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ChildrenofSodom
11-11-2007, 07:27 PM
Got back from the Junior Statesmen of America Fall State Convention earlier today. It is basically a gathering ofdifferent chapters (groups) of high school students from the Ohio River Valley (mostly all of Ohio, some of Indiana, some Kentucky, some Tennessee). There are 9 blocks, or rounds (6 Saturday, 3 Sunday) and then 5 or 6 different debates within each room. It was an excellent oppurtunity to express my own opinions, meet people that have similar opinions, debate intelligently with people who have differing opinions, and laugh at all the nutcases in between.

The debates basically were either an open room discussion, or an actual Congress-style debate with time restraints, pro/con subsequent speakers, motions, etc.

I got a chance to debate whether the victory in the War on Terror was attainable (I said no), whether pro-anorexia websites should be shut down (no), whether the US should forcefully shut down Iran's nuclear program (no), whether the US should boycott the Olympics to protest Chinese human rights abuse (no), whether the US should halt its use of extraordinary rendition (yes), whether marijuana, in all forms, should be legalized (yes), whether the assasination of a dictator may be justified (yes if by own people, no if by foreign nation), and whether the legal institution of marriage be entirely replaced by a supersized version of civil unions (yes).

It was really fun and enlightening. I dont know why I am sharing this with you all (you probably dont care), but i want to point out that I got booed during one of my speeches. During the format called "Speed Chess", where you make a point and hit the gavel, then your opponent replies and hits his gavel, this really hardcore Christian kid was saying that by civil unions and marriage were seperate but equal, but I quoted Ayn Rands philosophy against collectivism, and said that his (and the anti-gay marriage lobby) were looking at people in groups (gay/straight) instead of individuals, and that by designating seperate institutions of union (marriage/CU), they were basically saying that gays were inferior to straights and did not deserve the same rights as them. He said that large portion of Americans were against gay marriage and that our leaders in Washington did not have to cater to the minority (gays). To which I replied "Our leaders may be theocratic fascists, but that doesnt mean we have to believe everything that they say." They didnt like that too much :D

overkiller
11-12-2007, 06:18 AM
"Separate but equal," where have we heard that before? :tp:

Div
11-12-2007, 07:36 AM
It's pretty disgusting when people who claim to be religious focus more on the banishment of other types of people than the whole message of "love thy neighbor" "treat others as you wish to be treated" etc. What's even more troubling is when the same people will put a politician on the same level as their messiah just as long as he says "god" every once in awhile.

ravenheart
11-12-2007, 08:11 AM
It's pretty disgusting when people claim to be religious

I agree.

ChildrenofSodom
11-12-2007, 08:21 AM
"Separate but equal," where have we heard that before? :tp:

Exactly. Basically, saying that gays and straights are equal but deserve different institutions of unity, is the same as saying that blacks and whites are equal, but deserve segregated eating establishments and schools.

When my side brought up that Brown V. BOE got rid of that theory of seperate but equal, and the other side said that only applied to civil rights and education. :hecho:

I also failed to mention that whilst I was debating this hardcore Christian kid (before my theocratic fascist line), he offered perhaps the most bass ackward train of thought. Well, yah see, Christians believe that gays do not deserve to get married. But if they government lets gays get married, they are disagreeing with the Christians, therefore, stepping upon their first amendment right of freedom of religion! He then proceeded to tell me to 'read the Constitution.' My rebuttal consisted of me telling HIM to read the Constitution, and realize that they same amendment he claims protects him, also prohibits government from respecting an establishment, and that government should not cater to the religous right.

He didnt like that.

JRA
11-12-2007, 09:41 AM
I also failed to mention that whilst I was debating this hardcore Christian kid (before my theocratic fascist line), he offered perhaps the most bass ackward train of thought. Well, yah see, Christians believe that gays do not deserve to get married. But if they government lets gays get married, they are disagreeing with the Christians, therefore, stepping upon their first amendment right of freedom of religion! He then proceeded to tell me to 'read the Constitution.'

I think he might want to get his brain checked for crabs.

EvilCheeseWedge
11-12-2007, 09:46 AM
Ugh that kid you speak of makes me scared for our future, if only because I know there are so many others like him out there.

