" tone. Back in the mid 80s Maiden were using complex rigs with tons of pedals which gave them more unique and clearer, yet also beefier distortion. Now they are trying for the "Simple = Better" approach which I really disagree with. I'm not one of those guitar effects freaks, but I don't think you should settle for substandard tone just because you're doing it "the old school" minimalist way.

And Dance of Death does sound like shit, and it's far from just the guitar tone. The low end sounds absolutely awful. I find the worst part of this to be the fact that Steve actually WANTS the albums to sound like this. The guy who mastered Dance of Death attempted to critique it and "normalize" it, but Steve apparently hated the way it sounded, so he demanded it be returned to the previous, shitty-sounding compressed-to-hell sound that he had been accustomed to from the rough mixes while recording it. I don't like Kevin Shirley much myself, but he's not nearly as much to blame for how bad Dance of Death and even A Matter of Life and Death sound as Steve himself is. I would absolutely love for Maiden to work with a new producer for the next record and see Steve actually let someone else have some input on what actually sounds good.

SomewhereInTime72
03-03-2009, 08:27 PM
DOD sounds really iffy IMO (i like the sound though, once i got use to it), and if anythings wrong with Maiden's modern guitar tone, I'm gonna say that it's kinda not cool how they just run straight through a Marshall stack... they shouldn't have simplified from their 80's setups. :cool:

Maiden33
03-03-2009, 08:29 PM
By the way, this thread is making me realize how much of an absolute Maiden and guitar-tech nut I am.

JRA
03-03-2009, 08:45 PM
This is what Janick should play:

http://cachepe.samedaymusic.com/media/quality,85/brand,sameday/fit,330by330/XPT700BCM-1430ada4ff21ef4ae24a77442f430922.jpg

This is what Adrian should play:

http://cachepe.samedaymusic.com/media/quality,85/brand,sameday/fit,330by330/DTT700MGS-3d1d3ebf434d347f1acbe3abc943119f.jpg


and Dave should play this:

http://cachepe.samedaymusic.com/media/quality,85/brand,sameday/fit,330by330/ICT700WH-803548c3e140b4d916db94572b6e2f36.jpg


(hopefully I won't crash the server this time :eyes: )

Maiden33
03-03-2009, 08:50 PM
I can think of at least 2 or 3 brands of guitars I'd recommend Maiden play before Ibanez guitars, and it goes beyond my absolute disliking of all Ibanez models I've ever played.
But yeah, as I said. My general disliking of their guitar tone now has far less to do with the guitars and much more to do with the amps and distortion they use.

zgodt
03-03-2009, 08:56 PM
I firmly believe that none of those four genres had anything to do with this situation. Besides, grunge & alternative didn't explode until 92-93, at which point Maiden were actually stagnating creatively.

Exactly. And white kids also didn't start listening en masse to rap / hip hop until the 90s -- and the ones who did kept listening to rock as well (rather than "switching over" from rock to rap).

zgodt
03-03-2009, 09:02 PM
I omitted that because most real metal fans didn't really take hair/glam metal seriously, but like you said, Maiden was caught in the middle, but fans probably thought their sound at that point was leaning more toward glam metal, thus the backlash.

I don't think that's true. I don't think metal was that compartmentalized in the 80s -- nothing like it is now. Dudes I knew that were listening to Megadeth were also listening to Whitesnake. Dudes who took me to see Anthrax and Ozzy also had a soft spot for Dokken. Over time hair metal became increasingly cartoonish -- see Winger, see Warrant -- and that helped pave the way for all metal to lose much of its popular favor in the 90s, when grunge and gangsta rap exploded. But when SIT came out, I think metalheads still felt like it was metal vs. pop, rather than thrash metal vs. classic metal vs. hair metal or anything like that...

zgodt
03-03-2009, 09:07 PM
(which makes me wonder if a decent portion of Maiden fans jumped ship to Helloween after Keeper Of The 7 Keys came out, since it was essentially the Maiden sound without "the ghey ass keyboards")?

