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View Full Version : What does Sleep have that Trivium doesn't?


JRA
10-21-2008, 03:24 PM
One album I've been listening to a lot lately is Sleep's Holy Mountain. While I do like it alot, it is more or less a carbon copy of Black Sabbath's sound. Yet Sleep are treated by the underground as "legends of doom metal."

Trivium on the other hand...now I don't own a single Trivium record, I've heard a few songs here and there, and most of what I heard I liked, aside from the cliche metalcore vocals. Then Matt Heafy decides to sing like James Hetfield, and dare I say, he pulled it off flawlessly. Then when "The Crusade" comes out, that same underground goes "BAAAAAAW, they sound exactly like Metallica, they're ripping them off, BAAAAAW!"

Here's another thing both bands have in common. Sleep came around in the 90's when Black Sabbath's classic 70's sound was long gone, and there were diehard fans of that sound who wanted more. Same story with Trivium and Metallica. Yes there are some people who have been waiting since 1987 for a Metallica album with a "down to the t" Master Of Puppets sound, with the old vocal style, old guitar tones etc. But that hasn't happened. Yet Trivium apparently pulled that off without even trying (with much better drumming to boot might I add) and they get nothing but shit for it.

It's two bands doing the exact same thing. So why are Sleep worshipped as Gods whereas as Trivium are written off as posers? Because Sleep came out in the 90's? Because of the way Trivium dress? Because Trivium are better looking that 3/4 of most metalheads?

ravenheart
10-21-2008, 03:30 PM
While I'm not going to voice my own opinions of Sleep and Trivium, what I will say is I really don't get why everyone says The Crusade sounds like Metallica. I don't hear it in the slightest, vocals or otherwise. It's just incredibly ordinary, and really rather boring metal.

Also, if you really want a (very, very good) Sabbath-copy, listen to sHeavy.

rjturtle9
10-21-2008, 03:35 PM
i don't know about trivium, but there's a local band named metal x that puls the metallica sound off pretty good...

ravenheart
10-21-2008, 03:37 PM
Half the new thrash bands around at the moment are carbon copies of the Kill 'em All sound.

SomewhereInTime72
10-21-2008, 04:00 PM
I really don't get why everyone says The Crusade sounds like Metallica. I don't hear it in the slightest, vocals or otherwise. It's just incredibly ordinary, and really rather boring metal.


This! I don't really get it.

But for the sake of the discussion, I will say that people probably aren't willing to give Trivium a chance because they started off as metalcore. Also, bands being older definitely helps. They "stand the test of time" as it's said. :eyes: I don't really care, since I'm not a fan of either band, hehe.

JRA
10-21-2008, 04:02 PM
Well, I guess most elitist metalheads like the fact that Matt was singing as opposed to that tired old hardcore barking. It kinda sounds like old Hetifeld.

TonyD
10-21-2008, 04:37 PM
It can be explained with the same reason that Pantera isn't remembered as "the band that sounds like Exhorder"- musical quality.
Other than the vocals, I couldn't hear much in common to Metallica either.

TonyD
10-21-2008, 04:38 PM
Half the new thrash bands around at the moment are carbon copies of the Kill 'em All sound.

Any names?

rjturtle9
10-21-2008, 04:52 PM
Half the new thrash bands around at the moment are carbon copies of the Kill 'em All sound.

well not really

rjturtle9
10-21-2008, 04:53 PM
Any names?

hey check out metal x. they are not carbon copies, but thy are pretty good. i'll say master of puppets stuff.

mankvill
10-21-2008, 05:36 PM
Metalcore is a helluva drug.

TonyD
10-21-2008, 05:47 PM
hey check out metal x. they are not carbon copies, but thy are pretty good. i'll say master of puppets stuff.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e158/lazyboydotcom/Metal%20X%20Myspace/ANTHONYLOKS-1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e158/lazyboydotcom/Metal%20X%20Myspace/SAPOLOKS-1.jpg

This explains a lot, especially the pose.

Div
10-21-2008, 05:49 PM
Trivium sucks.

Sinfulsot
10-21-2008, 08:48 PM
It's two bands doing the exact same thing. So why are Sleep worshipped as Gods whereas as Trivium are written off as posers? Because Sleep came out in the 90's? Because of the way Trivium dress? Because Trivium are better looking that 3/4 of most metalheads?

while i am unfamiliar with Sleep (note to self: check it out), trivium catching shit for sounding like Metallica could be partly because if it's cool to talk shit about Metallica, then talking shit about any band that sounds like Metallica would be just as cool.