As for your actual stances, I would've been on your side for all of them except for China. I think in general American's attitude to China is very hypocritical in context to how we would treat other non-Chinese nations doing what China does. Although I do realize that China is quite a powerful nation. I do suspect a lot of Americans do not realize this though...

SomewhereInTime72
11-12-2007, 12:04 PM
China could kick our ass, economically.

SirLardsAlot
11-12-2007, 03:13 PM
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MetalDrummer888
11-12-2007, 04:36 PM
I got a chance to debate whether the victory in the War on Terror was attainable (I said no), whether pro-anorexia websites should be shut down (no), whether the US should forcefully shut down Iran's nuclear program (no), whether the US should boycott the Olympics to protest Chinese human rights abuse (no), whether the US should halt its use of extraordinary rendition (yes), whether marijuana, in all forms, should be legalized (yes), whether the assasination of a dictator may be justified (yes if by own people, no if by foreign nation), and whether the legal institution of marriage be entirely replaced by a supersized version of civil unions (yes).


you know whats funny? I totally agree with you on all those issues.

what happened?? :eyes:

ChildrenofSodom
11-12-2007, 04:53 PM
Ugh that kid you speak of makes me scared for our future, if only because I know there are so many others like him out there.

As for your actual stances, I would've been on your side for all of them except for China. I think in general American's attitude to China is very hypocritical in context to how we would treat other non-Chinese nations doing what China does. Although I do realize that China is quite a powerful nation. I do suspect a lot of Americans do not realize this though...

I completely think that what China is doing is awful and actions need to be taken....but....Why do it at the Olympics? Must we wait 2 or 4 years everytime we want to make a statement? If we wanted to address China's human rights violations, why have we not done it yet?

And the group that was arguing the pro position at the debate was saying that America was a beacon for human rights, freedom, and equality....I disagree. We parade this nation to be so great, when in reality, we have, and currently are committing grave human rights and civil liberties violations at home and abroad. Also, another way to make a statement against China? QUIT BUILDING WAGE SLAVE FACTORIES IN CHINA! QUIT BUYING CHEAP SHIT FROM CHINA! QUIT BORROWING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM CHINA TO FUND THE WAR!

DethMaiden
11-12-2007, 04:57 PM
http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/all_things_beautiful/images/filibuster_alito.jpg

Div
11-12-2007, 05:14 PM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4866/1194738770532gl4.jpg

ChildrenofSodom
11-12-2007, 06:07 PM
My friend has a t-shirt of that. :lol:

ChildrenofSodom
11-12-2007, 06:10 PM
A girl also said that tihs effort to bring homosexual rights up to par with hetero rights sounded socialistic. "All this talk of making everyone equal...that sounds alot like socialism and communism...and I dont think anyone here wants socialism and communism."

Really? Because I am pretty sure those are economic systems, and besides that, equal rights is an essential facet of our democratic system. Dumbass.

EvilCheeseWedge
11-12-2007, 07:46 PM
I completely think that what China is doing is awful and actions need to be taken....but....Why do it at the Olympics? Must we wait 2 or 4 years everytime we want to make a statement? If we wanted to address China's human rights violations, why have we not done it yet?

And the group that was arguing the pro position at the debate was saying that America was a beacon for human rights, freedom, and equality....I disagree. We parade this nation to be so great, when in reality, we have, and currently are committing grave human rights and civil liberties violations at home and abroad. Also, another way to make a statement against China? QUIT BUILDING WAGE SLAVE FACTORIES IN CHINA! QUIT BUYING CHEAP SHIT FROM CHINA! QUIT BORROWING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM CHINA TO FUND THE WAR!

Okay, that's a good point. I didn't look at it from that angle.

And yes, you hit the nail on the head about why we tolerate China ;)

Fe Maiden
11-13-2007, 12:11 PM
whether marijuana, in all forms, should be legalized (yes):stoned::fist:

ChildrenofSodom
11-13-2007, 12:14 PM
:stoned::fist:


Arent you a teacher? :eyes:

SomewhereInTime72
11-13-2007, 12:19 PM
Arent you a teacher? :eyes:

goddamn liberals poisoning our childrens minds they should all be fired i'll teach them

ChildrenofSodom
11-13-2007, 12:48 PM
goddamn liberals poisoning our childrens minds they should all be fired i'll teach them

If you smoke pot, more power to you...but you just dont see many teachers involved with mind-altering drugs. :eyes: Except my English teacher, who smells of vodka.

zgodt
11-13-2007, 01:05 PM
If you smoke pot, more power to you...but you just dont see many teachers involved with mind-altering drugs. :eyes: Except my English teacher, who smells of vodka.
You don't have to smoke pot (I don't) in order to believe it should be legal (I do).

