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View Full Version : The Official 'Now Voting 2008' Thread


Div
11-03-2008, 12:41 PM
Ok so with the election tomorrow and all I figured we should have a thread on who we are going to vote for, it only comes once every 4 years. I've provided an above poll with the canidates so we can see were we stand as a community. For those who don't follow politics, below is a short description of each canidate. The poll is private, so don't be embarrassed to do it.


JOHN SIDNEY MCCAIN III
http://harryallen.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/john-mccain2.jpg
McCain is a maverick from Arizona's first district running on the "Republican" ticket. He is anti-abortion, claims to be against taxes, and is in favor of "spreading democracy" through imperial takeover of small nations who disagree with our policies. He is proud to be an American, where atleast he knows he's free, and he won't forget the men who died because he ratted them out in the Hanoi Hilton. His Vice Presidential canidate is a Christian Fundamentalist MILF from Alaska who will be played by Lisa Ann in the adult film Nailn' Palin.


BARRACK HUSSIEN OBAMA
http://overbreadth.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vulcan-obama.jpg
Barrack is a first term senator from Illinois running on the Democratic ticket. He is pro-abortion, pro-taxes, and anti-war even though he voted in support of it. Most liberal NJ college students feel he is the second coming of MLK Jr. and will make America a truly great country, the likes of which we haven't seen since the glorious Clinton administration. His Vice Presidential canidate is Joe Biden but noone really gives a shit about him.


ABBATH DOOM OCCULTA
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/prinzeofdarknez/abbath.jpg
Abbath is a worldly 3rd party canidate who hails from Norway. He is a man of strong determination with deep roots in tradition. Abbath is a firm environmentalist who believes strongly in appreciating nature's beauty. Regarding foreign policy Abbath is very aggressive, promoting merciless slaughter of all who oppose his dark throne.

DethMaiden
11-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Close call between Obama and Abbath but I decided to take this seriously and chose Barack. :D

Derelict
11-03-2008, 01:19 PM
Abbath isn't that much worse than those other two assclowns

SirLardsAlot
11-03-2008, 01:20 PM
I'd vote for Abbath if he was running.




But anyway, I'm not voting.

SomewhereInTime72
11-03-2008, 01:46 PM
http://www.mccainusa.com/mccainfoodservice/default.aspx

Eat this before your vote. It changed my mind.

mankvill
11-03-2008, 02:57 PM
Stephen colbert

ChildrenofSodom
11-03-2008, 04:05 PM
My picks
1) Ron Paul (voted for in primary)
2)Cynthia McKinney (voted early in general)
3) Barack Obama (lesser of two evils)
4) Stephen Colbert

Sinfulsot
11-03-2008, 05:01 PM
while i have been undecided for a good portion of the campaign trail when it came down to mccain and obama, i was leaning toward mccain until mccain/palin started in with the fear mongering. and with that, they fear mongered my vote to obama.

factoring out all of the politics, it's high time we had a black president, which isn't a good reason to cast a vote, but history needs to be made, and we are living it.

powerslave_85
11-03-2008, 06:51 PM
http://www.tubearoo.com/m2/89034/117490_the_simpsons_citizen_kang_1.jpg

"I am looking forward to an orderly election tomorrow, which will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath!"
*applause*

JRA
11-03-2008, 08:22 PM
I would say something like this, but Abbath's first order of business should be changing his name to Abbath Doom Occunta. :D

rjturtle9
11-03-2008, 08:27 PM
Stephen colbert

:fist:

ravenheart
11-04-2008, 06:44 AM
Stephen colbert

Amen. Not that it's my country.

I'd vote Alice Cooper, myself.

Div
11-04-2008, 02:51 PM
ITT: people who think "voting for steven colbert" is an original joke.

ADD
11-04-2008, 03:04 PM
Voted for the first time today :party: I'm now an official American :allan:

JRA
11-04-2008, 08:03 PM
Well according to the BBC, Obama has won! (and for those of you who are about to go "fuck the BBC" I trust them alot more than I trust my own news. Especially after the fiasco's of the last two elections).

powerslave_85
11-04-2008, 08:08 PM
YES WE DID.

SirLardsAlot
11-04-2008, 08:12 PM
How boring.

DethMaiden
11-04-2008, 08:28 PM
Well according to the BBC, Obama has won! (and for those of you who are about to go "fuck the BBC" I trust them alot more than I trust my own news. Especially after the fiasco's of the last two elections).

I only use the BBC and the Economist for news. Except on TV. I watched MSNBC tonight. :eyes:

SirLardsAlot
11-04-2008, 08:43 PM
I watched CNN. They had sweet hologram interviews from like a sci fi movie.

powerslave_85
11-04-2008, 08:47 PM
How boring.
I'm glad it was. No drama, no recounts. Just a straight-up ass whooping.

SirLardsAlot
11-04-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm glad it was. No drama, no recounts. Just a straight-up ass whooping.

Trend to the max!

es156
11-04-2008, 09:08 PM
Trend to the max!

Ha ha, no doubt.

hot_turkey_ed
11-04-2008, 11:33 PM
Damn it. Abbath lost. :bouville:

Div
11-04-2008, 11:36 PM
congrats america, you just elected a democratic senate, congress and executive office. and if you cant see the problems with that you are probably a party-line tool.

seriously tho, why are we celebrating the election of a president owned by corporations who has no political experience, an inconsistent voting record, and who talks using broad generalized statements. hes better than mccain in some areas, but hes FAR from perfect. oh right, hes half black, thats a good reason to elect someone to political office.

atleast now white comedians are allowed to be racist just like black comedians.

ChildrenofSodom
11-05-2008, 04:23 AM
What? We have had a Republican Congress, White House, AND Supreme Court 6 of the past 8 years. You dont think its time for a little role reversal? Barring a third party takeover, thats about as much change as you're gonna get.

And I think belittling the importance of the first black president in US history shows a true ignorance to American race relations.

Firewind
11-05-2008, 07:16 AM
I keep seeing this sentiment that Obama is going to destroy the US by my conservative friends, and I'm really having a hard time with this.

How about a Palin whitehouse?

Fe Maiden
11-05-2008, 07:32 AM
I keep seeing this sentiment that Obama is going to destroy the US by my conservative friends, and I'm really having a hard time with this.
I see this a lot as well and hope and pray it will not come to fruition.