I like Trivium, especially when the vocals evolved toward more singing and less barking/growling. I also think their vocals are actually quite strong with the bassist's (Paolo i think) more melodic singing, Corey's spot on growl, and Heafy somewhere in the middle.

ravenheart
10-22-2008, 01:26 AM
Any names?

Can't really remember them. I was checking out a bunch of the new thrash bands and dismissed all the boring ones.

I seem to remember thinking Bonded By Blood, Dekapitator, SSS, Fueled By Fire, Gama Bomb, etc all sucked. Most of the ones on Earache apart from Evile and Municipal Waste.


On the Trivium issue, as soon as I heard people saying they'd dropped the metalcore shit on The Crusade I was all over giving them a chance again. Listened to it, still thought it sucked, just in a different way. And sounded nothing like Metallica, not that that was what I particularly wanted.

I've not seen them live since 'the change', but will next week when they play between Mastodon and Slayer on the Unholy Alliance Tour.

TonyD
10-22-2008, 12:39 PM
between Mastodon and Slayer on the Unholy Alliance Tour.

Pissbreak

rjturtle9
10-22-2008, 02:48 PM
This explains a lot, especially the pose.

haha hey man i go to school with the bassist.

ADD
10-22-2008, 08:13 PM
Well firstly Matt Pike is a guitar god and Matt Heafy sucks, and ripping off Sabbath has never been as trendy as ripping off Metallica. Plus when Sleep got signed to a major label they proceeded to put out a single-song 60 minute album, whereas Trivium completely abandoned their earlier sound and made an album that Roadrunner basically told them to. And putting Sleep and Trivium side-by-side is just depressing in itself :(

Also, Sleep were basically just a group of stoner/hesher kids just kicking around Sabbath riffs at ridiculous volumes not giving a shit about image or anything, whereas Trivium have always been down with the trendy side of underground metal.

JRA
10-23-2008, 06:53 AM
Well firstly Matt Pike is a guitar god and Matt Heafy sucks, and ripping off Sabbath has never been as trendy as ripping off Metallica.

I agree with everything you said except this, the entire stoner movement was made by ripping off Sabbath! :lol: Sounds pretty trendy to me.

Sinfulsot
10-23-2008, 06:55 AM
...whereas Trivium completely abandoned their earlier sound and made an album that Roadrunner basically told them to.

If they totally abandoned their earlier sound, wouldn't they be playing less of the earlier material and focusing more on what Roadrunner told them to write? When I saw them last, they closed with Pull Harder on the Strings of your Martyr, and the crowd was singing along. of course, it sounded like the lyrics from that youTube interpretation, which i can't get out of my head whenever i hear the song.

Div
10-23-2008, 09:23 AM
Well firstly Matt Pike is a guitar god and Matt Heafy sucks, and ripping off Sabbath has never been as trendy as ripping off Metallica. Plus when Sleep got signed to a major label they proceeded to put out a single-song 60 minute album, whereas Trivium completely abandoned their earlier sound and made an album that Roadrunner basically told them to. And putting Sleep and Trivium side-by-side is just depressing in itself :(

Also, Sleep were basically just a group of stoner/hesher kids just kicking around Sabbath riffs at ridiculous volumes not giving a shit about image or anything, whereas Trivium have always been down with the trendy side of underground metal.


exactly, theres a difference between "trying to sound like metallica" and "trying to be metallica", guess which one trivium does? im fed up with this "trendy metal" bullshit. theres alot of these elitists in metal who walk around acting like theyre the most brutal motherfuckers, and then when you look at what bands they rep its always shit like trivium and cradle of filth.

ADD
10-23-2008, 12:24 PM
I agree with everything you said except this, the entire stoner movement was made by ripping off Sabbath! :lol: Sounds pretty trendy to me.

The 'stoner' movement never amounted to anything remotely close to commercial success in the scheme of things, especially compared to what metalcore is today. Yeah in the 90's you had bands like Monster Magnet and Fu Manchu landing big opening spots on national tours and selling a few records, but really the only band that made any real commercial impact (and more than deservedly so) was Kyuss, and even then thats still pretty minimal. And the whole scene itself spawned out in the desert with a bunch of burnout/skater/stoner punks who just liked to jam out and play ballsy heavy rock like in the old days, primarily influenced by Sabbath and stuff. I don't think anyone can really compare that to what the likes of Killswitch Engage, As I Lay Dying, Trivium, Avenged Sevenfold, and a hundred others are/were doing.

TonyD
10-23-2008, 12:35 PM
, but really the only band that made any real commercial impact (and more than deservedly so) was Kyuss, and even then thats still pretty minimal.

The only reason that they are remembered any more than Sleep now is QotSA. Maybe we'll get a movement to get Sleep back together if High on Fire gets more popular and starts putting out sub par records... as unlikely as that would be.