Spiral_Slave
11-13-2007, 01:12 PM
You don't have to smoke pot (I don't) in order to believe it should be legal (I do).

:fist:

Alchohol, tobacco, and Salvia(holy shit) being legal iand marijuana not being legal is absolutely mind-blowing to me. What is the government's basis for making it illegal anyway? They could make it legal, tax it, and make a billions and billions of dollars.

JRA
11-13-2007, 01:51 PM
:fist:

Alchohol, tobacco, and Salvia(holy shit) being legal iand marijuana not being legal is absolutely mind-blowing to me. What is the government's basis for making it illegal anyway? They could make it legal, tax it, and make a billions and billions of dollars.

Bill Hicks always thought it was because people could make a profit off of it. As opposed to the prescription companies making profits off of their drugs which supposedly doing the same thing.

ADD
11-13-2007, 02:15 PM
Well that's a helluva fun weekend :lol:

Fe Maiden
11-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Arent you a teacher? :eyes:Yes, and as others have said, just because I feel it should be legal (for medicinal uses for example), does not mean I am a user. :tp:

ADD
11-13-2007, 02:27 PM
And while they're at it someone get them to lower the drinking age to 18 already, this is retarded. You can do EVERYTHING else except legally have alcohol. :wtf:

Fe Maiden
11-13-2007, 02:27 PM
goddamn liberals poisoning our childrens minds they should all be fired i'll teach themI am not a liberal nor a pot smoker thank you!

Fe Maiden
11-13-2007, 02:28 PM
If you smoke pot, more power to you...but you just dont see many teachers involved with mind-altering drugs. :eyes: Except my English teacher, who smells of vodka.I don't, so relax! I may have dabbled in it for a while many years ago in college and my early 20's but not anymore!

Fe Maiden
11-13-2007, 02:30 PM
And while they're at it someone get them to lower the drinking age to 18 already, this is retarded. You can do EVERYTHING else except legally have alcohol.Yes, what a great idea! Let's get more immature people intoxicated and behind the wheel of cars! (sarcasm intended if not obvious)
And, NO you cannot do EVERYTHING else!

ADD
11-13-2007, 02:34 PM
Yes, what a great idea! Let's get more immature people intoxicated and behind the wheel of cars! (sarcasm intended if not obvious)
Yes! Let's let kids smoke, enlist for the army, make porno, but noooo god forbid they be able to drink at 18! America must know something the rest of the entire WORLD doesn't :rolleyes:

ADD
11-13-2007, 02:36 PM
And, NO you cannot do EVERYTHING else!

You are a legal adult in the United States at age 18 as far as I'm aware of. You can VOTE FOR YOUR PRESIDENT, and can DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRY, but you can't have a beer?

SomewhereInTime72
11-13-2007, 03:21 PM
I am not a liberal nor a pot smoker thank you!

:D:D

I'm with Addi on the drinking issues, the only reason the age is 21 is cause our government likes to cave in to activist groups like MADD, whether or not they make actual sense.

Besides it's not like they're stopping me. :eyes:

ChildrenofSodom
11-13-2007, 04:30 PM
Yes, and as others have said, just because I feel it should be legal (for medicinal uses for example), does not mean I am a user. :tp:

Yeah..I know. I don't know why I said that....:eyes:

ChildrenofSodom
11-13-2007, 04:32 PM
One of the anti-marijuana arguments was that it will become more widely available to kids if legal (moreso than alcohol, tobacco, and guns) and that people will drive high.

powerslave_85
11-13-2007, 04:58 PM
...people will drive high.At 5 miles an hour.

JRA
11-13-2007, 05:13 PM
:D:D

I'm with Addi on the drinking issues, the only reason the age is 21 is cause our government likes to cave in to activist groups like MADD, whether or not they make actual sense.