JRA
11-05-2008, 07:44 AM
I'm more concerned that come inauguration day, Bush isn't gonna leave the White House and declare martial law than anything Obama will do to the country.

zgodt
11-05-2008, 08:12 AM
congrats america, you just elected a democratic senate, congress and executive office. and if you cant see the problems with that you are probably a party-line tool.

seriously tho, why are we celebrating the election of a president owned by corporations who has no political experience, an inconsistent voting record, and who talks using broad generalized statements. hes better than mccain in some areas, but hes FAR from perfect. oh right, hes half black, thats a good reason to elect someone to political office.

atleast now white comedians are allowed to be racist just like black comedians.

What "problems with that" do you have in mind?

I tend to agree it would be better to have a greater variety of voices in the executive and legislative branches. As long as none of them were Republicans.

All other things being equal, you're damn right I'd choose the black man over the white man. But of course all other things were NOT equal. People are celebrating Obama's victory for a whole boatload of reasons which should be clear enough. (A decisive, clean break from the Bush administration, for instance.) And that characterization of Obama as "owned" by corporations, as having "no" political experience, and as talking in vague generalized statements is simplistic hogwash.

Don't know what you're getting at about the comedians and racism... and I don't think I want to.

ChildrenofSodom
11-05-2008, 09:38 AM
The racism deeply rooted in the anti-Obama crowd is evident.

JRA
11-05-2008, 10:17 AM
What "problems with that" do you have in mind?

I tend to agree it would be better to have a greater variety of voices in the executive and legislative branches. As long as none of them were Republicans.

All other things being equal, you're damn right I'd choose the black man over the white man. But of course all other things were NOT equal. People are celebrating Obama's victory for a whole boatload of reasons which should be clear enough. (A decisive, clean break from the Bush administration, for instance.) And that characterization of Obama as "owned" by corporations, as having "no" political experience, and as talking in vague generalized statements is simplistic hogwash.

Don't know what you're getting at about the comedians and racism... and I don't think I want to.



I'm so happy you're back. Even if you hate Kreator. :)

ADD
11-05-2008, 12:21 PM
Yeah, the minority who are completely freaking out about Obama becoming president are more than a little ridiculous. Chill out, enjoy that you were around to witness firsthand this monumentally historic event, give the guy his well-deserved props, and move on with your life. America isn't gonna come crashing down in some Communist heap, the government is still gonna be the government, Obama isn't some magician who's gonna cure cancer and bring world peace, but I think he's very smart and will sure as hell do a better job than the last guy. There's a reason he kicked McCain's ass, and looking back he really kicked everybody's ass. I know I haven't been around to see a lot of politics or care about it much really, but I find it hard to believe that people have been this worked up and energized and excited about a politician in a really long time. Especially to people my age Obama is like a pop icon, which I think is just astounding and a testament to the fact that people in this country still actually care and wanna make a difference and get involved. It's a very cool time I think, and maybe the start of bringing unity back to this place.

JRA
11-05-2008, 12:30 PM
Yeah, the minority who are completely freaking out about Obama becoming president are more than a little ridiculous. Chill out, enjoy that you were around to witness firsthand this monumentally historic event, give the guy his well-deserved props, and move on with your life. America isn't gonna come crashing down in some Communist heap, the government is still gonna be the government, Obama isn't some magician who's gonna cure cancer and bring world peace, but I think he's very smart and will sure as hell do a better job than the last guy. There's a reason he kicked McCain's ass, and looking back he really kicked everybody's ass. I know I haven't been around to see a lot of politics or care about it much really, but I find it hard to believe that people have been this worked up and energized and excited about a politician in a really long time. Especially to people my age Obama is like a pop icon, which I think is just astounding and a testament to the fact that people in this country still actually care and wanna make a difference and get involved. It's a very cool time I think, and maybe the start of bringing unity back to this place.


:party: :party: :party: :party:

Div
11-05-2008, 02:56 PM
What "problems with that" do you have in mind?

I tend to agree it would be better to have a greater variety of voices in the executive and legislative branches. As long as none of them were Republicans.

All other things being equal, you're damn right I'd choose the black man over the white man. But of course all other things were NOT equal. People are celebrating Obama's victory for a whole boatload of reasons which should be clear enough. (A decisive, clean break from the Bush administration, for instance.) And that characterization of Obama as "owned" by corporations, as having "no" political experience, and as talking in vague generalized statements is simplistic hogwash.

Don't know what you're getting at about the comedians and racism... and I don't think I want to.


then prove me wrong smart guy. lets look up how much money obama got from corporations and lobbyists, how much free publicity was given to him by the media as opposed to other canidates. lets see how close obamas voting record holds up to the constitution. obama sucks, hes not a good canidate, and neither was mccain or palin, or 90% of the douchebags who were in the primaries. maybe if you stopped drinking the kool-aid and trying to be a trendy liberal you might someday understand what this country was supposed to be like when the founders made it. you're stuck in an "us vs them" mentality, you think theres a huge difference between the dems and repubs, open your mind man, look at the bigger picture. how much of what obama said last night actually had substance to it?

and about the comedians. if a white man put on black face paint and went around with a bucket of KFC and a watermelon saying "oh lawdy lawdy lawdy" he would be called a racist motherfucker. but dave chapelle can put on white makeup, a wig, and do the routine and its just fucking hilarious isnt it? but now that a black man got elected president i guess that double standard isnt going to fly anymore.

-------------
and CoS, just because there was a full republican government doesnt mean we need the polar opposite. one extreme doesnt mean we need to go to the other to fix it. do we take people who are burning to death and throw them in the middle of the ocean? and i seriously hope you were not trying to imply im a racist...

----------
ADD, he is a pop icon and thats a problem. politicians shouldnt be "cool" like MTV celebrities. they have a very serious job to do and people shouldnt vote based on a who has coolness factor.

JRA
11-05-2008, 03:21 PM
----------
ADD, he is a pop icon and thats a problem. politicians shouldnt be "cool" like MTV celebrities. they have a very serious job to do and people shouldnt vote based on a who has coolness factor.



This was pretty much the only thing I agree with.

As for whites not making fun of blacks in the mainstream, we do that just fine elsewhere.

http://www.roflmachine.com/fun/startrek_watermelon.gif

ADD
11-05-2008, 04:57 PM
ADD, he is a pop icon and thats a problem. politicians shouldnt be "cool" like MTV celebrities. they have a very serious job to do and people shouldnt vote based on a who has coolness factor.

Yeah but in this case he obviously earned that credit, it sure as hell wasn't just decided that one day all the 18-25 year old demographic would make him their idol, fuck no. There's a reason he's "cool" and that's cuz people can identify with him, which is a quality that politicians have been unable to project forever it seems like. And if you think that the common people/younger generation identifying with someone who is traditionally supposed to be thought of as the Mr. Serious-Business Politician is a bad thing then sorry but that's idiotic.

