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JRA
06-07-2008, 07:02 PM
I'm gonna post this in parts, cos last time I tried to do it whole, I think I broke the website. :eyes:

When a band is starting out, most respectable fans don't really have an opinion on them beyond whether or not they like them. The best thing for a band to do in the early stages is to keep doing what their doing and their roots audience will come to them naturally. As time goes on, and a band gets bigger, keeping in touch with the fans to help to keep things grounded and on track becomes more and more difficult as it just isn't humanly possible to keep in touch with thousands to millions of fans.

Ever since I've joined the Iron Maiden BB many moons ago, I've discovered Maiden to be one of the most bitched about bands ever. No matter what they fucking do, nothing is good enough to please people. There's a quote I remember from Dave Mustaine talking about politics "when the next president becomes elected, nothing is going to change. You'll have a faction of people who will be really happy and a faction of people who will be really pissed."

Now I'm not really sure how many "parties" there are regarding Iron Maiden's fanbase, and it would be rather trivial to analyze every single one of them. The most relevant factions to today's discussions; about Iron Maiden are those who think they can still put out relevant music, those who think that they can't, those who think that Maiden are an amazing live act, and those who think "Who cares they keep playing the same songs over and over again, and Bruce can't shut his fucking mouth!" All these different viewpoints being waged back and forth on me have kind of taken their toll, and all that negativity can make one question their own beliefs about anything really. Well I've thought it all out and I prepared a nice long drawn out fanboyish disseration on why the last couple of years for Maiden have not been so great for me.

I think the first sign that things were getting a little weird for Maiden was the decision to do Ozzfest. I know Maiden isn't the most talked about band in America, but if you can still sell out a night in Madison Square Garden (even if it was with Motorhead and Dio) and Long Beach, you do not need to hop on a festival.. During this tour, Bruce was doing a series of interviews that basically held the sentiment "Fuck America and its fat, old, self satisfied, Wal-mart loving ass." Complaints saying how there's no one but fat old guys eating hot dogs at American shows, that in Europe the the oldest people they have at their shows are 25 years old, and that they were doing Ozzfest so they could get the young kids back at their shows I still remember the Maiden show I went to back in 2003. I can't remember if me and my friend Adam were the youngest people there, but I do remember that you could not have seen a more disinterested crowd at a concert. Aside from the cheering in between songs, and a few kids I saw walking past our seats to go outside (presumably to drop off the Cosby kids) air drumming to Hallowed Be Thy Name, this was an absolutely dead crowd. And while that wasn't the only date on the "Give Me Ed tour" I'd be willing to bet a decent chunk of cash that Bruce remembers the shittyness of that crowd as much as I do.

So for the most part I didn't have much of a problem with what Bruce said back then, and even today I still don't. For everybody else, a line split down the middle of Maiden's fanbase and spread it like Lindsay Lohan on ecstasy. I racked my brain for what logical arguments the "other side" would have in their anger in Bruce's words. I came up with the following conclusions:

1)The 37 year old Maiden fan who's been a fan since 1983 is a lot more important than the kid who discovered "2 Minutes to Midnight" on Vice City (sorry Lards) 4 years ago. Think for a second about the situation of the former. He is in essence the reason the band is still around today. While he may have more or less settled down and isn't as rowdy as he used to be, that doesn't necessarily mean his dedication to his favorite band has eroded away throughout the years. And you know what, since Bruce's way of measuring a fans dedication in concert is watching said fan scream and yell and go nuts during a show (a reasonable gauge), what makes him think that just because a fan isn't going nuts doesn't mean he isn't enjoying himself? And for that matter, what makes Bruce think that a younger fan always has more energy than an older fan? Let's say Bruce has his eye on two fans; a 50 year old guy and a 20 year old guy. The 50 year old fan is going apeshit and is about 3 heartbeats per minute from having a heart attack, and the 20 year old is merely standing there, but he's still watching the band and nodding his had and smiling. In short, he at least looks like he's enjoying himself. Does Bruce think the at the former fan is "the old guy at the club" who looks like he's enjoying himself way more than he should, and that the younger guy is some stuck up hipster who thinks its "too cool" to go crazy at a concert, so Bruce has to work harder in order to get this guys attention?

Regardless, I think a show attendee is a show attendee, and all of them deserve to be treated with some level of respect. I mean shit, if Bruce is just tossing the older fans aside, can you imagine the younger fans seeing this treatment and thinking "wow, I have that to look forward to." One could argue the fact that if you have no-one but "kids" coming to your show regardless of location, and no adults whatsoever, that makes you a form of "kids entertainment." Last I checked that's not a compliment in show business. I remember reading somewhere that having an adult fanbase helps any artform grow and have longevity. Its probably a reason why there's so many jazz clubs/venues in America, despite the fact that there are practically 0 jazz artists bringing the music to the masses. It's also a reason why artists like New Kids On The Block or Limp Bizkit have a fanbase for 3 or 4 years, then fade into obscurity. Because artists like those have no place for someone in their "adulthood" as they are too juvenille to be take seriously as adults.


2) If young people aren't going to your own shows based on name alone, they're probably not gonna care that you are on a festival aimed at young people. I have two examples to back this up, one is that I remember talking with someone my age about Ozzfest and they said they could care less about Ozzy and that they go strictly for the second stage. The other is my personal Gigantour experience. I had no interest in seeing anyone there other than Overkill and Megadeth, I had already made my mind up about those bands long before I saw them. If you want to call it closed mindedness, I have no problem with that. Alot of America works that way, especially its young people. This is perhaps a hunch, but I have a feeling that the people who reguarly attend Ozzfest listen to a different brand of "metal" than Iron Maiden. And I wouldn't be too far off in assuming that Iron Maiden fans and "Ozzfest kids" (for lack of a better term) are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. These "Ozzfest kids" have probably made up their mind about Iron Maiden whether they've heard them or not. So the idea of doing Ozzfest and thinking its going to win you tons of new young fans is a pointless one. I mean sure, there are probably some people in between those two extremes who were open minded and converted, but I doubt it was enough people to fill up stadiums coast to coast with kids between ages 15-25. But I digress.

My other problem with Maiden being on Ozzfest was the fact that they were sacrificing the potential of one of the greatest ideas they had ever come up with "the Early Days tour" (which I will touch upon later). I say sacrifice, because the set times at Ozzfest are relatively short. Usually the co-headlining band plays just as long if not a little bit longer than Ozzy/Sabbath does. It would be a little upstaging if they did. Iron Maiden usually plays a set from 90 minutes to 2 hours. Going from that down to 70 minutes is quite the sacrifice in concert time. This move would be slightly understandable to save someones career, but a) Iron Maiden's career was not in danger during this time, (It's not as if they were struggling to get into 200 seat venues), and b) Ozzfest didn't really do anything to help their popularity, even the practically forgotten "Eggfest" incident; once that blew over, it didn't seem like the numbers were that different. Proof of this is the fact that when Maiden's new studio album "A Matter Of Life & Death" came out, it went to #6 on the Billboard charts. While it first it might seem like Ozzfest was a success, it isn't if you compare the fact that Slayer's (a "less popular" band than Maiden) most recent album shot straight to #3 and while they have been on Ozzfest a number of times, it's silly to think that its the reason inital album sales were so well. Slayer's accomplishment was based on fan-intertia alone, regardless of Ozzfest, and that is alsoreason why AMOLAD went to were it went and sold what it sold.

Speaking of which, that was the second sign of trouble for Iron Maiden. According to Maiden, "A Matter Of Life & death" was an album that was "the easiest" to make, and because it came together so effortlessly, they think that it was their best album since the reunion! Just because an album is easy to make doesn't make it good. Before we knew it, a whole bunch of PR bullshit came through and it was mindboggling how much good press the album was receiving. Rags like Metal Hammer were giving it a 10 out of 10 (which was so obviously a payoff from Rod Smallwood). My personal thoughts on the album? Well it isn't the worst thing they've ever done, but Bruce deserves a kick in the mouth for even DARING to suggest its in the realm of Piece Of Mind. Anyways, the album was more or less like the last two "reunion albums"; a few regular songs, but a whole fuckload of what seemed to be the "formula" for the new Maiden "epic:" Two minutes of a clean/ acoustic playing with Bruce doing a relaxed vocal, followed by 4 to 6 minutes of an actual song, closing out with a reprise of the previous intro. Practically every fucking long Maiden song after 1992 has sounded like that. Remember when Maiden didn't pull this shit? Go and listen to Where Eagles Dare and Infinite Dreams back to back. Shit, listen to Where Eagles Dare and Revelations back to back. Notice any immideate similarities ? Absolutely not. (and for those of you just waiting to drop the E D C L O L chord sequence, die in a gangrape) Even Fear Of The Dark and Afraid To Shoot Strangers were slightly different from each other. Yet nowadays "Sign Of The Cross" clones are just about the only damn thing Steve Harris can write. Steve claims its his "progressive" influences showing, but according to legend, Steve has always had progressive influences, but he certainly didn't let them get in the way of writing songs that actually sounded metal. Name Iron Maiden post 2000 song, that actually sounds "metal." Not kinda-sorta "Tom Sawyer" hard rock prog, but "Creeping Death" metal. Not to mention the fact that Steve managed to get out of his own way to let other band members contribute songs on their own. Revelations and Powerslave would not exist without Bruce: fact. Yet you ever notice that Steve has his hand in just about every song that Maiden does post reunion? He can't seem to think like the old days where he just let other writers do their own thing without him needing to add "something". His ego has just gotten too damn big! And for those of you saying "well it Steve Harris's band, shouldn't he be allowed to have as much control over his art as he wants?" Well, Steve Harris seems to be an unfortuante case of "complete artistic control gone wrong." I've heard many a complaint about the production of the last few Maiden records and said naysayers point the blame completely at Steve Harris. While I don't personally agree with this statement, I'm afraid I have no rebuttal for the disaster that was the Death On The Road DVD, which if I'm not mistaken was actually LABELED WITH A FUCKING EPILIPSY WARNING on the case and in the movie itself. I'm sorry Steve, but if you're camera direction is giving retarded kids seizures, then you need to back away from the camera, end of conversation. But I digress...

Maiden, music journalists, and I'd imagine a decent chunk of fans seemed to be so "in love" with AMOLAD, that the band thought "oh what the heck, let's play the whole damn thing live." Now defenders of the album will call this a "ballsy move" and "completely unlike anything the band has done," I call it "ego growing to the point where it's eating itself." "OH THE ALBUM IS SO GOOD WE CAN'T POSSIBLY LEAVE OFF ANY TRACKS." Everybody thinks this about whatever new album they create and they want to pat themselves on the back for all the hard work they put into it. It's human nature. Save for a concept album, no band is high strung enough to think they have to play their entire latest work live. They usually bring out 5 or 6 songs, gauge fan reactions, and if its positive enough, bring out the whole thing. Shit, Mastodon wrote a 14 minute piece called Hearts Alive, which I'm sure they were proud of at the time, but it wasn't until the fans were on their knees begging them to play it live that they finally trumpeted it out. Now while I will say that in order for any ego to cause productivity, regardless of size, courage is required to use it (balls if you must), but somewhere along the way it becomes apparent that this is not courage in the face of adversity, this is a massive amount of self-love that just wants to please itself. One particular slap in the face was when Nicko McBrain was doing a phone interview with Eddie Trunk and regarding the live Maiden debate he had this to say "Well we're not going to please everyone so why even try?" I will address this comment later, but as of right now, I have to say that one of the biggest puss-out statements I have ever fucking heard.