My experience was quite the reverse. When I saw Helloween open for Ozzy, the guys I was there with (whose favorite bands had long been Priest and Maiden) laughed Helloween off the stage as Maiden-wannabes.

At the time, I kinda liked Keeper of the 7 Keys myself... but as a lesser stepchild of Maiden. Certainly not as any kind of improvement.

rjturtle9
03-03-2009, 09:09 PM
This is what Janick should play:

http://cachepe.samedaymusic.com/media/quality,85/brand,sameday/fit,330by330/XPT700BCM-1430ada4ff21ef4ae24a77442f430922.jpg

This is what Adrian should play:

http://cachepe.samedaymusic.com/media/quality,85/brand,sameday/fit,330by330/DTT700MGS-3d1d3ebf434d347f1acbe3abc943119f.jpg


and Dave should play this:

http://cachepe.samedaymusic.com/media/quality,85/brand,sameday/fit,330by330/ICT700WH-803548c3e140b4d916db94572b6e2f36.jpg


(hopefully I won't crash the server this time :eyes: )

hello no. i would rather them keep the strats and gibsons

TonyD
03-03-2009, 09:32 PM
Yes, you're talking about Iron Maiden here, not Dragonforce.

zgodt
03-03-2009, 09:38 PM
Having dealt with the sidebars, now to the main topic...

I was 14 when SIT dropped. Maiden had been my favorite band for a few years (along with Def Leppard for a while when Pyromania hit). I loved SIT right away. It did not seem "radio friendly." Nowadays, I suppose "Wasted Years" sounds pretty poppy by Maiden standards, but at the time, that opening riff was absolutely badass. I mean, we all died over it. And the other single, SIASL... the main riff of that is one of the heaviest, crunchiest things they've ever done.

Besides, they didn't use keyboards. They used "guitar synths." The distinction seems silly now, but to the metalhead mentality then it was important. They may have sounded like keyboards but they weren't. They were just keyboardy-sounding guitars. Maiden wasn't turning into Europe, thank god.

And they were still hitting all their hallmarks. Badass album art and stage set. A fast opener with awesome guitar harmonies, and a sprawling epic to close the album. This was no sell-out. When they put out their next album, "Can I Play with Madness" would sound a little dodgy, I admit... but there was nothing on SIT that screamed "commercial." Also, it may have helped that for comparative purposes, the other heavy metal giant of the era, Judas Priest, had just released Turbo. Against the backdrop of that clear grab for mainstream airplay, Maiden's new album felt deeply authentic.

I remember a friend of mine at the time heard SIT as his first Maiden album, and was hooked. He said to me one day that he knew their other stuff couldn't be this good of course, but wondered if it was close. He was amazed when I told him Powerslave was even a little better. That's how I thought of it back then -- that they were both great albums, and that Powerslave (my all time favorite metal album, then and now) was just a little better.

Nowadays, I think SIT hasn't aged well. I think the production sounds lousy, and most of the songs leave something to be desired. (The two songs that still seem great to me, surprisingly, are the singles.) But at the time, in the throes of 1986 metalheadness, at the same time as I was falling in love with Megadeth and Metallica, I (and basically all the metalheads I knew) thought SIT was the pinnacle of contemporary heavy metal.

ADD
03-03-2009, 09:54 PM
Cool shit zgodt :cool:

mankvill
03-03-2009, 10:02 PM
Yes, you're talking about Iron Maiden here, not Dragonforce.

This is now a Dragonforce thread.

Maiden33
03-04-2009, 07:08 AM
Having dealt with the sidebars, now to the main topic...

I was 14 when SIT dropped. Maiden had been my favorite band for a few years (along with Def Leppard for a while when Pyromania hit). I loved SIT right away. It did not seem "radio friendly." Nowadays, I suppose "Wasted Years" sounds pretty poppy by Maiden standards, but at the time, that opening riff was absolutely badass. I mean, we all died over it. And the other single, SIASL... the main riff of that is one of the heaviest, crunchiest things they've ever done.