"Tell me something, it's still 'We, the people' right?"

powerslave_85
11-05-2008, 05:29 PM
but dave chapelle can put on white makeup, a wig, and do the routine and its just fucking hilarious isnt it?That's because it IS funny. White people are fucking lame.

I wish Chappelle's Show had still been on during the election cycle. I would have loved to see his take on Obama, he does the "black guy who talks like a white guy" thing pretty brilliantly.

Div
11-05-2008, 06:13 PM
This was pretty much the only thing I agree with.

As for whites not making fun of blacks in the mainstream, we do that just fine elsewhere.

http://www.roflmachine.com/fun/startrek_watermelon.gif


:lol: can always count on you to alleviate the tensions in heated threads.

That's because it IS funny. White people are fucking lame.

I wish Chappelle's Show had still been on during the election cycle. I would have loved to see his take on Obama, he does the "black guy who talks like a white guy" thing pretty brilliantly.

i get where youre coming from, but i think stereotypes and generalizations should be discouraged in society as they tend to make people ignorant and intolerant.

rjturtle9
11-05-2008, 06:32 PM
yeah i agree. double standards are a waste of time. if a black guy can do it, so can a white guy. i' no racist, nor am i white, but seriously, back people should get over the whole slavery thing. there is no living person still alive today that was around during that time. yes, many may have experienced the civil rights movement, and all the problems with that, but the more they hang onto that, the more it will divide the country. plus it just adds to the racism in this country, which is one of it's main problems

SomewhereInTime72
11-05-2008, 07:02 PM
but seriously, back people should get over the whole slavery thing.

Just like it never happened, right guys? :D

mankvill
11-05-2008, 07:17 PM
"Tell me something, it's still 'We, the people' right?"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/farmpimp/myspace/MustainePancakes.jpg

JRA
11-05-2008, 07:43 PM
That's because it IS funny. White people are fucking lame.

I wish Chappelle's Show had still been on during the election cycle. I would have loved to see his take on Obama, he does the "black guy who talks like a white guy" thing pretty brilliantly.

I know, the only thing white people do know how to do properly is THRASH!!! :shred: :shred: :shred:

Good lord, dude. Season 2 ended 4 years ago. If it was still on, Chappelle Show still being funny would have been nothing short of a mircale. To this day I still haven't taken time out to see Season 3 because of how mediocre I heard it was.

rjturtle9
11-05-2008, 07:53 PM
Just like it never happened, right guys? :D

well not like it never happened. i think they should just let it go. it's over now and thank god we are not still like that.

zgodt
11-05-2008, 09:53 PM
I'm so happy you're back. Even if you hate Kreator. :)

:)

Didn't realize anyone noticed I was gone. I didn't get a birthday thread last month. :bouville:

zgodt
11-05-2008, 09:57 PM
well not like it never happened. i think they should just let it go. it's over now and thank god we are not still like that.

I shudder at this. I really do. I know you mean well... but dude. Racism is alive and well. People deal with it every day. Black people's anger over it is not like some kind of sour grapes over shit that ended 150 years ago. It's about the world we live in right now. To suggest that the ongoing targets of racism (rather than the perpetrators) are the ones who should "just let it go" is delusional at best.

Sinfulsot
11-05-2008, 10:11 PM
I'm more concerned that come inauguration day, Bush isn't gonna leave the White House and declare martial law than anything Obama will do to the country.

I was afraid martial law would be declared when Nine Eleven had just happened. Now that Bush has had 2 terms, i wouldn't be surprised if he did declare it, especially if he wagged the dog. well, cheney would most likely be the one to engineer the falsehood, that evil genius.



and about the comedians. if a white man put on black face paint and went around with a bucket of KFC and a watermelon saying "oh lawdy lawdy lawdy" he would be called a racist motherfucker. but dave chapelle can put on white makeup, a wig, and do the routine and its just fucking hilarious isnt it? but now that a black man got elected president i guess that double standard isnt going to fly anymore.


i think the double standard will be as strong as it is, now that the usage is just "the n-word", which i believe maintains its power as a hate word. i won't say it in full because i hear the hate emanating from my voice. maybe a grassroots campaign to return to the original meaning of the word would deflate it some. but i digress...


...just because there was a full republican government doesnt mean we need the polar opposite. one extreme doesnt mean we need to go to the other to fix it. do we take people who are burning to death and throw them in the middle of the ocean?


Agreed. having a relative balance in the bodies of government would keep the lying politicians relatively honest, but i may be using the wrong turn of phrase. an overwhelming majority of one party would exploit the system to push that party's agenda through as we have seen with the republican government.

...but i think stereotypes and generalizations should be discouraged in society as they tend to make people ignorant and intolerant.

agreed, but a good comedian will use stereotypes and generalizations to illuminate that inherent bullshit. Chapelle's white guy routine as well as the race pixies (might be a 3rd season bit). Eddie Murphy's bit on SNL exploring NYC as a white man is another example. Also Carlos Mencia's bit on the fear of having a black president.



Just like it never happened, right guys?
well not like it never happened. i think they should just let it go. it's over now and thank god we are not still like that.

I don't think anyone who calls his/her self an american can let it go; it's part of US history. race relations should be about the now and going forward, and less about the past. or rather, it should be acknowledged as our history without it curtailing the work needed to improve race relations.

zgodt
11-05-2008, 10:30 PM
then prove me wrong smart guy. lets look up how much money obama got from corporations and lobbyists, how much free publicity was given to him by the media as opposed to other canidates. lets see how close obamas voting record holds up to the constitution. obama sucks, hes not a good canidate, and neither was mccain or palin, or 90% of the douchebags who were in the primaries. maybe if you stopped drinking the kool-aid and trying to be a trendy liberal you might someday understand what this country was supposed to be like when the founders made it. you're stuck in an "us vs them" mentality, you think theres a huge difference between the dems and repubs, open your mind man, look at the bigger picture. how much of what obama said last night actually had substance to it?

and about the comedians. if a white man put on black face paint and went around with a bucket of KFC and a watermelon saying "oh lawdy lawdy lawdy" he would be called a racist motherfucker. but dave chapelle can put on white makeup, a wig, and do the routine and its just fucking hilarious isnt it? but now that a black man got elected president i guess that double standard isnt going to fly anymore.