JRA
06-07-2008, 07:03 PM
Part 2:


My third topic of discussion is Maiden's live situation. I remember talking with a friend about Death On the Road coming out and his response was "Honestly, I've heard enough live albums from these guys." My half sarcastic-response was, "Bah! Maiden could put out the same set for a two live albums and I'd still love it!" (Ahhh but where did the love go) His retort was "that's just it though, they don't really change live. Aside from 5 or 6 new songs, they just play the same songs over and over again." I was silent after this. I guess I knew this to be true, but I didn't really see it as a bad thing. After all, a Maiden setlist without one or two of the "standards" does feel a little weird, at least on paper.

So let's examine what songs Maiden have "brought back" since the reunion. Actually I remember reading on the maidenfans website that Murders In The Rue Morgue was brought back on the Virtual XI. That's fucking awesome. Now EdHunter wasn't the first "best-of" album that Maiden put out, but it was the first best-of they toured on. It would also be the biggest trip into the "vault" Maiden fans would see, well, ever. Powerslave, Phantom Of The Opera, Stranger In A Strange Land, Killers, Wasted Years, and Aces High were the songs Maiden fans were rewarded for the paitence. Not only that, but we got to hear Bruce sing a few Blaze songs, and Run To The Hills while not "from the vaults" wasn't played since Bruce left. So quite the overhaul. On Brave New World, we didn't really get anything else execpt for Bruce's interpretation of Sign of The Cross, which was fair since they had a new album to promote. At the tail end of the tour, during the Hammersmith dates for Clive Aid, we got to hear the glorious return of Children Of The Damned, which hadn't been played since either 1986 or 1990 (can't remember which). Then there was "Give me Ed til I'm dead." Here, Europe got to hear, Bring your Daughter to The slaughter, Revelations, Die With Your Boots on, and 22 Acacia Avenue (plus Heaven Can Wait comes back after 5 years if you want to get uber technical). Not too shabby if I do say so myself. America kinda gets the "fat free" version of this. Not only do we only get 3 out of 5 of those songs, for the the first two dates we get no 2 Minutes To Midnight, and after a while they end up dropping Wicker Man and Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter. As time goes on and the band begins to get tired, the setlist gets a little shorter and shorter. Probably bitter because of "old guys with hot dogs." Then there was Dance Of Death, and the only songs resurrected here are Can I Play With Madness and Lord Of The Flies. Not quite trips to the vault, as the former was more or less a staple from 1988-1993 and Lord Of The Flies was a staple during the Blaze years. But hey, better than nothing right?

Next up was a move so completely from left field nobody expected it. An "Early Days" tour playing music exclusively from 1980-1983. Examining Maiden's live situation, this was a lot more ballsier than the AMOLAD tour. Like I said, any band can think that their latest album is the best thing since sliced bread, but about when all the hype is said and done, does that album get forgotten to make room for the next thing? One thing that Bruce complained about was that he was afraid that this was going to be viewed as a "nostalgia tour."

Now something needs to be said about this "nostalgia tour" shit that Bruce is so afraid of. When this tour was announced, do you remember anybody going "LOL NOSTALGIA TOOR?" Shit man, I don't even remember Allan, Bouville, or EvilCheeseWedge complaining about this. When the fuck did anybody accuse Maiden of turning into a nostalgia act with this tour? The only time people starting getting angry was when Bruce opened his mouth about older fans. I firmly believe that the "nostalgia act" paranoia comes from too-cool, stuck up Rolling Stone critics who've never cared about metal bands in the first place, who are looking for a way to stick their noses up at these bands whenever possible. What's funny to me is that these "critics" judging from their "best-of" lists, seem to worship music strictly from the 50's-70's You'll seldom see music from the 80's and 90's and at best one album from the 00's, and they probably only put them there just to make themselves seem "down" with younger readers. If it was up to these critics, their magazines would do nothing but kiss the asses of Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger every month til the end of time. Tell me dear reader, what sounds more like nostalgia to you?
But anyways, another question, and perhaps a more disturbing one at that, is when the fuck did Bruce Dickinson start thinking Iron Maiden were a "serious current evolving artist." Don't people who usually think like this become a laughing stock of the music world, and even when their douchey fanboys come to defend them, they become laughing stocks too? The answer this is a little old interview that Dee Snider did with Metal Sludge.

"You know what? It's not so much that I think people should give it up and call it a day. I think people should stop being unrealistic with their expectations. And my peers kill me with this whole, you know, well, I got to give it to ya. Sorry Bruce! Sorry Dick! 'Iron Maiden for the 2000's.' You know, and they have this whole, like, you know, we're moving, we're continuing on where we left off, bigger and better. It ain't fucking happening! It's all an oldies show, and everybody should just accept it. And there's nothing wrong with an oldies show - that's what I'll be doing next year. Enjoy it for what it is! People coming to see it, maybe for the first time, maybe one last time. But nobody's picking up and putting on the denim and leather and the patches and startin' buyin' the records and following the band around."

Now when it comes to writing and speaking for multiple people, you might be up before a committee because of feelings and other PC shit, but I think I speak for everybody, their mother, and the uncle that molested both of them when I say "Who the FUCK cares about what Dee Snider thinks or has ever thought at all?!" The answer was Bruce.

"Going back to the earliest days of Iron Maiden, our first label said we'd never happen in the States, because we were too aggressive, and too out of left field. This was even before I was in the band. Then when we had 'Number of the Beast', people thought we'd convert to Twisted Sister and be a flavor of the month."

I don't know about you, but that sounds more like a "fuck you right back Dee" than anything else. Dee's quote probably ruffled the feathers of both Bruce and Steve and so they starting thinking "Shit, we gotta start proving that we're relevant to today's music scene somehow" completely forgetting that they've already accomplished that, seeing as how every metal band nowadays, their mother, and the uncle that molested both of them claims Iron Maiden as an influence! Some claim with Piece of Mind, some may claim AMOLAD.

I think every band should have an "early days tour". Not necessarily for nostalgia reasons, but once a band is done touring on an album, they tend to put it behind them and aside from a "radio hit" the rest of the album gets relocated to "deep cut" status, especially live. There comes a certain point where a band becomes an institution, and as a result of that, they more or less have free reign over what they can do and what they can play live. So to me, bringing out songs like "Alexander The Great" and "Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son" isn't nostalgia, its saying thank you to fans who have supported them for so long.

Back to the tour itself. In terms of a trip to the vault, this was practically double what Maiden fans got for EdHunter: Running Free, Another Life, Prowler, Remember Tommorrow, Drifter, Where Eagles Dare, and Phantom of The Opera makes its return 6 years after Edhunter, and Murders In The Rue Morgue makes its return years after Virtual XI. Europe got this and all the other standards. But America got ratfucked on this because of the Ozzfest quest to appease the kiddies. So America for the most part got an abbreviated set. Aside from "Murders" as the opening number, Maiden didn't really play anything they hadn't already played to America in the past 5 years. I'm still pretty pissed about this and I'm sure there are plenty of fans (who, mind you, couldn't afford to fly to New Jersey or Colorado) willing to say fuck you to Iron Maiden for that bullshit.

Next up is the AMOLAD tour, and I don't feel the need to say anything about it that I haven't said already. But I will express dissapointment at the establishment of the "A Matter Of Life & Beast Tour" or whatever the hell it was called to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of Number of the Beast or some shit like that. This was supposed to be one-third AMOLAD one-third Beast, and one-third classics. Well we certainly got one third of the former, but the only other Beast songs we got were NOTB, RTTH, and Children Of The Damned. You know, even if they didn't announce this sort of tour, and were just going to cut back on AMOLAD songs, I'm pretty sure NOTB and Run would have popped up anyway, so the only extra Beast song is Damned. So nothing that they haven't already done in the past 7 years at this point. No Invaders, No Prisoner, not even Gangland. So they more less made a promise to fans and then renegged on it. My question, why even make a "special tour announcement and waste time and money on extra press? Why not just say "here's the next leg of the tour" and if there's a different setlist, that information will travel far because of the "setlist nerd demand." And plus these were in foreign countries, its not like Maiden wouldn't have sold any seats if they didn't make an announcement.

Now let's talk about Maiden's recent activity with the "Payback for pushing our pretentious shit on our fans Tour." You might be asking why I choose to call it such a degrading name, well let's ask Steve Harris:

"On the last tour we opened the show by playing our new album, A Matter of Life and Death, in its 80-minute entirety. We thought we needed the challenge, and it proved the right thing to do. However, it can be hard on the fans playing so much new material and we really appreciated the superb support they gave us. So now l guess it's payback time.”

The setlist in question was to be dictated by a tour poster which not only had the names of each of the first seven albums in stone, but repeated mentions that the show would draw from the first seven albums. Here is the setlist in question.

Aces High
2 Minutes to Midnight
Revelations
The Trooper
Wasted Years
Number of the Beast
Can I Play with Madness
Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Powerslave
Heaven Can Wait
Run to the Hills
Fear of the Dark
Iron Maiden
--------------------------
Moonchild
The Clairvoyant
Hallowed Be Thy Name

Now, I'll be honest, the first thing that went through my mind when I read this was "MOONCHILD?!?! Holy shit!!" So I wasn't so ready to jump down Maiden's throat for being "lazy." Plus even though everyone was expecting "Rime Of The Ancient Mariner" that doesn't change the fact that it still hasn't been played in 22 years. So bravo to them for that.

Now, I love Fear Of The Dark. What self-respecting Maiden fan doesn't? But it has no business being on this tour. None. No matter how much crowd interaction is involved. It came out in 92, and for Maiden to put a nineties song on a strictly 80's advertised setlist (not to mention putting out a completely irrelevant 80's compliation disc), that not only is proof of Maiden's laziness to 100% rock the boat, but its an insult to Iron Maiden fans intelligence. "Oh hey we really don't want to learn an extra song we haven't played in years, so why don't we just play another song we always play? It's a live favorite anyway, its not like they'll know the difference." Bullshit. Especially the fact that there are precisely no songs from Killers on this list whatsoever. Again it was advertised on the tour poster, so its a classic example of saying one thing and doing another. Even the overplayed Wrathchild is more welcome here than Fear. What's especially confusing is the fact that they choose to play it despite the fact that they already played it on the AMOLAD tour, which is also probably the reason Can I Play With Madness and Clairvoyant are being played instead of Evil That Men Do, it was already played last tour. So Maiden won't play a song that fits this bill perfectly because they played it last tour, yet they will play a song that doesn't fit the bill because too many stupid n00bs asked for it during "Early Days," even though they did play it last tour? I am common sense and I am not here.

One song that I think needs to permanently retire is Heaven Can Wait. I think the only reason Maiden play it is so they can "have an excuse" to bring Maiden fans onstage with them to sing. Now, I'm not knocking a band wanting to share the stage for its fans, but honestly, it seems like a waste of time & energy to use a 7 minute song in order to do that. Why not do it with "Run To The Hills" or "The Trooper?" Hell, if Maiden really wanted to get into it, they could have all the fans dress up in Eddie Trooper costumes and run across the fucking stage! Charge of the light brigade indeed. I bring this up because there are quite a few Somewhere In Time fanboys. In fact, dare I say, its probably the album that gets the most requests out of their catalogue. But I can tell you which song fans do not want to hear, Heaven Can Wait. They've just heard it enough times.

Judas Priest recently put out the following setlist:

01. Intro: Dawn of Creation
02. Prophecy
03. Metal Gods
04. Eat Me Alive
05. Between the Hammer And The Anvil
06. Devil's Child
07. Breaking the Law
08. Hell Patrol
09. Death
10. Dissident Aggressor
11. Angel
12. The Hellion/Electric Eye
13. Rock Hard, Ride Free
14. Sinner
15. Painkiller
---------------
16. Hell Bent For Leather
17. The Green Manalishi (With the Two-Pronged Crown)
18. You've Got Another Thing Coming

That, my friends, is fucking awesome! Is it perfect? Meh, it could perhaps use a nip and tuck, but this setlist completely shits all over Nicko's pervious quote "We can't please everyone so why try." No matter what type of Priest fan you are, when you read that, only two words came out of your mouth. "HOLY SHIT!" Even if "Nostrodamus" ends up being complete garbage, at least we get to hear Dissident Aggressor for the first time ever! Yet somehow, Steve Harris just doesn't have the heart to bring out Invaders, let alone Alexander The Great.