Besides it's not like they're stopping me. :eyes:

The government should cave in to DAMM.:D

ChildrenofSodom
11-13-2007, 06:11 PM
At 5 miles an hour.

exactly :lol:

I asked the speaker "Don't you agree that alcoholism, an addiction to a legal drug, has more violent side-effects (I had domestic violence, spouse abuse, alcohol poisoning, hangovers, organ damage, and rage in mind) than addiction to marijuana? (I had getting the munchies, being tired, writing good music in mind.)

His response was: "No, I don't. Next question."

Div
11-13-2007, 06:12 PM
You are a legal adult in the United States at age 18 as far as I'm aware of. You can VOTE FOR YOUR PRESIDENT, and can DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRY, but you can't have a beer?

Well, you can buy alcohol if you're in the military, so the dying for your country part doesnt really hold water.



-----





Oh and while we're lowering ages on things... :eyes:

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/harry_potter_and_the_order_of_the_phoenix/evanna_lynch/phoenix.jpg

powerslave_85
11-13-2007, 06:15 PM
Pervert.

JRA
11-13-2007, 06:45 PM
Oh and while we're lowering ages on things... :eyes:

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/harry_potter_and_the_order_of_the_phoenix/evanna_lynch/phoenix.jpg

No.

es156
11-13-2007, 07:16 PM
You don't have to smoke pot (I don't) in order to believe it should be legal (I do).

Yes, and as others have said, just because I feel it should be legal (for medicinal uses for example), does not mean I am a user. :tp:

OK, you two.

(Without starting a huge debate.....)

I can understand why the "kids" think it should be legal. But what are your reasons? And I am not looking for bogus medicinal uses either.

Div
11-13-2007, 07:27 PM
I think that sense alcohol and tobacco are legal, and theyre just as bad for you if not worse, that theres no legitimite reason to outlaw it. Also, only one sex of one species of the planet genus cannabis can produce THC, theres no reason to outlaw all varients of this plant, especially sense its far superior to most other industrial crops. Hell, our constitution was written on paper made from hemp.

ChildrenofSodom
11-13-2007, 07:52 PM
I think that sense alcohol and tobacco are legal, and theyre just as bad for you if not worse, that theres no legitimite reason to outlaw it. Also, only one sex of one species of the planet genus cannabis can produce THC, theres no reason to outlaw all varients of this plant, especially sense its far superior to most other industrial crops. Hell, our constitution was written on paper made from hemp.

The only person to die from marijuana over dose was some dude who ate a pound of raw hash.

ChildrenofSodom
11-13-2007, 07:59 PM
I can understand why the "kids" think it should be legal. But what are your reasons? And I am not looking for bogus medicinal uses either.

I personally would never smoke marijuana. For the same reason I dont drink or smoke, I really don't like the idea of altering my mind. I know medicine such as ibuprofen or whatever does alter my body chemically, but not on the same level as marijuana. I am not fond of the idea of losing control of certain bodily functions (my thoughts, my appetite, etc), but I believe that, in a controlled environment, people deserve the right to use marijuana for medicinal reasons, or for recreational/social reasons (just like alcohol.)

Just like I dont like being around drunk people, I dont think I would like being around someone on a high.

zgodt
11-14-2007, 04:33 AM
OK, you two.

(Without starting a huge debate.....)

I can understand why the "kids" think it should be legal. But what are your reasons? And I am not looking for bogus medicinal uses either.

To be brief:

1. Prohibition does more harm than good. It isn't effective at curbing abuse (in surveys, teenagers regularly report it's easier for them to buy pot than beer), and it creates an enforcement nightmare which diminishes people's right to privacy, encourages police abuses, and swells prisons with non-violent drug offenders.

2. Hemp is an extremely versatile and useful renewable resource. If its production were legal, it could be used to produce paper, clothing, and energy (to name a few) in a highly environmentally friendly way. In fact, Popular Science magazine predicted in the 1930s that it would become the nation's dominant cash crop -- inspiring timber interests and others to lobby for its being banned, leading to the paranoid anti-marijuana sentiment represented in media such as Reefer Madness, vestiges of which remain to this day.