-------------
and CoS, just because there was a full republican government doesnt mean we need the polar opposite. one extreme doesnt mean we need to go to the other to fix it. do we take people who are burning to death and throw them in the middle of the ocean? and i seriously hope you were not trying to imply im a racist...

----------
ADD, he is a pop icon and thats a problem. politicians shouldnt be "cool" like MTV celebrities. they have a very serious job to do and people shouldnt vote based on a who has coolness factor.
Settle down man. I can see the rabid spittle spraying your screen while you type. And worse, you're not making sense. "lets see how close obamas voting record holds up to the constitution." What does that even mean, dude? You have some constitutional geiger counter that we can check congressional votes with? 'Cause if so, get one of them things to Antonin Scalia stat!

I'm not drinking colorful sugar water, and I'm not deluded about the ideological narrowness of mainstream politics in our two party system. (Not that it should matter, but if you care to know I was active in the local Green Party in the 90s, and agitated on behalf of Nader's candidacy in 1996; and even this year I did not vote a straight party ticket.) You seem to be dwelling on some ideological fringe where the only candidate worth supporting is an unelectable one. You can't become President in modern America without raising corporate money. You just can't. And that sucks, yeah. Blame the Supreme Court when they ruled decades ago that corporations have the same rights as individual citizens and that money is a form of free speech. But that's the world we have. So to cite his receipt of corporate money as some big bugaboo that makes him a deplorable candidate, you simply aren't living in the world.

"how much of what obama said last night actually had substance to it?" Depends on what you mean by substance, I guess. I think it was rich with substance. I think words and ideas matter. And his speech was powerful with ideas, ideas which one would hope show something about how he intends to govern. Were you expecting concrete policy proposals from the man 10 minutes after the polls closed? Don't be silly. But read the speech again. He was eloquent on the challenges the country is facing, and how they affect real people, and how hard it will be to tackle them. That alone is such a huge shift in tone and focus from anything we've had for... well, for longer than I can remember. And so yes -- that is something to genuinely get excited about, hopeful about.

Will he ultimately be an amazing president? Who the hell knows. But to sit there and say "Obama sucks" before he's even been inaugurated, to say he has no substance before he's had a chance to actually start doing anything? Who's supposed to be drinking this proverbial Kool-aid again? How about you wait and see what the man does before you start lambasting him, eh?

-----

You are so off base on the comedian thing. The reasons for what you see as a double standard are based on history and on the ongoing imbalance of power between whites and blacks. We live in a country where to this day the racism that matters (in terms of real power, real consequences) is the racism of white people against people of color.

(I mean, this should be obvious. Black cops aren't gunning down white teenagers when they reach in their coat for their wallet, or raping white suspects with a plunger. And white people don't get harsher criminal sentences than black people for committing exactly the same crimes, or still have a harder time getting equal access to education. AND -- to cite an example with explicit relevance to your Chappelle complaint -- black people did not historically humiliate white people by putting on whiteface and doing minstrel shows mocking them as basically inhuman, thus justifying all kinds of tyranny from segregation to lynchings. No, it's all the other way around.)

So the entire basis for your complaint is simplistic nonsense. Black comedians can rightfully "get away with" things that white comedians rightfully can't, because the social situation of blacks and whites in this country are different.

And one man getting elected to one office does not change that.

hot_turkey_ed
11-05-2008, 10:54 PM
Just a friendly reminder for all... play nice.

:allan:

zgodt
11-05-2008, 10:56 PM
Just a friendly reminder for all... play nice.

:allan:

Yes! A warning on my first day back! :bliss:

Good to see you Pavo.

ChildrenofSodom
11-06-2008, 04:30 AM
It pisses me off when people say things like Dave Chappelle being allowed to be in white face is offensive, or that it isnt fair that there isn't a W.E.T. (White Entertainment Television.) Or why black people can say nigger, but whites cant.

It all has to do with white privilege. Not only are whites privileged by the fact that they weren't in bondage 150 years ago, but since then, white has been the dominant, default status in America. Why is it unacceptable to make a WET channel? Because every other fucking channel besides BET is white entertainment television. Why cant we call black people niggers? Because the last time we did that, we had whips in our hands. Why can black people make fun of white people more openly than the opposite? Because for 400 years, and continuing to this very day, white, straight, Protestant men have enjoyed a privelege above everyone else. (EDIT:) White Americans have held exclusivity in land ownership, immigration, government, and the voting booth throughout our entire history, but NOW you raise your voice when blacks final gain some exclusivity in the realm of comedy?

It is insane to say that blacks cant live in a certain neighborhood, or they have to sit in a certain area, or drink from a certain fountain, or go to a certain school....and then when they try to take the upper hand, by making a few funny jokes, it becomes racist?

White People have this privilege that their only real troubles when it comes to race are jokes, few and far between, on the TV.

zgodt
11-06-2008, 05:24 AM
It pisses me off when people say things like Dave Chappelle being allowed to be in white face is offensive, or that it isnt fair that there isnt a W.E.T. (White Entertainment Television.) Or why black people can say nigger, but whites cant.

It all has to do with white privelege. Not only are whites priveleged by the fact that they werent in bondage 150 years ago, but since then, white has been the dominant, default status in America. Why is it unacceptable to make a WET channel? Because every other fucking channel besides BET is white entertainment television. Why cant we call black people niggers? Because the last time we did that, we had whips in our hands. Why can black people make fun of white people more openly than the opposite? Because for 400 years, and continuing to this very day, white, straight, Protestant men have enjoyed a privelege above everyone else.

It is insane to say that blacks cant live in a certain neighborhood, or they have to sit in a certain area, or drink from a certain fountain, or go to a certain school....and then when they try to take the upper hand, by making a few funny jokes, it becomes racist?

White People have this privelege that their only real troubles when it comes to race are jokes, few and far between, on the TV.

Well said!

What have you been eating / reading since last time I was here? ;)

Maiden33
11-06-2008, 07:52 AM
This topic is so delicious to watch from afar. I'd weigh in, but I don't feel like getting involved.

ChildrenofSodom
11-06-2008, 09:08 AM
well not like it never happened. i think they should just let it go. it's over now and thank god we are not still like that.

Ignoring the presence of race means that you ignore the consequences of racism.

ChildrenofSodom
11-06-2008, 09:17 AM
Well said!

What have you been eating / reading since last time I was here? ;)

I've been doing a little amateur research in sociology, racism in particular. I'm reading White Like Me by Tim Wise. I've also been studying some videos fo Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, and Reverend Wright. I voted for Cynthia McKinney for president, and find alot of what she has to say to be interesting. Not to mention I have been listening almost exclusively to rap the past few months. Immortal Technique, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, The Game, Nas, Fort Minor, Tupac, etc.