Finally, we Lauren Harris. I have a very low tolerance for children, especially other people's children, especially children who think that just because they were a cheese pulled out of daddy's cock that they can do what he does. My dad runs a recycling center for a living, does that mean I think I'm the man to run it when he retires? Hell No. Regardless, for some oddball reason I feel it in my concience to take it as easy as I can on her, and I'm gonna do that. After all at the end of the day, somebody's kid is somebody's kid and the who the hell am I to tell someone how to raise it?

Musically, Lauren Harris, is the englishman's Avril Lavigne. Music for 14 year old girls. This is not an insult, it is the truth. That is the music she chooses to make, and I hold her no malice for it. I wish her all the success in the world and I hope she is able to find her audience. And just to prove my sincerity in this matter, I offer Lauren one piece advice: You are not going to find your audience at the WACKEN METAL FESTIVAL.

Shame on you Steve Harris!! Shame on you!! Shame on you for your beauracratic lobbying and forcing a festival of people to sit through someone who's music they will not relate to by one single iota, in order for you and your band to grace the "Mecca of Heavy Metal culture." If you want to drag your daughter all across America and the rest of the world on your tour, I think at this point in your career you've earned the right to do that (truth be told, I think I'd rather sit through Lauren Harris than Bullet For My Valentine myself). But if you're gonna force metal fans at a festival which you have had no hand in creating to sit through her, you the cross the line. I don't care what type of Iron Maiden fan you are, if you condone this action, you deserve to be peed on by Sharon Osbourne's dogs. (It pains me to write this next sentence. It pains me in my Billy Joel, Bob Marley, Rolling Stones loving white heart to write this, but it needs to be said) Speaking of Sharon Osbourne, I don't ever remember her adding Kelly Osbourne on the Ozzfest roster during her short lived career as a pop singer. Do you? Sharon Osbourne officially has more common sense then Steve Harris. This an ugly ugly truth. She may have put Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, and Jada Pinkett Smith's goth project on Ozzfest, but goddammit, at least she knows that Ozzfest goers do not want to hear her daughter sing "Shut Up." And I can say with 100% certainty, that Wacken goers do not want to hear Lauren Harris sing "Hurry Up."
Somewhere Paul Di'anno, Dennis Stratton, Clive Burr, and Blaze Bayley are laughing their asses off.


So in conclusion, do I want Iron Maiden to break up? Fuck no. I write all of this because I care.

"[The Band] argue about certain things because we care. If you don't that means there's complacency, and complacency means you don't care."

That quote is from Nicko McBrain on the Live After Death DVD. And I think it drives my point home perfectly. I'm so sick and tired of all the faggots on blabbermouth, Metal Sludge and all the other irrelevant message boards complaining about Iron Maiden. Sure you can ignore it the first fifty times, but after a while, that shit takes it toll on you, and you begin to question whether or not these guys are right. "Oh Josh, what are you going to police the internet now?" As far as I'm concerned writing this is alot more helpful to Iron Maiden's cause than just sitting back and doing nothing. I'll still be spinning the Iron Maiden albums when the mood suits me (I may even put on AMOLAD), but if Maiden wish to reclaim the title "Greatest Metal Band ever" from Judas Priest, they've got some work to do.

"But open the gates of my hell, I will strike from the grave!"

ADD
06-07-2008, 07:28 PM
I'll give you props for the write-up and the all thought you put into that. Nevertheless, there's a good reason Maiden are pretty much the only metal band who had their hey-day in the 80's who are right now in 2008 as popular and relevant around the world as they ever have been at any time in their career. I realized awhile ago that dissecting setlists is about the lamest commentary you can make on a band if that's your fuel for ragging on them, since I'd say 5% of any given band's fanbase (even a fanbase as rabid as Maiden have) really pays attention or cares about their setlists enough to make it out to be a sore spot. These are old dudes who tour and make music at a very consistent rate, and as much as people bitch about the new Maiden song formula, what other 80's metal band has released 3 albums as good as the ones Maiden have since the year 2000? At least no one else I know is writing songs in the style of "Paschendale" and "The Longest Day", its not like the amount of those type of songs is over saturated. They put more effort into a live show than any band I've ever seen, and barring the Ozzfest mistake, their shows have improved every year since the reunion, and I think most every fan who has seen the tours can vouch for that. Criticize away, but at the end of the day you gotta look at the facts; in general, across the globe, Iron Maiden is the most relevant metal band from the 80's active today.

ADD
06-07-2008, 07:33 PM
Also if you wanna argue that Judas Priest are the "Greatest Metal Band ever", I'd love to read up on that logic too ;)

JRA
06-07-2008, 07:41 PM
Also if you wanna argue that Judas Priest are the "Greatest Metal Band ever", I'd love to read up on that logic too ;)

I meant to say "My favorite band ever." I'm actually not even sure where "greatest band ever" came from.


And no, the setlist wasn't my entire fuel for writing this up. Although it doesn't help when you spend 20% of your week on a website with constant setlist critique. It was more of a supporting argument (I use that word loosely) in the fact that most of Maiden seem to be doing nowadays reeks of laziness. As for "work into a live show" I remember reading on another board that one guy walked out on a Maiden show because "Janick couldn't stop posing his ass off."

This writing was more or less me explaining that I'm just not the rabid Maiden fanboy I was because of the events of the past 3 years, and the criticism surrounding it. And fuck that "think for yourself" bullshit, sooner or later all that crap wears you down. It also doesn't help that you can't log into any of the other places where these debates are going on so you can pitch in.

hot_turkey_ed
06-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Some points in non-specific order....

1. Not saying I'm agree with all or anything you wrote specially but those two posts are two of the best we've EVER had on the board. THANK YOU.

2. Post Blaze songs that sound like 'creeping death' metal: Monstegur, Face In The Sand, Fallen Angel, Paschendale... I totally disagree with you on this point... there's a lot of metal in the last three studio albums.

3. In hindsight, I have probably would have preferred a real Maiden tour over an Ozzfest, although I did fly to one of their couple headlining shows in North America. I have to believe both Ozzfest and their inclusion on games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band has had a HUGE influence on their resurgance.

4. I don't need another Piece Of Mind. I like AMOLAD and I really liked that the whole thing was played live. Saying an album was easy to make is standard music business bullshit. I completely ignore statements like that. I also don't think all -- I know you didn't mean it literally -- is the same... i.e. Journeyman. Where did that come from?

5. Alan and Bouville were both off the site, probably out of metal entirely. Both would have bitched by their old standards. I probably would have shouted down both of them, leading the forces of maiden lemmingdom. This tour may nostalgia for people who had been part of it the first time around, but I just saw things I've NEVER seen at a Maiden concert. This last set of shows were arguably the best I've ever seen.

6. Disney has a new ride in both Florida and California. On the east coast, it's called Toy Story Mania. On the west cost, it's Toy Story Midway Mania. The national media just calls its Toy Story Mania. So hardcore net bitches have accused Disney of lying about the name of the ride, i.e. advertising a ride that doesn't exist. It's silly. So is worrying too much about Fear Of The Dark. I like this song. If that is all people have to complain about the last set list, Maiden did something very right.

7. Judas Priest NEEDED to shake up their set list. Badly. They may have pulled one out for their two but their last couple of tours have been pretty predictable. Moving on...

8. Three hearts beat away from a heart attack? I'm working on that. I go as apeshit as anyone at a Maiden concert, short of the drunk and/ deranged.

9. Bruce caused a major spilt, at least on the net with his comments. I don't really care to go back there.

10. Good points on the adult fanbase and jazz. Damn good points.

11. I'd prefer less frenzy dvd's.... I actually want to watch some of them play..

12. I have no complaints with Harris' steerage of Maiden. If only other bands had a Steve Harris...

13. Lauren Harris doesn't belong in an opening slot on a Maiden tour... I have mixed opinion about her band after the irvine shows. more on this later.

14. I don't like how quickly songs from new albums get put away.. but then again... how exactly do you prevent it? more shows? :D


Again... MOST EXCELLENT POSTS. This fucker will be sticked for a long time to come. THANK YOU! :fist:

rjturtle9
06-07-2008, 08:48 PM
i read that review in awe. yes i haven't been a huge maiden fan for that long. I've always listened to the essentials (trooper, run to the hills, number of the beast) but it was the beginning of the year that i became truly in love with their music. and in that short time i did enough research to fully understand where this write up came from. and yes i have to agree with it. maybe some things in there kinda made me say to myself "ok that's not entirely true", but for the most part, it made perfect sense. now i want to keep this short so I'll just say this, yes maiden has been fucking up lately, but at least they haven't become like metallica, or ozzy, or hell even like the present guns n roses. if the people on those other forums bash iron maiden, fine, so be it. they are probably the ones that went on their last tour for bullet for my valentine. fuck them, who cares what they say. you go to the concerts, you listen to true metal music, and you enjoy every second of it. UP THE IRONS AND KEEP UPING THE IRONS THROUGH THE DARK TIMES :rocker:

JRA
06-07-2008, 08:48 PM
Some points in non-specific order....

1. Not saying I'm agree with all or anything you wrote specially but those two posts are two of the best we've EVER had on the board. THANK YOU.

2. Post Blaze songs that sound like 'creeping death' metal: Monstegur, Face In The Sand, Fallen Angel, Paschendale... I totally disagree with you on this point... there's a lot of metal in the last three studio albums.

3. In hindsight, I have probably would have preferred a real Maiden tour over an Ozzfest, although I did fly to one of their couple headlining shows in North America. I have to believe both Ozzfest and their inclusion on games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band has had a HUGE influence on their resurgance.

4. I don't need another Piece Of Mind. I like AMOLAD and I really liked that the whole thing was played live. Saying an album was easy to make is standard music business bullshit. I completely ignore statements like that. I also don't think all -- I know you didn't mean it literally -- is the same... i.e. Journeyman. Where did that come from?

5. Alan and Bouville were both off the site, probably out of metal entirely. Both would have bitched by their old standards. I probably would have shouted down both of them, leading the forces of maiden lemmingdom. This tour may nostalgia for people who had been part of it the first time around, but I just saw things I've NEVER seen at a Maiden concert. This last set of shows were arguably the best I've ever seen.

6. Disney has a new ride in both Florida and California. On the east coast, it's called Toy Story Mania. On the west cost, it's Toy Story Midway Mania. The national media just calls its Toy Story Mania. So hardcore net bitches have accused Disney of lying about the name of the ride, i.e. advertising a ride that doesn't exist. It's silly. So is worrying too much about Fear Of The Dark. I like this song. If that is all people have to complain about the last set list, Maiden did something very right.

7. Judas Priest NEEDED to shake up their set list. Badly. They may have pulled one out for their two but their last couple of tours have been pretty predictable. Moving on...

8. Three hearts beat away from a heart attack? I'm working on that. I go as apeshit as anyone at a Maiden concert, short of the drunk and/ deranged.

9. Bruce caused a major spilt, at least on the net with his comments. I don't really care to go back there.

10. Good points on the adult fanbase and jazz. Damn good points.

11. I'd prefer less frenzy dvd's.... I actually want to watch some of them play..

12. I have no complaints with Harris' steerage of Maiden. If only other bands had a Steve Harris...

13. Lauren Harris doesn't belong in an opening slot on a Maiden tour... I have mixed opinion about her band after the irvine shows. more on this later.