Besides, they didn't use keyboards. They used "guitar synths." The distinction seems silly now, but to the metalhead mentality then it was important. They may have sounded like keyboards but they weren't. They were just keyboardy-sounding guitars. Maiden wasn't turning into Europe, thank god.

And they were still hitting all their hallmarks. Badass album art and stage set. A fast opener with awesome guitar harmonies, and a sprawling epic to close the album. This was no sell-out. When they put out their next album, "Can I Play with Madness" would sound a little dodgy, I admit... but there was nothing on SIT that screamed "commercial." Also, it may have helped that for comparative purposes, the other heavy metal giant of the era, Judas Priest, had just released Turbo. Against the backdrop of that clear grab for mainstream airplay, Maiden's new album felt deeply authentic.

I remember a friend of mine at the time heard SIT as his first Maiden album, and was hooked. He said to me one day that he knew their other stuff couldn't be this good of course, but wondered if it was close. He was amazed when I told him Powerslave was even a little better. That's how I thought of it back then -- that they were both great albums, and that Powerslave (my all time favorite metal album, then and now) was just a little better.

Nowadays, I think SIT hasn't aged well. I think the production sounds lousy, and most of the songs leave something to be desired. (The two songs that still seem great to me, surprisingly, are the singles.) But at the time, in the throes of 1986 metalheadness, at the same time as I was falling in love with Megadeth and Metallica, I (and basically all the metalheads I knew) thought SIT was the pinnacle of contemporary heavy metal.

You make a lot of great points here. I've noticed amongst the "old" Maiden fans I know (those who were fans since the first 5 albums), and no one I know claims that Somewhere In Time was the point at which they began to lose interest in Maiden. It was either Seventh Son or any one of the 90s albums.
I couldn't disagree more about the album not aging well though. I think it's still one of the best sounding albums in the world, I absolutely love the sound of the album, and I still stick by my claim that it's the most consistent thing Maiden have ever put out.

JRA
03-04-2009, 07:08 AM
Having dealt with the sidebars, now to the main topic...

I was 14 when SIT dropped. Maiden had been my favorite band for a few years (along with Def Leppard for a while when Pyromania hit). I loved SIT right away. It did not seem "radio friendly." Nowadays, I suppose "Wasted Years" sounds pretty poppy by Maiden standards, but at the time, that opening riff was absolutely badass. I mean, we all died over it. And the other single, SIASL... the main riff of that is one of the heaviest, crunchiest things they've ever done.

Besides, they didn't use keyboards. They used "guitar synths." The distinction seems silly now, but to the metalhead mentality then it was important. They may have sounded like keyboards but they weren't. They were just keyboardy-sounding guitars. Maiden wasn't turning into Europe, thank god.

And they were still hitting all their hallmarks. Badass album art and stage set. A fast opener with awesome guitar harmonies, and a sprawling epic to close the album. This was no sell-out. When they put out their next album, "Can I Play with Madness" would sound a little dodgy, I admit... but there was nothing on SIT that screamed "commercial." Also, it may have helped that for comparative purposes, the other heavy metal giant of the era, Judas Priest, had just released Turbo. Against the backdrop of that clear grab for mainstream airplay, Maiden's new album felt deeply authentic.

I remember a friend of mine at the time heard SIT as his first Maiden album, and was hooked. He said to me one day that he knew their other stuff couldn't be this good of course, but wondered if it was close. He was amazed when I told him Powerslave was even a little better. That's how I thought of it back then -- that they were both great albums, and that Powerslave (my all time favorite metal album, then and now) was just a little better.

Nowadays, I think SIT hasn't aged well. I think the production sounds lousy, and most of the songs leave something to be desired. (The two songs that still seem great to me, surprisingly, are the singles.) But at the time, in the throes of 1986 metalheadness, at the same time as I was falling in love with Megadeth and Metallica, I (and basically all the metalheads I knew) thought SIT was the pinnacle of contemporary heavy metal.