SomewhereInTime72
11-06-2008, 10:00 AM
It pisses me off when people say things like Dave Chappelle being allowed to be in white face is offensive, or that it isnt fair that there isnt a W.E.T. (White Entertainment Television.) Or why black people can say nigger, but whites cant.

It all has to do with white privelege. Not only are whites priveleged by the fact that they werent in bondage 150 years ago, but since then, white has been the dominant, default status in America. Why is it unacceptable to make a WET channel? Because every other fucking channel besides BET is white entertainment television. Why cant we call black people niggers? Because the last time we did that, we had whips in our hands. Why can black people make fun of white people more openly than the opposite? Because for 400 years, and continuing to this very day, white, straight, Protestant men have enjoyed a privelege above everyone else.

It is insane to say that blacks cant live in a certain neighborhood, or they have to sit in a certain area, or drink from a certain fountain, or go to a certain school....and then when they try to take the upper hand, by making a few funny jokes, it becomes racist?

White People have this privelege that their only real troubles when it comes to race are jokes, few and far between, on the TV.

I'm impressed. :party:

JRA
11-06-2008, 01:25 PM
Not to mention I have been listening almost exclusively to rap the past few months. Immortal Technique, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, The Game, Nas, Fort Minor, Tupac, etc.


Too bad you've only been listening to the new album and not Illmatic (which might cos your head to explode from so much science being dropped).

Div
11-06-2008, 01:59 PM
Settle down man. I can see the rabid spittle spraying your screen while you type. And worse, you're not making sense. "lets see how close obamas voting record holds up to the constitution." What does that even mean, dude? You have some constitutional geiger counter that we can check congressional votes with? 'Cause if so, get one of them things to Antonin Scalia stat!

I'm not drinking colorful sugar water, and I'm not deluded about the ideological narrowness of mainstream politics in our two party system. (Not that it should matter, but if you care to know I was active in the local Green Party in the 90s, and agitated on behalf of Nader's candidacy in 1996; and even this year I did not vote a straight party ticket.) You seem to be dwelling on some ideological fringe where the only candidate worth supporting is an unelectable one. You can't become President in modern America without raising corporate money. You just can't. And that sucks, yeah. Blame the Supreme Court when they ruled decades ago that corporations have the same rights as individual citizens and that money is a form of free speech. But that's the world we have. So to cite his receipt of corporate money as some big bugaboo that makes him a deplorable candidate, you simply aren't living in the world.

"how much of what obama said last night actually had substance to it?" Depends on what you mean by substance, I guess. I think it was rich with substance. I think words and ideas matter. And his speech was powerful with ideas, ideas which one would hope show something about how he intends to govern. Were you expecting concrete policy proposals from the man 10 minutes after the polls closed? Don't be silly. But read the speech again. He was eloquent on the challenges the country is facing, and how they affect real people, and how hard it will be to tackle them. That alone is such a huge shift in tone and focus from anything we've had for... well, for longer than I can remember. And so yes -- that is something to genuinely get excited about, hopeful about.

Will he ultimately be an amazing president? Who the hell knows. But to sit there and say "Obama sucks" before he's even been inaugurated, to say he has no substance before he's had a chance to actually start doing anything? Who's supposed to be drinking this proverbial Kool-aid again? How about you wait and see what the man does before you start lambasting him, eh?

-----

You are so off base on the comedian thing. The reasons for what you see as a double standard are based on history and on the ongoing imbalance of power between whites and blacks. We live in a country where to this day the racism that matters (in terms of real power, real consequences) is the racism of white people against people of color.

(I mean, this should be obvious. Black cops aren't gunning down white teenagers when they reach in their coat for their wallet, or raping white suspects with a plunger. And white people don't get harsher criminal sentences than black people for committing exactly the same crimes, or still have a harder time getting equal access to education. AND -- to cite an example with explicit relevance to your Chappelle complaint -- black people did not historically humiliate white people by putting on whiteface and doing minstrel shows mocking them as basically inhuman, thus justifying all kinds of tyranny from segregation to lynchings. No, it's all the other way around.)

So the entire basis for your complaint is simplistic nonsense. Black comedians can rightfully "get away with" things that white comedians rightfully can't, because the social situation of blacks and whites in this country are different.

And one man getting elected to one office does not change that.


I meant to reply to this last night but my internet went out and my post was lost, I'll try to recollect what I had typed.

I hate to be the one who comes in and has to crash the party, because I'm really a pretty laid back guy and I don't get upset over much, but someone has to provide an opposing viewpoint. But let me say that I am very idealistic when it comes to politics and I don't have much wiggle room for "lets wait and see". Politicians, no government in general, has been the main enemy of human rights throughout all of history. Government is responsible for billions of deaths. The institution of government is not, and has never, been your friend, it has to be watched carefully and held to very strict standards. So when I see people ignoring flaws and acting like everything is all hunky dory it makes me worried.

I didn't expect Obama to lay out his 4 year plan in that speech, but you can't take politicians at face value, people should know this by now. First off, he didn't write that speech, barely any politicians do, so to me those words have no meaning because he's not the one who sat down and put his heart into writing it.

Thinking back to the primary debates over a year ago, aside from Hillary, Obama was the most agressive person on the stage when it came to the war, now he's hailed as a harbinger of peace. How quickly people forget. His voting record, his short voting record, is inconsistent to things he says on tv. For someone to change their positions in such a short amount of time makes me very skeptical that he actually means what he says, or has he just been talking out his ass to get votes? People shouldn't be so quick to crown a champion.

------------

And, I'm sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. To say that one group of people have a "right" to mock others is so far off base I can't believe I have to explain this. The Bill of Rights states that we all have freedom of speech, regardless of race. By making it socially acceptable for one group of people to mock another one is only stoking the fire and keeping racism alive, if not promoting it. Generalized thinking is the biggest problem with human nature, and those "jokes" do nothing but generalize. There's no justice in saying that just because I was born with white skin, that I should be subject to ridicule, and not be allowed to find that offensive, even though my ancestors had nothing to do with oppression. And aside from some poor saps who've been manipulated into feeling "white guilt" I don't see why anyone else should tolerate it either. Either all groups can mock each other, or noone can do it.

The equality of human rights can't progress when we keep old ghosts around to provoke discriminatory thinking.