14. I don't like how quickly songs from new albums get put away.. but then again... how exactly do you prevent it? more shows? :D


Again... MOST EXCELLENT POSTS. This fucker will be sticked for a long time to come. THANK YOU! :fist:

1. Not bad, considering I also used Peter North jokes to diffuse political disussuions.

2. Too bad Kai Hansen already wrote the "Fallen Angel" riff for "Land Of The Free." :D But what I meant by metal...there has to be a certain "crunch" to your bands sound in order for you to qualify as metal in my book. Rush's "One Little Victory" comes to mind, despite Rush not being a "metal" band, but would the song sound out of place on a Motorhead album? hell no!

3. As did Grand Theft Auto: Vice City... :D

4. I don't want another Piece Of Mind either, but I also don't want another Brave New World :D, at least I didn't need three of em.

5. Honestly, I would see them instead of Priest/Heaven Hell/Motorhead, ah but the timing...(on my part especially).

6. All I wanted was to see Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son brought back. Hell, if they brought that back for the tour I probably wouldn't have written this. :D

7. Yes, and they did. God bless them for it.

8. I was afraid that section was monotonous. :lol:

10. Thank you. :D

11. I actually still have not bought that DVD to this day, but its because I'm extremely choosy about what music DVD's I buy.

14. I for one would like The Nomad, Wildest Dreams, and Out Of The Silent Planet to come out live. The latter was a friggin single for God's sake!

powerslave_85
06-07-2008, 09:02 PM
The Nomad:hecho::hecho:

JRA
06-07-2008, 09:29 PM
but at least they haven't become like metallica, or ozzy, or hell even like the present guns n roses.


And for that I am grateful.

powerslave_85
06-07-2008, 10:01 PM
I had this discussion with Josh earlier, but I'd thought I'd share it with everyone else and expand on a few things: These things that he talked about, among others, are part of the reason that I've started to grow out of Maiden a little bit, and why they're no longer my favorite band. Every year seems to bring a new annoyance or frustration: ANOTHER live album?? The same setlist every night? ANOTHER song with a slow bass intro? ANOTHER DVD with seizure-inducing editing? ANOTHER tour that ignores half the US? Guys like ADD and Pavo are right: Complaining about these things is kind of dumb, and, in the end, fruitless. But when they continue year after year and tour after tour, you just start to get sick and tired of it. Getting the same thing every year is tedious, and after a while even the most ardent fanboys (like I used to be) are worn down by it.

That's not to say that everything is bad, though. Despite the fact that their albums are sounding kind of same-y these days, they still show us a flash of brilliance and inventiveness now and then. Songs like "Paschendale," "Journeyman," and "The Legacy" are good examples of this, I think. Their setlists have improved over the last couple tours, and they've brought back some old stuff that a lot of people weren't sure we'd ever see again (Rime and Moonchild come immediately to mind).

Those are examples of things that keep me interested in this band, and they're what keep me from just giving up completely. However, when other bands I love are doing much more daring and exciting things, it's inevitable that I'll start to drift away from ol' steady Maiden. Josh thinks they shouldn't call it quits yet; I do. I really hate to say it, but as time goes by I can only see things getting more embarrassing, and I think one last album and a fucking enormous farewell tour would ensure that they go out with a bang and with most of their fanbase intact. They'll always have a place on my record shelf, and I still wear my Maiden shirts with pride, but I would rather see them bow out with grace than see them become a parody of themselves. Up the Irons.

Oh, one more thing about "album tours" like AMOLAD: I don't really have a problem with it, and when it's done well I think it's awesome. The bands that really make it work, though, are the ones who bring back an old album (like Alkaline Trio did with Goddamnit when I saw them a couple years ago) or disperse the album throughout a longer, more cohesive setlist (Sleater-Kinney included The Woods in its entirety in their setlists for over a year after it was released). So I think it was a good idea on Maiden's part, but I could have been executed a little better.

DethMaiden
06-07-2008, 11:28 PM
First of all, great fucking read. Now granted it's currently 2:30 AM and I don't have quite the competence necessary to make a logical response, but here goes:

I don't think the setlist is a major issue just because the strength of Maiden's material is so great, and their touring has become so sparse lately that a lot of us huge fans haven't actually gotten the chance to see them live. Hell, I drove to fucking Toronto just to see them pull out a setlist made exclusively (Fear of the Dark I agree on, though) from the greatest metal albums of all time. Holy fuck!

I think the ball is in Maiden's court now. They've done some controversial things with touring routes, setlists, and just general business. The next album, the next tour, and the next couple years will solidify most peoples' opinion on them. But let's face it, they're Iron Fucking Maiden and they basically deserve the support of their fanbase no matter what they decide to do. Steve has made some questionable decisions and admittedly needs to get the fuck out of the DVD editing station but I can't hate this band. I can't even dislike them. Hell, I can't even get mad at them. Call it fanboyism, but they know how to make great music and I can't fault them for the little slip-ups between stellar albums. That said, glad I wasn't a Maiden fan in '90, because NPFTD probably would have made me a skeptic :D

TonyD
06-07-2008, 11:41 PM
I have no complaints for Maiden in general just for keeping it together this far (outside of the Bruce split) and not being Metallica/Ozzy/etc. Also because they did this tour and gave the majority of their fans what they wanted- to hear these songs again.

I have to agree with Pavo on the subject of Maiden on Ozzfest, even the extra 20 minutes of deeper stuff would have made it quite a bit better.

I saw Priest and Maiden on Ozzfest those two years and Priest was the better of the two. I'll be interested to see them again this year because Maiden may have had the better show this year.

TonyD
06-07-2008, 11:50 PM
Oh, one more thing about "album tours" like AMOLAD: I don't really have a problem with it, and when it's done well I think it's awesome. The bands that really make it work, though, are the ones who bring back an old album (like Alkaline Trio did with Goddamnit when I saw them a couple years ago) or disperse the album throughout a longer, more cohesive setlist (Sleater-Kinney included The Woods in its entirety in their setlists for over a year after it was released). So I think it was a good idea on Maiden's part, but I could have been executed a little better.

Just to avoid any musical confrentations, anyone who would prefer can replace Alkaline Trio and Sleater-Kinney with Metallica, Slayer and System of a Down

powerslave_85
06-07-2008, 11:55 PM
Ermm, I was just using examples that I was the most familiar with.

Electric/Funeral55
06-08-2008, 12:44 AM
Great essay, Neil. I will be seeing them next saturday at PNC. I am happy I will be seeing them for the 2nd time in 3 years. I last saw them at the same venue for Ozzfest 05 for the "Early Days" tour. I went to the night where Ozzy didn't get sick. I heard on the 2nd night when Ozzy did get sick that Iron Maiden was the main head liner for the main stage they did Where Eagles Dare and other good songs. Some points I would like to make though is.


1.I agree with you 100% about Fear of the Dark being on this set list because I have been saying the same exact thing since I saw it was on the set list. I love that song but it does not belong on a set list. I think they should do some some songs from Killers such as Purgatory which is one of my favorite songs by them for example.

2.Another funny thing about the the tour poster is that not only did it give us false information about doing any songs from Killers but the band didn't even bother to put "Somewhere in Time" in the setlist but "Fear of the Dark" instead? That really is a kick in the balls to a fans intelligence.

3.You don't have to agree on this but I think I know why Iron Maiden has gotten so lazy with their set list for this tour. Remember when Bruce said "Fuck America and its fat, old, self satisfied, Wal-mart loving ass."? That is true to a certain extent because the current set list was mainly compiled to please the more shall I say "casual" Iron Maiden fans as well as give the younger crowd a introduction of who Iron Maiden is. Every song on that set list is in some way a commercial hit for them except for a few songs such as Revelations, Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Moonchild, The Clairvoyant, and Hallowed Be Thy Name.

4.I am going to have to disagree with you on "Heaven Can Wait" because this is the 1st time I will be seeing it played live but it would be nice if they also threw in "The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner" or especially "Alexander the Great (356-323 B.C.)"

5.For those who attended one of the L.A shows. Consider yourself lucky because although you had to sit though Lauren Harris. At least you guys got Anthrax and Iron Maiden. I have to sit though Lauren Harris and Trivium but I suppose it could be a lot worse.

6.It is also funny of how you talk about the old school fans almost getting a heart attack from rocking out a lot because when I saw them at Ozzfest 2005. This guy who was in the front row fell asleep during either "Run to the Hills" or "Running Free" and Bruce ripped him a new ass hole during the song.

Angelripper
06-08-2008, 02:48 AM
If Maiden could have brought out Seventh Son for one last hurrah that would have kicked ass.

JRA
06-08-2008, 06:57 AM
Josh thinks they shouldn't call it quits yet; I do. I really hate to say it, but as time goes by I can only see things getting more embarrassing, and I think one last album and a fucking enormous farewell tour would ensure that they go out with a bang and with most of their fanbase intact. They'll always have a place on my record shelf, and I still wear my Maiden shirts with pride, but I would rather see them bow out with grace than see them become a parody of themselves. Up the Irons.



Like I said, I wrote this schpiel because I "care." If I did want Maiden to breakup, I probably would have been a bit more vicious and attacked places below the belt. But no, my mindset is still to root for the home team, even in time of crisis, if for no other reason to spite Dee Snider. :D

Side note: I didn't mention this in the address just cos I didn't think it was relevant, but Dee said that shit back in 2003 and look what's happened to him since. He rerecorded an old album (which from what I heard from other fans was garbage), made a Christmas album, and from what I hear now he's doing country music and putting his kids on a reality show. Draw your own conclusions.

Another thing Nick mentioned that resonates with me is the fact that its not the actions in and of themselves that bother me (i.e. another slow bass intro), but the fact that they keep happening over and over again, and that more than anything makes me think Maiden is getting lazy.

DethMaiden
06-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Didn't Steve say 15 albums and that's it for Maiden anyway? Maybe that would satisfy everyone as long as the album is good and there are two tours for it: an album tour, and a farewell-type greatest hits tour that hit every concert-hosting city in the world. Then fall Maiden.

hot_turkey_ed
06-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Every year seems to bring a new annoyance or frustration: ANOTHER live album?? The same setlist every night? ANOTHER song with a slow bass intro? ANOTHER DVD with seizure-inducing editing? ANOTHER tour that ignores half the US? Guys like ADD and Pavo are right: Complaining about these things is kind of dumb, and, in the end, fruitless. But when they continue year after year and tour after tour, you just start to get sick and tired of it. Getting the same thing every year is tedious, and after a while even the most ardent fanboys (like I used to be) are worn down by it.

.......I really hate to say it, but as time goes by I can only see things getting more embarrassing

The point I understand best is touring that ignores half the US, but then again, you just had a local Maiden show in Arizona... Me, I like travelling to Maiden shows. No problem.

Embarrassing? For whom? I doubt anyone in Maiden is embarrassed by the status of the band, the current tour, etc. For you?

I disagree we're getting the same thing year and year.

I want a live album from every tour. If more bands made an official boot available a la Metallica, I'd be all over it.

I wouldn't mind Iron Maiden mixing a song or two in the set. I don't buy it couldn't be done. Then again, I really don't care that much though.

The IMBB was a lot less fun a couple of years when the whole US vs Europe thing went down. A lot of us weren't exactly happy -- some way more vocal than others -- with Bruce's comments. However, Iron Maiden doesn't present annoyance / frustrations that aren't typical to a lot of bands.

hot_turkey_ed
06-08-2008, 11:31 AM
2.Another funny thing about the the tour poster is that not only did it give us false information about doing any songs from Killers but the band didn't even bother to put "Somewhere in Time" in the setlist but "Fear of the Dark" instead? That really is a kick in the balls to a fans intelligence.