A highly astute observation.

Maiden33
03-04-2009, 07:10 AM
This is now a Dragonforce thread.

Certainly not.

Funny note about the guitars JRA posted: Adrian actually did play an Ibanez Destroyer on the Number of the Beast tour, as well as certain songs on the Piece of Mind tour I believe. Adrian has always been the more experimental guitarist in axe choice. Adrian actually didn't ever even use Fender Strats until the Brave New World tour.

JRA
03-04-2009, 07:20 AM
Certainly not.

Funny note about the guitars JRA posted: Adrian actually did play an Ibanez Destroyer on the Number of the Beast tour, as well as certain songs on the Piece of Mind tour I believe.


Which is why I want it back.


Strangely enough, didn't he also used to play the guitar that Dimebag Darrell uses?

Maiden33
03-04-2009, 07:26 AM
Which is why I want it back.


Strangely enough, didn't he also used to play the guitar that Dimebag Darrell usese?

I don't think so. I know the guitar you're thinking about but I don't think it's the same. It's a Dean something or other, can't recall the model.

rjturtle9
03-04-2009, 02:04 PM
I don't think so. I know the guitar you're thinking about but I don't think it's the same. It's a Dean something or other, can't recall the model.

yeah doesn't he play it on live after death and maiden england

powerslave_85
03-04-2009, 02:12 PM
This is now a Dragonforce thread.
Leave the hall.

JRA
03-04-2009, 03:27 PM
Leave the hall.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WIN!!!!

mankvill
03-04-2009, 05:46 PM
Leave the hall.

I am neither a wimp nor a poser! :mad:

powerslave_85
03-04-2009, 06:08 PM
Worse: you like Dragonforce.

mankvill
03-04-2009, 07:01 PM
Worse: you like Dragonforce.

but hot topic told me that was cool? :confused:

rjturtle9
03-04-2009, 08:07 PM
Worse: you like Dragonforce.

:finger2:

zgodt
03-04-2009, 08:20 PM
You make a lot of great points here. I've noticed amongst the "old" Maiden fans I know (those who were fans since the first 5 albums), and no one I know claims that Somewhere In Time was the point at which they began to lose interest in Maiden. It was either Seventh Son or any one of the 90s albums.
I couldn't disagree more about the album not aging well though. I think it's still one of the best sounding albums in the world, I absolutely love the sound of the album, and I still stick by my claim that it's the most consistent thing Maiden have ever put out.

We'll agree to disagree about the lasting quality of SIT.

For me, No Prayer for the Dying was the first blow to my Maiden fandom, and Fear of the Dark broke my heart. I sold both those albums not long after I bought them, and hardly listened to Maiden at all for most of the 90s. When someone gave me free tickets to see them on the VXI tour, I was surprised to hear they were still around....

Maiden33
03-04-2009, 08:44 PM
yeah doesn't he play it on live after death and maiden england

Nah. Live After Death is a split between a Les Paul Goldtop and a LADO Earth model, really rare guitar. Adrian had like two guitars from them and Steve had like 2 basses from them in the mid 80s. They've never surfaced since though.
I know H uses a Jackson Strat on a lot of Maiden England, I'm not sure if any other guitars were used.

Div
03-04-2009, 09:55 PM
http://zare.jezgra.net/misc/adrian/ladoearth_sunburst_1.jpg

TonyD
03-04-2009, 10:00 PM
but hot topic told me that was cool? :confused:

Ok let him back in, he's cool, he's cool.

Maiden33
03-05-2009, 05:39 AM
http://zare.jezgra.net/misc/adrian/ladoearth_sunburst_1.jpg

Yep, that's the LADO Earth.

rjturtle9
03-05-2009, 09:33 PM
Yep, that's the LADO Earth.

that's the one i was talking about.