SomewhereInTime72
11-06-2008, 03:38 PM
And, I'm sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. To say that one group of people have a "right" to mock others is so far off base I can't believe I have to explain this. The Bill of Rights states that we all have freedom of speech, regardless of race. By making it socially acceptable for one group of people to mock another one is only stoking the fire and keeping racism alive, if not promoting it. Generalized thinking is the biggest problem with human nature, and those "jokes" do nothing but generalize. There's no justice in saying that just because I was born with white skin, that I should be subject to ridicule, and not be allowed to find that offensive, even though my ancestors had nothing to do with oppression. And aside from some poor saps who've been manipulated into feeling "white guilt" I don't see why anyone else should tolerate it either. Either all groups can mock each other, or noone can do it.

The equality of human rights can't progress when we keep old ghosts around to provoke discriminatory thinking.

How can you find that offensive, though?

ChildrenofSodom
11-06-2008, 04:52 PM
And, I'm sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. To say that one group of people have a "right" to mock others is so far off base I can't believe I have to explain this. The Bill of Rights states that we all have freedom of speech, regardless of race. By making it socially acceptable for one group of people to mock another one is only stoking the fire and keeping racism alive, if not promoting it. Generalized thinking is the biggest problem with human nature, and those "jokes" do nothing but generalize. There's no justice in saying that just because I was born with white skin, that I should be subject to ridicule, and not be allowed to find that offensive, even though my ancestors had nothing to do with oppression. And aside from some poor saps who've been manipulated into feeling "white guilt" I don't see why anyone else should tolerate it either. Either all groups can mock each other, or noone can do it.

The equality of human rights can't progress when we keep old ghosts around to provoke discriminatory thinking.

I would agree with you, except for a few things.

1) You, along with many other white people, seem to become vocal about blacks making fun of whites, waving a flag of racial equality, while you remain quiet on almost every other racial injustice out there. That ignorance, or rather, avoidance, of the issue makes your concerns seem less relevant.

2) To say that government never has and never can be your friend is antithetical to the very definition of government. What else is the government there for than to take care of us and protect us, in a variety of situations. You can debate what those situations are, but you cant say the government is your enemy without advocating anarchy.

3) You're right that the Bill of Rights grants us freedom of speech. The first amendment prohibits the government from interfering. It makes no mention of what society or culture does or can do.

4) Maybe your ancestors didnt oppress people. Maybe they didnt own slaves, or openly discriminate. My didnt, that I know of. But the color of your skin has UNDOUBTEDLY given you advantages over your black or brown or yellow or red counterparts. You can't say that race doesnt matter when you and your family wouldnt be where they are right now without their skin being white. It is a privelege for white folks to not know about racism. It is a privelege for us to turn look away whenever we want, whereas nonwhites can never do that.

ChildrenofSodom
11-06-2008, 05:05 PM
How can you find that offensive, though?

I think that it is hilarious when black people make fun of white people. Because it is usually true, whatever they say!

That isnt offensive. It is offensive when my 3rd grade brother is called a nigger by his classmate. It is offensive when my black stepdad, a city employee, is pulled over by a local police officer while driving a city truck, and asked "where he got the truck." It is offensive when a group of neo-Nazis goes to the local board of education every month and demands that the two black students be expelled. It is offensive when a local realtor openly assures you that they dont 'sell to blacks and Jews.' It is offensive when white students hang nooses in the tree outside the high school. It is offensive when a group of Republicans hands out 'Obama bucks' covered in watermelon and fried chicken. It is offensive when the largest number of housing discrimination claims isnt in the 1950s or 1960s, but in 2006. It is offensive when blacks are kept from voting by armed militias, reading tests, poll taxes, segregation, intimidation. It is offensive when our prisons are full of drug users, 80% of which are black, when blacks only make up 10-20% of drug users.

It is offensive when a group of police officers are shown two pictures and asked for their opinion. The first is of a black male in a nice car, with large rims. Their response is unanimously 'drug dealer.' Then a white male is shown in a similar sports car, and their response is unanimously 'rich daddy bought son a b-day present.' It is offensive when a black man sits in jail for 30 years for a rape he didnt perform. It is offensive when dozens of school shootings occur in the ghetto every year without any media attention, but when a white school is shot-up, 'it wasnt supposed to happen here.'

These are all examples that are applicable to the past 3 years. I ignored the kidnapping of Africans, their enslavement, their Christianization, their loss of culture, they division of families. It is offensive when you are given a school assignment to look up your ancestry, and the farthest you can go back is 150 years, and even then you only find the last name of your grandfather's white owner. I ignored the Klan, the White League, Jim Crow Laws, sharecropping, wage slavery, lynching, church bombings, segregation even in the military, anti-mixed race marriage laws, the US government giving scores of black men syphillis for scientific study in Tuskegee, the forced sterilization of minority women in abortion clinics. The support the United States has given to drug and arms dealers in South and Latin America, whose products have found their way onto our streets. I ignored the CIA surveillance of the Black Panthers. I left out alot of stuff.

What, pray tell, offends you Mike, as a white person?

rjturtle9
11-06-2008, 07:32 PM
It pisses me off when people say things like Dave Chappelle being allowed to be in white face is offensive, or that it isnt fair that there isnt a W.E.T. (White Entertainment Television.) Or why black people can say nigger, but whites cant.

It all has to do with white privelege. Not only are whites priveleged by the fact that they werent in bondage 150 years ago, but since then, white has been the dominant, default status in America. Why is it unacceptable to make a WET channel? Because every other fucking channel besides BET is white entertainment television. Why cant we call black people niggers? Because the last time we did that, we had whips in our hands. Why can black people make fun of white people more openly than the opposite? Because for 400 years, and continuing to this very day, white, straight, Protestant men have enjoyed a privelege above everyone else.

It is insane to say that blacks cant live in a certain neighborhood, or they have to sit in a certain area, or drink from a certain fountain, or go to a certain school....and then when they try to take the upper hand, by making a few funny jokes, it becomes racist?

White People have this privelege that their only real troubles when it comes to race are jokes, few and far between, on the TV.

this is kinda sorta what i was trying to say. but since i'm a high school senior with bad english skills, my points come off weak :(

Sinfulsot
11-06-2008, 09:41 PM
How can you find that offensive, though?

I think that it is hilarious when black people make fun of white people. Because it is usually true, whatever they say!