3.You don't have to agree on this but I think I know why Iron Maiden has gotten so lazy with their set list for this tour. Remember when Bruce said "Fuck America and its fat, old, self satisfied, Wal-mart loving ass."? That is true to a certain extent because the current set list was mainly compiled to please the more shall I say "casual" Iron Maiden fans as well as give the younger crowd a introduction of who Iron Maiden is. Every song on that set list is in some way a commercial hit for them except for a few songs such as Revelations, Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Moonchild, The Clairvoyant, and Hallowed Be Thy Name.

I disagree Maiden is lazy with this set list, or recent ones. My one word response: Rime. Songs I hadn't before: Aces High, Powerslave, Rime, Moonchild. That's a quarter of the set list right there, more so in terms of minutes on stage. Heaven Can Wait may on be on that list but I can't remember the Gimme Ed list off the top of my head. Your list at the end is about a third of it.

powerslave_85
06-08-2008, 11:39 AM
However, Iron Maiden doesn't present annoyance / frustrations that aren't typical to a lot of bands.I disagree. Most of my grievances are pretty exclusive to this band.

BTW, I wasn't complaining at all about the routing of this current tour. It was all on me that I wasn't able to see them this time around, and I don't fault them at all for it. However, this is the first time they've been here for a headlining show since I last saw them, which was 5 years ago.

JRA
06-08-2008, 11:46 AM
I want a live album from every tour. If more bands made an official boot available a la Metallica, I'd be all over it.



Metallica's setlists are different every night though.

powerslave_85
06-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Metallica's setlists are different every night though.
Yep.

In this day and age, live DVDs are much better than live albums, especially when the band has a live show like Maiden's.

(BTW, Josh, awesome sig :lol: "I cursed you, Steve. I cursed your fucking heart today.")

hot_turkey_ed
06-08-2008, 12:43 PM
Metallica's setlists are different every night though.

The Metallica set list I can most about is the one they're playing at a show I'm attending. The official boot becomes the ultimate audio souvenir of the night.

Ditto with any Maiden. It would make it special hearing my show in itunes as opposed to the one you heard somewhere else. I want my show booted, complete with audio warts with band fuckups (i.e. Steve's bass went out during Revelations the first night of Irvine).

rjturtle9
06-08-2008, 01:20 PM
yeah but i think the reason maiden doesn't but up boots on their website is because they never change the set. so it would make sense on their part. just go look for the show on torrents or something. works fine for me

hot_turkey_ed
06-08-2008, 01:32 PM
yeah but i think the reason maiden doesn't but up boots on their website is because they never change the set. so it would make sense on their part. just go look for the show on torrents or something. works fine for me

Not many do the official boot thing in metal. Metallica is the only one that comes to my mind. To the band it may not matter because it's the same set list but as a fan, I want my specific show.

I don't do torrents for music. :eyes:

rjturtle9
06-08-2008, 01:50 PM
I don't do torrents for music. :eyes:

haha man damn i forgot how u guys don't download ur music haha oh shit my bad

JRA
06-08-2008, 02:46 PM
(BTW, Josh, awesome sig :lol: "I cursed you, Steve. I cursed your fucking heart today.")

I ususally hate that type of "Tim and Eric, quirky, electic" lookin shit, but when that line hit me I fell off my chair laughing.

Div
06-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Fuck the ozzfest crowd anyway. Here's a quote from some idiot on another message board.

I recently saw Iron Maiden open for Sabbath. That's when I took a leak. Maiden sucks.

That post was made in sept. 07 so Im not sure what show he's talking about, but I'd assume it was when they (not so "recently") played ozzfest. So there's really no point in trying to please people like that cause they don't know what the fuck they're talking about anyway, and anyone who says Maiden sucks yet also bows to Sabbath probably isn't a metal fan and just thinks Sabbath is cool cause their name is popular. Same goes for that guy you mentioned who walked out because of Janick "posing". He was probably some pretentious douche who was thinking "this guy is acting all goofy, this is embarrassing, I can't be seen here" which makes him and all his opinions on life invalid.

Moving on. I don't have a problem with Maiden setlists because it's still a Maiden show and that makes it good. Sure I can nitpick about what songs I would change out, but in the end it's still a good show (still, Caught Somewhere In Time should've been a no brainer to have on this tour), even tho the current setlist is alot more fun than the AMOLAD setlis was, and there were no people telling me to sit down this time (what the fuck was that about?)

Lauren Harris really doesn't deserve a place in this tour, even if her dad is in the band. If anything, I feel embarrassed for her trying to act cool with the "how the fuck are you doing tonite, put your hands in the air" routine, yet everyone is thinking "my god get the hell off the stage already". I managed to effectively utilize her stage time to go find a bathroom, but most people had to sit through it. Not to mention her band members look like complete tools. And I don't care how hot she is, that's not an excuse, especially sense 80% of the people are sitting too far back to even get a good look at her.

JRA
06-08-2008, 02:56 PM
Lauren Harris really doesn't deserve a place in this tour, even if her dad is in the band. If anything, I feel embarrassed for her trying to act cool with the "how the fuck are you doing tonite, put your hands in the air" routine, yet everyone is thinking "my god get the hell off the stage already". I managed to effectively utilize her stage time to go find a bathroom, but most people had to sit through it. Not to mention her band members look like complete tools. And I don't care how hot she is, that's not an excuse, especially sense 80% of the people are sitting too far back to even get a good look at her.



I guess I forgot to mention that I wonder how Steve feels about the only good thing people had to say about his daughter is "She's hot" or "I'd pee in her butt" but then again I was taking it easy on her. ;)

ravenheart
06-08-2008, 05:02 PM
I've made the Lauren Harris point countless times. Yes, she is hot. But she doesn't play metal. So should not be supporting a metal band. And it's not her fault. Her music is actually alright. It's Steve's fault for basically forcing her to play to the wrong crowds. At the moment he is fucking up her chances of making it because she's barely ever played to her own audience, or even an audience with a chance of digging what she's doing.

I also recall making the "lazy setlist" point months ago, and I will add a "lazy touring" point at this juncture. A few years ago Steve said the band would only ever play festival and stadium shows in Europe. Goddamn fucking lazy. Where did the days of three sold out nights in Hammersmith go? One show at a stadium too big for 80% of the crowd to see the band? Yeah, thanks guys.

I've not seen Maiden since the Dance of Death tour, and won't be seeing this tour, or any tour, until they play some proper shows and stop fucking about trying to play venues that will fit the maximum number of people into one gig.

On the setlist front please for fuck sakes dump Beast, Hallowed, Fear, Hills and all the other overplayed "hits" and give us something different. And no, Rime and Moonchild doesn't cut it.

DethMaiden
06-08-2008, 05:44 PM
I've made the Lauren Harris point countless times. Yes, she is hot. But she doesn't play metal. So should not be supporting a metal band. And it's not her fault. Her music is actually alright. It's Steve's fault for basically forcing her to play to the wrong crowds. At the moment he is fucking up her chances of making it because she's barely ever played to her own audience, or even an audience with a chance of digging what she's doing.

I also recall making the "lazy setlist" point months ago, and I will add a "lazy touring" point at this juncture. A few years ago Steve said the band would only ever play festival and stadium shows in Europe. Goddamn fucking lazy. Where did the days of three sold out nights in Hammersmith go? One show at a stadium too big for 80% of the crowd to see the band? Yeah, thanks guys.

I've not seen Maiden since the Dance of Death tour, and won't be seeing this tour, or any tour, until they play some proper shows and stop fucking about trying to play venues that will fit the maximum number of people into one gig.

On the setlist front please for fuck sakes dump Beast, Hallowed, Fear, Hills and all the other overplayed "hits" and give us something different. And no, Rime and Moonchild doesn't cut it.


FUCK YOU!

DethMaiden
06-08-2008, 05:47 PM
And on an unrelated note, from the third row of Air Canada Centre, Lauren Harris was VERY fucking hot. I spent more time texting people back home that she was hot than actually watching her, though.

JRA
06-08-2008, 05:56 PM
FUCK YOU!

I'm actually not opposed to that at all, especially since Adrian can't play his solo, which is the best part of the song.

JRA
06-08-2008, 05:58 PM
and I will add a "lazy touring" point at this juncture. A few years ago Steve said the band would only ever play festival and stadium shows in Europe. Goddamn fucking lazy. Where did the days of three sold out nights in Hammersmith go? One show at a stadium too big for 80% of the crowd to see the band? Yeah, thanks guys.


Wow, I gotta agree, that sucks. And to think Americans get pissed when NY and LA dates are announced

DethMaiden
06-08-2008, 06:04 PM
I'm actually not opposed to that at all, especially since Adrian can't play his solo, which is the best part of the song.

Sounded fine in Toronto. If Maiden didn't play Hallowed live, I think they should be put before an international crimes tribunal.

ADD
06-08-2008, 06:54 PM
I think people's criticism of Maiden stems from taking the internet way too seriously. I've hardly heard anyone in real life say anything shitty about Maiden talking to people, even people who are uninformed about metal or aren't even really rock fans in general. Maiden always seems to generate a lot of positive comments and reactions from people I've encountered everywhere I go, and Metallica are Sabbath are the only other metal bands who I've experienced getting the same amount of praise. Nitpicking little things that only obsessive fans like us would care about anyways doesn't reflect on the general population, and in terms of assessing the "State of the Maiden" that's what we should be looking at, and not at the minor opinions of a few internet douchebags on Ozzfest.com who slag them or of the fanboys like me and others on here who jock them constantly.

And a Maiden show without "Hallowed Be Thy Name" is one that I will not be attending :cool:

Maiden33
06-08-2008, 07:32 PM
13. Lauren Harris doesn't belong in an opening slot on a Maiden tour... I have mixed opinion about her band after the irvine shows. more on this later.

Again... MOST EXCELLENT POSTS. This fucker will be sticked for a long time to come. THANK YOU! :fist:

First of all, I don't agree with you decision to move and stick this at all. Basically you're saying: "I agree, thus I will favor your topic and stick it".
Secondly, I'm REALLY getting sick and tired of saying this to people: Lauren Harris is better than the grand majority of opening acts Maiden has had on the East Coast of the states here over the last several years. Bullet For My Valentine? Arch Enemy? Ozzfest bands? No thanks, I'll take Lauren Harris thank you. I'll take poppy suckage that's easy to ignore and doesn't rape the ears of the unwilling over the aforementioned options.

Now, to NeilPeartJr:

I both agree and disagree on so many points it would be irrelevant to try to pick it apart, but I generally don't like how you tend to lump Maiden fans into the two general categories of either fanboys or those who bitch about everything.

I might get banned for saying what I just said to Ed, but I feel it needed to be said.

ChildrenofSodom
06-08-2008, 07:42 PM
On the setlist front please for fuck sakes dump Beast, Hallowed, Fear, Hills and all the other overplayed "hits" and give us something different. And no, Rime and Moonchild doesn't cut it.

Dude! You may think that Beast, Hallowed, and Hills are overplayed...but at least in my opinion (and I am no die-hard Maiden fan per se), I would think that those songs are what make being a Maiden fan worth it live. I got NOTB in 7th grade, and that was what GOT me into metal, essentially. Thats what the fans want. Dont be a hipster and hate a good song because its popular.

MY FIRST MAIDEN SHOW IN 4 DAYS!!! FUCK YES!!!! EPIC!!! NO SLEEP TIL MAIDEN!!!

Maiden33
06-08-2008, 07:45 PM
Dude! You may think that Beast, Hallowed, and Hills are overplayed...but at least in my opinion (and I am no die-hard Maiden fan per se), I would think that those songs are what make being a Maiden fan worth it live. I got NOTB in 7th grade, and that was what GOT me into metal, essentially. Thats what the fans want. Dont be a hipster and hate a good song because its popular.