That isnt offensive. It is offensive when my 3rd grade brother is called a nigger by his classmate. It is offensive when my black stepdad, a city employee, is pulled over by a local police officer while driving a city truck, and asked "where he got the truck." It is offensive when a group of neo-Nazis goes to the local board of education every month and demands that the two black students be expelled. It is offensive when a local realtor openly assures you that they dont 'sell to blacks and Jews.' It is offensive when white students hang nooses in the tree outside the high school. It is offensive when a group of Republicans hands out 'Obama bucks' covered in watermelon and fried chicken. It is offensive when the largest number of housing discrimination claims isnt in the 1950s or 1960s, but in 2006. It is offensive when blacks are kept from voting by armed militias, reading tests, poll taxes, segregation, intimidation. It is offensive when our prisons are full of drug users, 80% of which are black, when blacks only make up 10-20% of drug users.

It is offensive when a group of police officers are shown two pictures and asked for their opinion. The first is of a black male in a nice car, with large rims. Their response is unanimously 'drug dealer.' Then a white male is shown in a similar sports car, and their response is unanimously 'rich daddy bought son a b-day present.' It is offensive when a black man sits in jail for 30 years for a rape he didnt perform. It is offensive when dozens of school shootings occur in the ghetto every year without any media attention, but when a white school is shot-up, 'it wasnt supposed to happen here.'

These are all examples that are applicable to the past 3 years. I ignored the kidnapping of Africans, their enslavement, their Christianization, their loss of culture, they division of families. It is offensive when you are given a school assignment to look up your ancestry, and the farthest you can go back 150 years, and even then you only find the last name of your grandfather's white owner. I ignored the Klan, the White League, Jim Crow Laws, sharecropping, wage slavery, lynching, church bombings, segregation even in the military, anti-mixed race marriage laws, the US government giving scores of black men syphillis for scientific study in Tuskegee, the forced sterilization of minority women in abortion clinics. The support the United States has given to drug and arms dealers in South and Latin America, whose products have found their way onto our streets. I ignored the CIA surveillance of the Black Panthers. I left out alot of stuff.

What, pray tell, offends you Mike, as a white person?

Very well said!! :party: :bowdown:

zgodt
11-06-2008, 11:38 PM
I think that it is hilarious when black people make fun of white people. Because it is usually true, whatever they say!

That isnt offensive. It is offensive when my 3rd grade brother is called a nigger by his classmate. It is offensive when my black stepdad, a city employee, is pulled over by a local police officer while driving a city truck, and asked "where he got the truck." It is offensive when a group of neo-Nazis goes to the local board of education every month and demands that the two black students be expelled. It is offensive when a local realtor openly assures you that they dont 'sell to blacks and Jews.' It is offensive when white students hang nooses in the tree outside the high school. It is offensive when a group of Republicans hands out 'Obama bucks' covered in watermelon and fried chicken. It is offensive when the largest number of housing discrimination claims isnt in the 1950s or 1960s, but in 2006. It is offensive when blacks are kept from voting by armed militias, reading tests, poll taxes, segregation, intimidation. It is offensive when our prisons are full of drug users, 80% of which are black, when blacks only make up 10-20% of drug users.

It is offensive when a group of police officers are shown two pictures and asked for their opinion. The first is of a black male in a nice car, with large rims. Their response is unanimously 'drug dealer.' Then a white male is shown in a similar sports car, and their response is unanimously 'rich daddy bought son a b-day present.' It is offensive when a black man sits in jail for 30 years for a rape he didnt perform. It is offensive when dozens of school shootings occur in the ghetto every year without any media attention, but when a white school is shot-up, 'it wasnt supposed to happen here.'

These are all examples that are applicable to the past 3 years. I ignored the kidnapping of Africans, their enslavement, their Christianization, their loss of culture, they division of families. It is offensive when you are given a school assignment to look up your ancestry, and the farthest you can go back 150 years, and even then you only find the last name of your grandfather's white owner. I ignored the Klan, the White League, Jim Crow Laws, sharecropping, wage slavery, lynching, church bombings, segregation even in the military, anti-mixed race marriage laws, the US government giving scores of black men syphillis for scientific study in Tuskegee, the forced sterilization of minority women in abortion clinics. The support the United States has given to drug and arms dealers in South and Latin America, whose products have found their way onto our streets. I ignored the CIA surveillance of the Black Panthers. I left out alot of stuff.

What, pray tell, offends you Mike, as a white person?

Dude, I love you now.

zgodt
11-06-2008, 11:50 PM
I hate to be the one who comes in and has to crash the party, because I'm really a pretty laid back guy and I don't get upset over much, but someone has to provide an opposing viewpoint. But let me say that I am very idealistic when it comes to politics and I don't have much wiggle room for "lets wait and see". Politicians, no government in general, has been the main enemy of human rights throughout all of history. Government is responsible for billions of deaths. The institution of government is not, and has never, been your friend, it has to be watched carefully and held to very strict standards. So when I see people ignoring flaws and acting like everything is all hunky dory it makes me worried.

I didn't expect Obama to lay out his 4 year plan in that speech, but you can't take politicians at face value, people should know this by now. First off, he didn't write that speech, barely any politicians do, so to me those words have no meaning because he's not the one who sat down and put his heart into writing it.

Thinking back to the primary debates over a year ago, aside from Hillary, Obama was the most agressive person on the stage when it came to the war, now he's hailed as a harbinger of peace. How quickly people forget. His voting record, his short voting record, is inconsistent to things he says on tv. For someone to change their positions in such a short amount of time makes me very skeptical that he actually means what he says, or has he just been talking out his ass to get votes? People shouldn't be so quick to crown a champion.

------------

And, I'm sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. To say that one group of people have a "right" to mock others is so far off base I can't believe I have to explain this. The Bill of Rights states that we all have freedom of speech, regardless of race. By making it socially acceptable for one group of people to mock another one is only stoking the fire and keeping racism alive, if not promoting it. Generalized thinking is the biggest problem with human nature, and those "jokes" do nothing but generalize. There's no justice in saying that just because I was born with white skin, that I should be subject to ridicule, and not be allowed to find that offensive, even though my ancestors had nothing to do with oppression. And aside from some poor saps who've been manipulated into feeling "white guilt" I don't see why anyone else should tolerate it either. Either all groups can mock each other, or noone can do it.

The equality of human rights can't progress when we keep old ghosts around to provoke discriminatory thinking.
It's cool for you to provide an opposing viewpoint. I think "devil's advocate" is an honorable and necessary role. And challenging predominant opinions is what freedom of speech is all about. So, in that regard, kudos and respect.