MY FIRST MAIDEN SHOW IN 4 DAYS!!! FUCK YES!!!! EPIC!!! NO SLEEP TIL MAIDEN!!!

Even I, a "young" fan (of 6 years) thinks NOTB, RTTH and any other rediculously overplayed songs should desperately be ejected from any new Maiden set list. As usual, my arguement here is that set lists should always feature as much rotation as possible to make things the most enjoyable for the die-hard fans who see every tour, especially over the years. I totally agree with rotating and switching up songs tour to tour and wish more bands did it.

ChildrenofSodom
06-08-2008, 07:56 PM
Even I, a "young" fan (of 6 years) thinks NOTB, RTTH and any other rediculously overplayed songs should desperately be ejected from any new Maiden set list. As usual, my arguement here is that set lists should always feature as much rotation as possible to make things the most enjoyable for the die-hard fans who see every tour, especially over the years. I totally agree with rotating and switching up songs tour to tour and wish more bands did it.

But Maiden always seem to do themed tours. This tour is the 'old shit' and how do you play that without those hits? Because the old shit is arguably their best and most popular stuff. On the last tour, they played the new album, without NOTB. Plus, this is my first time (maybe last time) seeing Maiden, and I want to hear those songs.

Maiden33
06-08-2008, 07:59 PM
But Maiden always seem to do themed tours. This tour is the 'old shit' and how do you play that without those hits? Because the old shit is arguably their best and most popular stuff. On the last tour, they played the new album, without NOTB. Plus, this is my first time (maybe last time) seeing Maiden, and I want to hear those songs.

Wrong, this tour was supposed to be the Powerslave/Somewhere In Time/Seventh Son tour. They had a wonderful tour called "The Early Years Tour" back in 2005 where you could go and see all the early material your heart desired.

ChildrenofSodom
06-08-2008, 08:02 PM
Wrong, this tour was supposed to be the Powerslave/Somewhere In Time/Seventh Son tour. They had a wonderful tour called "The Early Years Tour" back in 2005 where you could go and see all the early material your heart desired.

Its totally fucking subjective. If you dont like the set, dont go to the show. Whatever.

JRA
06-08-2008, 08:10 PM
I think people's criticism of Maiden stems from taking the internet way too seriously.

I not only agree with this 100%, I think criticism of just about any band can happen from this. That being said, it doesn't help when the internet is the only thing you have to make serious discussions about music.

I've hardly heard anyone in real life say anything shitty about Maiden talking to people, even people who are uninformed about metal or aren't even really rock fans in general. Maiden always seems to generate a lot of positive comments and reactions from people I've encountered everywhere I go, and Metallica are Sabbath are the only other metal bands who I've experienced getting the same amount of praise. Nitpicking little things that only obsessive fans like us would care about anyways doesn't reflect on the general population, and in terms of assessing the "State of the Maiden" that's what we should be looking at, and not at the minor opinions of a few internet douchebags on Ozzfest.com who slag them or of the fanboys like me and others on here who jock them constantly.

And a Maiden show without "Hallowed Be Thy Name" is one that I will not be attending :cool:

That's the problem with "general populations" though. They're too lowest common denominator and 'rock on dude' to be taken seriously. I'm not saying that fans should either be all happy or all angry with a band, but I think if a band is going to pull sneaky shit, they should be informed somehow. I call it simple questioning. For instance, let's say one guy who likes Iron Maiden and who doesn't really spend a lot of time on the internet had heard from some method otherwise than Maiden was playing in his area on the AMOLAD tour. He goes in to the show completely uninformed but is there because its Maiden? Is he open enough to handle that sort of thing?

Plus general populations are too stupid to notice cracks in the armor. Shit general populations probably don't know anything is wrong with a band until they've broken up.



Now, to NeilPeartJr:

, but I generally don't like how you tend to lump Maiden fans into the two general categories of either fanboys or those who bitch about everything.




Well, I didn't mean to do that on purpose. But again general populations are too busy with their interests in other factors, that the only people's opinions to take seriously are the hardcore lovers (or haters, if you will).

Actually, on the subject of an opening act, why does Maiden even go around with opening acts anymore? Doesn't their opening act always get booed unless its some metal diety like Dio? Maiden doesn't need any buffer to warm up the crowd, the second the lights go down people are gonna go nuts either way.

JRA
06-08-2008, 08:53 PM
One other thing I'd like to add, you didn't notice me complaining about shit like "Wrathchild" "The Number Of The Beast" & "Clairvoyant" being repetitive and needing to be permanently retired, did you? Yes, I made a case for "Heaven Can Wait," but that song was never a hit, it was never even released as a single. I complained about Heaven because of the novelty Maiden milk it for, and the fact that 22 years after Somewhere In Time comes out, only 3 songs have ever been played post-album tour.

But on the subject of the "hits," every concert needs a "hit." Sorry fanboys, I know you want your setlists of exclusively non-singles, but is not how show business works. Sure its awesome to bring out a couple of deep songs for the hardcore fans, but without one familiar song, a setlist is gonna seem like something is missing, especially on paper (and here on a setlist website, we all convince ourselves that it looks better on paper than it sounds live :D). And that goes for any band. Whenever I look in the "Dream Setlists thread" I laugh at people who post their shit devoid of the popular songs.

Let me post proof:

Prowler
The Prisoner
Caught Somewhere In Time
Still Life
Losfer Words
Out Of The Silent Planet
Drifter
Alexander The Great
No Prayer For The Dying
Phantom Of The Opera
Judas Be My Guide
Wasting Love
Deja Vu
Sun & Steel
==========
For The Greater Good Of Good
To Tame A Land
Transylvania


Look at that. That looks fucking terrible! It looks like Lauren Harris puked it up from doing after-party kegstands. Sure its got a bunch of songs that Maiden fans aren't sick of hearing, and it might make an entertaining iPod playlist (which by the way I picked all these songs from, there's not a single song I hate here), but popular songs are songs you have to play for either the n00b's (and never second guess when you have new fans watching you in concert), or for the people that like you for those popular songs.



Caught Somewhere In Time
The Evil That Men Do
Prowler
The Prisoner
Still Life
Losfer Words
Out Of The Silent Planet
Purgatory
The Longest Day
Phantom Of The Opera
Flight Of Icarus
Fear Of The Dark
Hallowed Be Thy Name
Iron Maiden
==========
Wildest Dreams
2 Minutes To Midnight
Run To The Hills

Now that looks like something that a "general population" fellow won't be intimidated by. Not only does he get a fair share of songs he's familiar from video games and compilations, but he also gets a fair share of material they can use to take the next step into Maiden's catalogue.


In conclusion, no the band should not revolve around hardcore fans, but the general population shouldn't be used as the de-facto measuring tool for progress.

DethMaiden
06-08-2008, 08:56 PM
If they bring Wasting Love back into the setlist (first time since '92?) I will kiss each one of those beautiful bastards.

JRA
06-08-2008, 09:14 PM
One final request to anybody whose seeing Maiden in the future. When Lauren Harris drops the f bomb in between songs, someone close enough to the stage shout back "Watch your mouth you little shit!" :D

ADD
06-08-2008, 09:39 PM
Prowler
The Prisoner
Caught Somewhere In Time
Still Life
Losfer Words
Out Of The Silent Planet
Drifter
Alexander The Great
No Prayer For The Dying
Phantom Of The Opera
Judas Be My Guide
Wasting Love
Deja Vu
Sun & Steel
==========
For The Greater Good Of Good
To Tame A Land
Transylvania


Look at that. That looks fucking terrible! It looks like Lauren Harris puked it up from doing after-party kegstands.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ADD
06-08-2008, 09:40 PM
One final request to anybody whose seeing Maiden in the future. When Lauren Harris drops the f bomb in between songs, someone close enough to the stage shout back "Watch your mouth you little shit!" :D
:lol: She didn't use profanity I don't think when I saw her.

JuuKun
06-09-2008, 01:22 AM
Wrong, this tour was supposed to be the Powerslave/Somewhere In Time/Seventh Son tour. They had a wonderful tour called "The Early Years Tour" back in 2005 where you could go and see all the early material your heart desired.

Actually, the tour poster had every album name from Iron Maiden to Seventh Son of a Seventh Son written on the bottom.

Which still shouldn't include Fear of the Dark, but it seems it was not meant to be exclusively the Powerslave/Somewhere in Time/Seventh Son tour.

Fe Maiden
06-09-2008, 08:12 AM
Any set-list that Maiden puts together that includes Aces High, Revelations, Rime, Powerslave, Moonchild, HBTN, & The Trooper is far from LAZY IMO! It is simply them "delivering the goods" so to speak. These are the type of songs that showcase all that is the phenomenon known as Iron Maiden!!!

The three shows I attended on this current tour are among the best I've ever been to in my 30 years of concert going and believe me I've seen plenty of good shows! The only improvements I would have made if I had the power to do so would be to drop CIPWM and FOTD and add in CSIT and Where Eagles Dare. Those however are only for my own personal reasons! I have NO complaints about the current set list! It was enjoyable!

I, for one would love to see another album in the vein of POM, SIT, or Powerslave. Maiden at their best IMO!

UP THE IRONS!!!

JRA
06-09-2008, 08:15 AM
The three shows I attended on this current tour are among the best I've ever been to in my 30 years of concert going and believe me I've seen plenty of good shows! The only improvements I would have made if I had the power to do so would be to drop CIPWM and FOTD and add in CSIT and Where Eagles Dare. Those however are only for my own personal reasons! I have NO complaints about the current set list! It was enjoyable!



I agree with you, but I highly doubt Maiden would want to trade in a 3 minute song (CIPWN) for a 6 minute one (Where Eagles Dare)

Fe Maiden
06-09-2008, 08:33 AM
I agree with you, but I highly doubt Maiden would want to trade in a 3 minute song (CIPWN) for a 6 minute one (Where Eagles Dare)As I said, that would be for my own personal reasons!

EvilCheeseWedge
06-09-2008, 09:38 AM
How To Fix Iron Maiden In Five Easy Steps

1. Steve Harris can only write one song per album.

2. All greatest hits albums will be deleted. When the band retires, they will release one greatest hits album encompassing all their releases. Until then, people can buy the fucking albums, scope out the songs on YouTube, or make their own greatest hits by buying shit on iTunes.

3. No more re-released singles, or albums. When the band is done touring and recording and Steve spends his days sitting in a rocking chair, maybe it's time to re-master the albums. And "Run to the Hills" does not need to be released as a single ever again.

4. Live albums can be recorded any time, every tour, twice a tour, whatever, but Steve Harris is not having any say, control, or even input on the editing.

5. Bruce Dickinson has to personally use every piece of Iron Maiden merchandise the band authorizes. Instead of yelling at the fans eating hot dogs, he will be legally obligated to inform them that they, “Should consider storing your fine line lunch meats in this sturdily crafted Iron Maiden lunch box, available for $19.99 before tax.”

DethMaiden
06-09-2008, 09:42 AM
First of all, I don't agree with you decision to move and stick this at all. Basically you're saying: "I agree, thus I will favor your topic and stick it".
Secondly, I'm REALLY getting sick and tired of saying this to people: Lauren Harris is better than the grand majority of opening acts Maiden has had on the East Coast of the states here over the last several years. Bullet For My Valentine? Arch Enemy? Ozzfest bands? No thanks, I'll take Lauren Harris thank you. I'll take poppy suckage that's easy to ignore and doesn't rape the ears of the unwilling over the aforementioned options.


He doesn't entirely agree as he showed. The post was very well thought out and I feel it deserves a sticky as well. And what the fuck are you talking about, Ed stickied your radio show thread as well. Maybe he should take both down to prove he isn't showing favorites.

Also, if you think Lauren Harris is better than Arch Enemy, suck a dick.

hot_turkey_ed
06-09-2008, 10:43 AM
How To Fix Iron Maiden In Five Easy Steps

1. Steve Harris can only write one song per album.

2. All greatest hits albums will be deleted. When the band retires, they will release one greatest hits album encompassing all their releases. Until then, people can buy the fucking albums, scope out the songs on YouTube, or make their own greatest hits by buying shit on iTunes.

3. No more re-released singles, or albums. When the band is done touring and recording and Steve spends his days sitting in a rocking chair, maybe it's time to re-master the albums. And "Run to the Hills" does not need to be released as a single ever again.

4. Live albums can be recorded any time, every tour, twice a tour, whatever, but Steve Harris is not having any say, control, or even input on the editing.

5. Bruce Dickinson has to personally use every piece of Iron Maiden merchandise the band authorizes. Instead of yelling at the fans eating hot dogs, he will be legally obligated to inform them that they, “Should consider storing your fine line lunch meats in this sturdily crafted Iron Maiden lunch box, available for $19.99 before tax.”

1. A POX ON YOU! :finger:

2. I like their greatest hits albums AND even play them. :finger:

3. I say more singles because that will mean more B sides. More Tea Vicar! Pass The Jam! :finger2:

4. Ok, you pretty much nailed this one on the DVD front. :allan:

5. I'd ask that Bruce burn his stage pants with the little strips on them. And, for the record, I like my Trooper lunchbox. :fingers:

hot_turkey_ed
06-09-2008, 10:46 AM
Prowler
The Prisoner
Caught Somewhere In Time
Still Life
Losfer Words
Out Of The Silent Planet
Drifter
Alexander The Great
No Prayer For The Dying
Phantom Of The Opera
Judas Be My Guide
Wasting Love
Deja Vu
Sun & Steel
==========
For The Greater Good Of Good
To Tame A Land
Transylvania



I like that list, although I would reorder it. :eyes:

hot_turkey_ed
06-09-2008, 10:57 AM
He doesn't entirely agree as he showed. The post was very well thought out and I feel it deserves a sticky as well. And what the fuck are you talking about, Ed stickied your radio show thread as well. Maybe he should take both down to prove he isn't showing favorites.

:fist:

Whether I agree or disagree, I've been very unambiguous in my replies. It's all there for Google to remember for an eternity. I sticked this thread because it was well written and very timely. I had one in mind coming from a different perspective, but that's ok. I REALLY appreciate that NPJ took the time to write it up.

EvilCheeseWedge
06-09-2008, 10:57 AM
1. A POX ON YOU! :finger:

2. I like their greatest hits albums AND even play them. :finger:

3. I say more singles because that will mean more B sides. More Tea Vicar! Pass The Jam! :finger2:

4. Ok, you pretty much nailed this one on the DVD front. :allan:

5. I'd ask that Bruce burn his stage pants with the little strips on them. And, for the record, I like my Trooper lunchbox. :fingers:

1. Think about it like this though, if Steve Harris knew he could only write one song per album... maybe he'd really spend his time on it, and make sure that he packs as much awesome in to it as possible. (Yeah, not likely, but still...)

2. Hey, I own one as well, but really, they just have too many. The fact they aren't allowed any until retirement is more punishment then anything else ;)

3. They can release new singles... they just can't re-release old singles ;)


4. :rocker:

5. Hey the lunch box is a great place to store your hot dogs for during show snacking ;)

hot_turkey_ed
06-09-2008, 11:05 AM
1. Think about it like this though, if Steve Harris knew he could only write one song per album... maybe he'd really spend his time on it, and make sure that he packs as much awesome in to it as possible. (Yeah, not likely, but still...)

2. Hey, I own one as well, but really, they just have too many. The fact they aren't allowed any until retirement is more punishment then anything else ;)

3. They can release new singles... they just can't re-release old singles ;)


4. :rocker:

5. Hey the lunch box is a great place to store your hot dogs for during show snacking ;)


Iron Maiden could cover Mary Had A Lamb and I'd put it into my Maiden shuffle. The bass intro AND outro would be utterly righteous. :shred:

Punishment for whom? Me or the band? :nutkick:

This last set of shows, my lunch box would have been destroyed on the rail. Besides, I don't want to smell like elementary school cafeteria. The box is not really big enough to haul beer around in for tailgating either. It's best that it stays at home.

ADD
06-09-2008, 11:26 AM
Iron Maiden could cover Mary Had A Lamb and I'd put it into my Maiden shuffle. The bass intro AND outro would be utterly righteous. :shred:



:lol: :metal:

JRA
06-09-2008, 12:32 PM
I was gonna add something about the constant greatest hits albums releases, but I forgot about it, and I wanted to get this up ASAP.

Honestly in this day and age of Mp3's, iTunes, and burnable CD's, I'm surprised anybody (inculding record executives) consider those albums relevant anymore. All pissed off that Genocide and Blood Red Skies aren't on the same 80-minute disc? Go to a college book store and pick up a set of blank CD's. And you know what, if you're complaining that you only want one disc with the "hits" of a band, tough shit. If I have to buy AC/DC's Bon Scott albums one by one, so do you. :finger:

EvilCheeseWedge
06-09-2008, 12:39 PM
Iron Maiden could cover Mary Had A Lamb and I'd put it into my Maiden shuffle. The bass intro AND outro would be utterly righteous. :shred:

Punishment for whom? Me or the band? :nutkick:

This last set of shows, my lunch box would have been destroyed on the rail. Besides, I don't want to smell like elementary school cafeteria. The box is not really big enough to haul beer around in for tailgating either. It's best that it stays at home.

:lol:

The band... especially when you have the band's full disco, iTunes, and an iPod, I'm really not sure what point greatest hits sets serve at all... you can make your own, anytime... limit to a time period, a line-up, whatever. As for new fans? Greatest hits are a great way to get into a band, but then again, a little YouTubin', or buyin' select songs on iTunes pretty much does the trick as well.

:lol: Well my point overall is that there's a lot of stuff with the Iron Maiden logo on it out there ;)

hot_turkey_ed
06-09-2008, 01:03 PM
:lol:

The band... especially when you have the band's full disco, iTunes, and an iPod, I'm really not sure what point greatest hits sets serve at all... you can make your own, anytime... limit to a time period, a line-up, whatever. As for new fans? Greatest hits are a great way to get into a band, but then again, a little YouTubin', or buyin' select songs on iTunes pretty much does the trick as well.

:lol: Well my point overall is that there's a lot of stuff with the Iron Maiden logo on it out there ;)

I can make my own lists and regularly do. However, the cd I burn don't work or last in my car. I don't want to upgrade the stereo for this reason alone because I otherwise love my pos system. Greatest hits collections are for people who want just that -- the hits -- or fans like me who will buy damn near anything they put in my music store. Hell, I'd like MORE stuff with Iron Maiden on it. :fingers:

Seriously, instead of raising the issue of a greatest hits cd, why not go after their Eddie merchandising, specifically all the shirts? Does Maiden putting out Best Of The Beast, Edward The Great, and the Somewhere Back In Time - Best Of really concern you that much? What about all of the shirts?

A lot of what you have written, I perceive in a nutshell as embroidery those infamous Maiden 2005 shit stains. Am I wrong?

EvilCheeseWedge
06-09-2008, 01:50 PM
A lot of what you have written, I perceive in a nutshell as embroidery those infamous Maiden 2005 shit stains. Am I wrong?

No, I'm over the thing in 2005 :) In all honesty, Iron Maiden has just faded for me, and not necessarily just because of that show. The new albums just don't excite me. Three years ago I couldn't get enough of Dance of Death, but to me, AMOLAD, with a few exceptions, is not just a continuation of that theme, but practically a replication. I just don't find the band exciting like I used to. Except for a few songs that never fail to please me (like 2 Minutes) I find that Iron Maiden has generally dropped off my regular listening radar.

I do wish they toured a bit more here, and that it wasn't so expensive. One of the reasons I can stay rather consistent with my enjoyment of Queensryche, for example, is that I know there's basically a 90% chance I can spend $40 and be front and center at a Queensryche show in a given year. Unless the show sucks, that usually gets me excited about a band. But Iron Maiden? It was gonna cost over $60 just to grab a seat this summer...

Iron Maiden has dropped from being one of my favorite bands to just a band that I enjoy and track casually. I seriously kid with my suggestions... in my opinion a band should set its own course, write what it wants, play what it wants, etc. Perhaps the fact that it's not a-typical to see these huge write ups on the Internets about Iron Maiden is a testament to the power they have as band, and their ability to create lasting fans. On the other hand, I think this has definitely had the effect of boxing them in, and I mean that in terms of about everything from what they write to what they play to what they say.

I guess what I'm saying is, nah, I don't care about the 2005 stuff. Bruce is a dick, but that hardly implicates the rest of the band anyways, and that's not to say I didn't enjoy their set anyways. It's more a matter of I'm just not passionate about 'em as a whole anymore. I'll continue to buy their new studio albums, and I'll continue to shake my head every time I see a new greatest hits package that includes a bonus re-mastered lunch box ;)

Div
06-09-2008, 02:14 PM
Best Hits albums can be damaging. Sure the die hard fan will want more eddie artwork on his shelf, but the new guys will get a disk with their best material and then start judging those songs based on each other, instead of judging them based on the album they were intended to go on, and hearing a bands best work in one sitting wont leave much to look forward to. Plus each album has its own unique sounds to it, like Somewhere in Time and the synthesizers, so they sound out of place all jumbled together. Overall I think best of albums reduce the appreciation value of the music for new listeners, and marketing it at them can backfire.

EDIT: When I was first listening to their discography I would listen to one album at a time for a couple weeks, get familiar with it, and let it sink in before moving on to the next. If I had thrown everything on one massive playlist and set it to random I'm sure I wouldn't have understood it as well.

JRA
06-09-2008, 02:28 PM
Best Hits albums can be damaging. Sure the die hard fan will want more eddie artwork on his shelf, but the new guys will get a disk with their best material and then start judging those songs based on each other, instead of judging them based on the album they were intended to go on, and hearing a bands best work in one sitting wont leave much to look forward to. Plus each album has its own unique sounds to it, like Somewhere in Time and the synthesizers, so they sound out of place all jumbled together. Overall I think best of albums reduce the appreciation value of the music for new listeners, and marketing it at them can backfire.


I don't think that's entirely true. The first Maiden album I got was "Best of the Beast" (the single disc version), and I was still blown away by how good NOTB, SIT, and 7th Son were as albums.

ADD
06-09-2008, 03:19 PM
I agree with Pavo, sweatin the greatest hits albums is a lot weaker than going after the KISS-like Maiden Merchandise Machine. I could get behind a rant on that.

powerslave_85
06-09-2008, 03:48 PM
I thought about talking about their merchandising, but I didn't really know what else to say about it other than "they put their name on just about anything."

hot_turkey_ed
06-09-2008, 06:43 PM
I thought about talking about their merchandising, but I didn't really know what else to say about it other than "they put their name on just about anything."

Maybe the silliest maiden merc is the bath robe? That's a long way from a Kiss coffin.

Considering Steve Harris and co owns the metal equivalent of Mickey Mouse, you think they would be doing A LOT more merchandising.

hot_turkey_ed
06-09-2008, 06:52 PM
No, I'm over the thing in 2005 :) In all honesty, Iron Maiden has just faded for me, and not necessarily just because of that show. The new albums just don't excite me. Three years ago I couldn't get enough of Dance of Death, but to me, AMOLAD, with a few exceptions, is not just a continuation of that theme, but practically a replication. I just don't find the band exciting like I used to. Except for a few songs that never fail to please me (like 2 Minutes) I find that Iron Maiden has generally dropped off my regular listening radar.