Now what you say about government is true to a point, sure, but all governments are obviously not equal. And the USA's is, at least theoretically and ostensibly, a government of/by/for the people. We are not ruled by kings or dictators -- we choose our representatives and they are charged with the duty of carrying out our will, and if they fail we get to replace them every so often. I mean, that's the whole point of a democratic republic. If our government turns out to be evil, that's our responsibility in many respects because we are the ones who voted them to power. If we vote for representatives who truly will best carry out our hopes, then why can't government possibly be our friend? Of course we can still watch Obama closely and hold him to high standards. But it's a little hard to do those things before he's even inaugurated.

How do you know he didn't write his speech? I mean, you may be right -- I haven't a clue -- but I get the impression that Obama's involved in his speechwriting to a greater degree than, say, GW was involved.

I don't remember this warmongering you seem to have seen on Obama's part.

On race and racism, it is you who is flat out wrong. But COS has laid out the case more extensively and eloquently than my tired ass is capable of right now -- so read his post.

And god bless you.

Derelict
11-07-2008, 02:59 PM
Racial discussion aside, the two people chosen so far for the administration (Emmanuel and Biden) are complete and utter corporate tools, with the added bonus of both of them being warhawks. Hope/Change indeed

SomewhereInTime72
11-07-2008, 03:57 PM
小浜

Div
11-07-2008, 04:35 PM
I would agree with you, except for a few things.

1) You, along with many other white people, seem to become vocal about blacks making fun of whites, waving a flag of racial equality, while you remain quiet on almost every other racial injustice out there. That ignorance, or rather, avoidance, of the issue makes your concerns seem less relevant.

2) To say that government never has and never can be your friend is antithetical to the very definition of government. What else is the government there for than to take care of us and protect us, in a variety of situations. You can debate what those situations are, but you cant say the government is your enemy without advocating anarchy.

3) You're right that the Bill of Rights grants us freedom of speech. The first amendment prohibits the government from interfering. It makes no mention of what society or culture does or can do.

4) Maybe your ancestors didnt oppress people. Maybe they didnt own slaves, or openly discriminate. My didnt, that I know of. But the color of your skin has UNDOUBTEDLY given you advantages over your black or brown or yellow or red counterparts. You can't say that race doesnt matter when you and your family wouldnt be where they are right now without their skin being white. It is a privelege for white folks to not know about racism. It is a privelege for us to turn look away whenever we want, whereas nonwhites can never do that.

the color of my skin has given me advantages? please tell me what being white has ever gotten me or my family. my dad's father left right after he was born, never did anything for his family, and the only time my dad saw his father was when he visited him in jail one time as a boy. shows you that this type of thing doesnt only happen to blacks. he's been unlawfully detained by police and not allowed to make phone calls. shows that crooked cops dont just give blacks a hard time. my dad is a sheet metal draftsman in nyc, designs the ductwork systems for skyscrapers. he worked his way up from being a tin knocker who installs the duct to a nice office job where he designs it, and his co-workers are not all white men either. shows that race didn't play a role in getting him to were he is. as for me, race didnt play a role in getting me into a public highschool, it didnt play a role in me getting accepted to a community college, and the university im at now is the most diverse in the entire country, if not the world, so race didnt play any roles in getting me here either.

so im going to have to call bullshit on that argument.


oh, and for argument 1.) are you saying just cause im not an activist about every racial issue means i dont care/my opinion doesnt matter? what if a black boy complained about racism but he didnt go about being an activist, would that make his arguments ignorant aswell?

I think that it is hilarious when black people make fun of white people. Because it is usually true, whatever they say!

That isnt offensive. It is offensive when my 3rd grade brother is called a nigger by his classmate. It is offensive when my black stepdad, a city employee, is pulled over by a local police officer while driving a city truck, and asked "where he got the truck." It is offensive when a group of neo-Nazis goes to the local board of education every month and demands that the two black students be expelled. It is offensive when a local realtor openly assures you that they dont 'sell to blacks and Jews.' It is offensive when white students hang nooses in the tree outside the high school. It is offensive when a group of Republicans hands out 'Obama bucks' covered in watermelon and fried chicken. It is offensive when the largest number of housing discrimination claims isnt in the 1950s or 1960s, but in 2006. It is offensive when blacks are kept from voting by armed militias, reading tests, poll taxes, segregation, intimidation. It is offensive when our prisons are full of drug users, 80% of which are black, when blacks only make up 10-20% of drug users.

It is offensive when a group of police officers are shown two pictures and asked for their opinion. The first is of a black male in a nice car, with large rims. Their response is unanimously 'drug dealer.' Then a white male is shown in a similar sports car, and their response is unanimously 'rich daddy bought son a b-day present.' It is offensive when a black man sits in jail for 30 years for a rape he didnt perform. It is offensive when dozens of school shootings occur in the ghetto every year without any media attention, but when a white school is shot-up, 'it wasnt supposed to happen here.'

These are all examples that are applicable to the past 3 years. I ignored the kidnapping of Africans, their enslavement, their Christianization, their loss of culture, they division of families. It is offensive when you are given a school assignment to look up your ancestry, and the farthest you can go back is 150 years, and even then you only find the last name of your grandfather's white owner. I ignored the Klan, the White League, Jim Crow Laws, sharecropping, wage slavery, lynching, church bombings, segregation even in the military, anti-mixed race marriage laws, the US government giving scores of black men syphillis for scientific study in Tuskegee, the forced sterilization of minority women in abortion clinics. The support the United States has given to drug and arms dealers in South and Latin America, whose products have found their way onto our streets. I ignored the CIA surveillance of the Black Panthers. I left out alot of stuff.

first off, the CIA spies on EVERYONE. second, the black panthers were aggressively antagonistic. MLK's ideas were much better, and in the end yielded more pwoerful results. for black people to have fought aggression with aggression would have ended in disaster for their movement. infact, the black panthers left a negative mark on black history because whenever people hear that name they think of the group from the 60's and 70's and not the brave 671st tank battalion from WW2 that they stole the name from.


What, pray tell, offends you Mike, as a white person?

shitty metal


-------------------

Scott, it seems that our conflict simply comes down to a disagreement in our core philosophies. I suppose we'll have to leave it at that.

Sinfulsot
11-08-2008, 07:01 PM
Racial discussion aside, the two people chosen so far for the administration (Emmanuel and Biden) are complete and utter corporate tools, with the added bonus of both of them being warhawks. Hope/Change indeed

Emmanuel was the one that spread the word not to speak to Colbert.

Maiden33
11-09-2008, 09:54 AM
this is kinda sorta what i was trying to say. but since i'm a high school senior with bad english skills, my points come off weak :(

Children of Sodom is also a High School Senior. Can't say anything about his English skills though. :D