I do wish they toured a bit more here, and that it wasn't so expensive. One of the reasons I can stay rather consistent with my enjoyment of Queensryche, for example, is that I know there's basically a 90% chance I can spend $40 and be front and center at a Queensryche show in a given year. Unless the show sucks, that usually gets me excited about a band. But Iron Maiden? It was gonna cost over $60 just to grab a seat this summer...

Iron Maiden has dropped from being one of my favorite bands to just a band that I enjoy and track casually. I seriously kid with my suggestions... in my opinion a band should set its own course, write what it wants, play what it wants, etc. Perhaps the fact that it's not a-typical to see these huge write ups on the Internets about Iron Maiden is a testament to the power they have as band, and their ability to create lasting fans. On the other hand, I think this has definitely had the effect of boxing them in, and I mean that in terms of about everything from what they write to what they play to what they say.

I guess what I'm saying is, nah, I don't care about the 2005 stuff. Bruce is a dick, but that hardly implicates the rest of the band anyways, and that's not to say I didn't enjoy their set anyways. It's more a matter of I'm just not passionate about 'em as a whole anymore. I'll continue to buy their new studio albums, and I'll continue to shake my head every time I see a new greatest hits package that includes a bonus re-mastered lunch box ;)


That's fair. Part of me kind of likes Maiden's schedule; it makes the concert that much more special and out of the ordinary. It would be nice to know that I'd get to see them every summer (like the previous clockwork of Ozzfest) .... When the special becomes ordinary and regular , it can lose its magic and beauty. It is nice to know that you can count on a band to come through regularly....

You're right about the cost of Maiden adventures. The money adds up quickly between airfare, hotel, tickets, merch, beer, more merch, taxis, and more beer.

AMOLOD was a great next album for Maiden. I'm glad they made it. I'm even happier that they played the whole thing live. :agree:

A remastered lunch box? :bliss:

Iron Maiden was boxed in a long time ago. The nature of marketing and creating a brand does that with any degree of success. I'll probably have to just dream about that Mary cover. :cool:

powerslave_85
06-09-2008, 07:10 PM
I don't hold anything against the people who buy all the crazy Maiden merch. I mean, if you want to drop your hard earned cash on a Maiden thong and a NOTB lunchbox, be my guest. It's just that it bothers me when bands embrace crass commercialism so...thouroughly. And really guys, does everything have to be so motherfucking expensive? $35 for a t-shirt is ri-goddamn-diculous. I know a lot of bands do this, but since we're talking about Maiden I'll pick on them. At most of the other shows I go to, I might drop $15-$20 on a shirt, TOPS. There's just no excuse for anything higher than that.

rjturtle9
06-09-2008, 09:10 PM
I don't hold anything against the people who buy all the crazy Maiden merch. I mean, if you want to drop your hard earned cash on a Maiden thong and a NOTB lunchbox, be my guest. It's just that it bothers me when bands embrace crass commercialism so...thouroughly. And really guys, does everything have to be so motherfucking expensive? $35 for a t-shirt is ri-goddamn-diculous. I know a lot of bands do this, but since we're talking about Maiden I'll pick on them. At most of the other shows I go to, I might drop $15-$20 on a shirt, TOPS. There's just no excuse for anything higher than that.

haha man i bought 4 shirts at the irvine show. you have a point cause other shows, shirts only cost 20, but it really depends on how much u want the stuff. some people are willing to pay that much, others are not. it's just ur choice. but yeah shirts are getting expensive at concerts.

powerslave_85
06-09-2008, 09:16 PM
Yeah, but it seems to me that more people would be willing to buy shirts if they were reasonably priced. I mean, anyone going to a Maiden show already paid a ton of cash for tickets, food, parking, gas, and other shit, so cut us some slack on the merch.

DethMaiden
06-09-2008, 09:18 PM
Good thing Maiden are Maiden. I spent close to $600 to see them in Canada all expenses considered. :eyes:

SomewhereInTime72
06-10-2008, 08:17 AM
Shit, this is a good thread.

Fe Maiden
06-10-2008, 08:28 AM
Maybe the silliest maiden merc is the bath robe? I did not know they had a bath robe!:lol: What really got me was the $20 key chain!:eek:

Maiden33
06-11-2008, 03:39 PM
He doesn't entirely agree as he showed. The post was very well thought out and I feel it deserves a sticky as well. And what the fuck are you talking about, Ed stickied your radio show thread as well. Maybe he should take both down to prove he isn't showing favorites.

Also, if you think Lauren Harris is better than Arch Enemy, suck a dick.

You have to be the most two faced piece of shit I have ever known. I don't understand how you can actually be a nice person on AIM or whatever but on here you're the first person to throw me under the bus. I don't know why, I act no differently on here, but I think you must think it makes you cool or something.

1.Sticking my Radio Show thread had nothing to do with showing favoritism. My radio show has absolutely nothing to do with difference of opinion, it was just a favor because it's an endeavor if mine. If the topic had been like: "We only play Type A music because Type B music sucks!" and he was like: "I'm sticking this because I also hate Type B music!", then it would be the same, but as it is now, there's absolutely zero connection.

2.See my previous arguments. Lauren Harris may suck, but she doesn't assault the ears of the unwilling.

hot_turkey_ed
06-11-2008, 04:13 PM
You have to be the most two faced piece of shit I have ever known. I don't understand how you can actually be a nice person on AIM or whatever but on here you're the first person to throw me under the bus. I don't know why, I act no differently on here, but I think you must think it makes you cool or something.

1.Sticking my Radio Show thread had nothing to do with showing favoritism. My radio show has absolutely nothing to do with difference of opinion, it was just a favor because it's an endeavor if mine. If the topic had been like: "We only play Type A music because Type B music sucks!" and he was like: "I'm sticking this because I also hate Type B music!", then it would be the same, but as it is now, there's absolutely zero connection.

2.See my previous arguments. Lauren Harris may suck, but she doesn't assault the ears of the unwilling.

No one is throwing anyone under the bus. If you guys want to have a go at each other, please take to PM or IM please.

:whipped:

JRA
06-11-2008, 04:23 PM
This thread is 8 pages long and Eric has yet to shit on anybody. My best guess is he hates me for writting this, so he's waiting for me in a dark alley with a slice of chocolate cake so he jump me and squeeze out a Trooper Eddie shaped dump on my chest. :eyes:

EvilCheeseWedge
06-12-2008, 08:24 AM
This thread is 8 pages long and Eric has yet to shit on anybody. My best guess is he hates me for writting this, so he's waiting for me in a dark alley with a slice of chocolate cake so he jump me and squeeze out a Trooper Eddie shaped dump on my chest. :eyes:

I know how you feel.

I know he's out there, waiting to "re-educate" me in the ways of Maiden :eyes:

SomewhereInTime72
06-16-2008, 02:01 PM
This isn't too relevant to the discussion, but I haven't been able to gather my thoughts well enough to contribute much of anything else to this discussion. So...

Regarding the current tours setlist, I'm more than happy with it. I've seen Maiden a total of 6 times, two of which were on this tour, and I must say that this tour is easily the best of the lot of 'em. And concerning Fear of the Dark: The band's top priority is putting on a good show and quite honestly, Fear of the Dark fit in with the show very well. If anything the weak point was Can I Play With Madness.

What I take the biggest issue with is the lack of anything from Killers. Straight up, it just shouldn't be on the tour poster if they're not playing anything from it, so they could have at least slipped in fucking Wrathchild or something. As to other complaints - Yes, I know, we all wanted a tour with nothing but songs from Powerslave to Seventh Son, which could only have been more incredible as we were hinted at some 2 years ago. However, bands change their minds about things all the fucking time, and if you've come to expect everything Maiden says to turn out 100% true, well I'm sorry. In this respect, yes Maiden aren't perfect, but they're a lot better than many many other bands, and quite frankly, I'm just glad they deliver what they do. I wish I could see this fucking tour again.

In a nutshell, everything Maiden ever does is right - 1r0n m41d3n f4nb0yz 4 lyf3

JRA
06-17-2008, 06:29 AM
However, bands change their minds about things all the fucking time, and if you've come to expect everything Maiden says to turn out 100% true, well I'm sorry.

In a nutshell, everything Maiden ever does is right - 1r0n m41d3n f4nb0yz 4 lyf3

I suppose that's my overall problem. Maiden promise something cool and it reverts back to laziness

LOL Uz a G@nG$ta!1

Waycos
08-04-2008, 01:09 PM
I suppose that's my overall problem. Maiden promise something cool and it reverts back to laziness


Is it Maiden's fault that you believed some odd rumor? I actually never heard that they were doing songs off of just the two albums. What I heard originally about this tour was that it would cover songs just from Powerslave to No Prayer... the tours never work out to be what you hear in rumors.

SomewhereInTime72
08-04-2008, 03:55 PM
Is it Maiden's fault that you believed some odd rumor? I actually never heard that they were doing songs off of just the two albums. What I heard originally about this tour was that it would cover songs just from Powerslave to No Prayer... the tours never work out to be what you hear in rumors.

Bruce Dickinson said something about Powerslave - Seventh Son in a few interviews about a year/year and a half back.

cradle_of_maiden
08-04-2008, 04:25 PM
I didn't really have a problem with the last tour, considering it was my first Maiden show ever and I got to see it with my dad who witnessed most of the same songs he heard when he saw them back in '85. The only thing that put a somewhat downer on the evening was the annoying absence of Caught Somewhere in Time and Alexander the Great. Im hoping to see Maiden again, and hopefully again and again after that but if I don't, I can at least say I saw them once and that they played one hell of a good fucking show(and I got some trinkets from Nicko and Dave ;))

JRA
08-04-2008, 05:05 PM
Yay! My 8 and half pages of fanboyish ranting gets necromanced! :D

Bruce Dickinson said something about Powerslave - Seventh Son in a few interviews about a year/year and a half back.

Exactly. Which is why many people were expecting the likes of the first 4 albums to take a long deserved break. Not that Maiden would have had the balls to do it. ;)

Waycos
08-05-2008, 06:21 AM
Exactly. Which is why many people were expecting the likes of the first 4 albums to take a long deserved break...

But everyone knows that Harris, not Dickenson is the power behind that band.

Sinfulsot
08-08-2008, 08:24 PM
i saw Iron Maiden @ PNC in July, my first time. and as i have been following this thread, there was talk about how there was no song from Killers, but for the show i saw, they intro'd with Transylvania.

Perhaps i missed that in the 9+ pages of this thread, but i thought i throw it out there in the event it was overlooked.

JRA
01-14-2012, 01:32 PM
http://www.necromancetheband.com/promo1.jpg


Read this for the first time in years. I still like it, and still agree with most of it, but it's a bit bloated and most of the fat is me trying to be funny. Humor is all well and good, but when you have something like this its best to keep it as tight as possible.

BloodoftheKings
01-14-2012, 01:38 PM
Jesus, this place really was a glorified Maiden fan site.

es156
01-14-2012, 03:01 PM
Jesus, this place really was a glorified Maiden fan site.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

:tp:

es156
01-14-2012, 03:02 PM
Moving this to general chat, btw.

powerslave_85
01-14-2012, 03:36 PM
Jesus, this place really was a glorified Maiden fan site.
Kind of obvious considering it was initially created and populated by official Maiden message board castaways.

es156
01-14-2012, 03:50 PM
Kind of obvious considering it was initially created and populated by official Maiden message board castaways.


:lol:

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale....

illuminatus917
01-14-2012, 04:01 PM
What a dialogue. Too bad discussion on this site isn't nearly as concentrated anymore.

JRA
01-14-2012, 06:53 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing.

:tp:

Amen.


:lol:

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale....

I hear these lines and I think of Wyclef Jean. :eyes:

This is why
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euYQ67RraAo