JRA
11-14-2007, 05:54 AM
To be brief:

1. Prohibition does more harm than good. It isn't effective at curbing abuse (in surveys, teenagers regularly report it's easier for them to buy pot than beer), and it creates an enforcement nightmare which diminishes people's right to privacy, encourages police abuses, and swells prisons with non-violent drug offenders.



While I agree, I can imagine some idiot responding "LOL COKE AND HEROINE ARE ALSO PROHIBITED. SO DOES THT MEEN WE SHUD MAKE COKAINE AND HEROINE LEGL 2??/"

Fe Maiden
11-14-2007, 06:27 AM
OK, you two.

(Without starting a huge debate.....)

I can understand why the "kids" think it should be legal. But what are your reasons? And I am not looking for bogus medicinal uses either.Not all the medicinal uses are bogus! Ask the people who are on chemotherapy! And I am sorry, I did not intend to start a raging debate on the issue.

powerslave_85
11-14-2007, 06:31 AM
While I agree, I can imagine some idiot responding "LOL COKE AND HEROINE ARE ALSO PROHIBITED. SO DOES THT MEEN WE SHUD MAKE COKAINE AND HEROINE LEGL 2??/"Yes.

JRA
11-14-2007, 07:06 AM
Yes.

For natural selection purposes?

zgodt
11-14-2007, 07:21 AM
While I agree, I can imagine some idiot responding "LOL COKE AND HEROINE ARE ALSO PROHIBITED. SO DOES THT MEEN WE SHUD MAKE COKAINE AND HEROINE LEGL 2??/"

I believe so. Prohibition of cocaine and heroin does far more harm than good.

zgodt
11-14-2007, 07:30 AM
For natural selection purposes?

Why so flippant? Just because you may think a thing is bad, doesn't mean outlawing it will improve society. Take the recent findings on abortion that show that abortion rates in countries that outlaw abortion are no lower than they are in countries which offer legal abortion -- but that illegal abortions are far more damaging to public health.

The biggest reason we have hyper-concentrated forms of many illegal drugs (like crack cocaine) is that it makes it easier to smuggle. The same thing happened with alcohol prohibition in the 20s -- it's hard to sneak around with kegs of beer, so instead people drank 100 proof liquor in bottles that fit in your pocket. In prohibition, drinking rates declined mildly, but the harms of drinking (e.g., cirrhosis) went up. Not to mention the crime nightmare caused by rival gangs of bootleggers -- which has its corollary in the purveyors of any number of controlled substances in modern cities.

ChildrenofSodom
11-14-2007, 07:39 AM
2. Hemp is an extremely versatile and useful renewable resource. If its production were legal, it could be used to produce paper, clothing, and energy (to name a few) in a highly environmentally friendly way. In fact, Popular Science magazine predicted in the 1930s that it would become the nation's dominant cash crop -- inspiring timber interests and others to lobby for its being banned, leading to the paranoid anti-marijuana sentiment represented in media such as Reefer Madness, vestiges of which remain to this day.


One kid brought up during the debate that during the movement to ban marijuana, they would say things like "Mexicans are crazy, and marijuana is the weed that causes it." :eyes:

JRA
11-14-2007, 08:53 AM
Why so flippant? Just because you may think a thing is bad, doesn't mean outlawing it will improve society. Take the recent findings on abortion that show that abortion rates in countries that outlaw abortion are no lower than they are in countries which offer legal abortion -- but that illegal abortions are far more damaging to public health.

The biggest reason we have hyper-concentrated forms of many illegal drugs (like crack cocaine) is that it makes it easier to smuggle. The same thing happened with alcohol prohibition in the 20s -- it's hard to sneak around with kegs of beer, so instead people drank 100 proof liquor in bottles that fit in your pocket. In prohibition, drinking rates declined mildly, but the harms of drinking (e.g., cirrhosis) went up. Not to mention the crime nightmare caused by rival gangs of bootleggers -- which has its corollary in the purveyors of any number of controlled substances in modern cities.


I think you misinterpreted me. When I said "natural selection" it was a half sarcastic remark that implied all the stupid people would become addicted to drugs and then die, thus eliminating stupid people.

zgodt
11-14-2007, 09:04 AM
I think you misinterpreted me. When I said "natural selection" it was a half sarcastic remark that implied all the stupid people would become addicted to drugs and then die, thus eliminating stupid people.

I interpreted you correctly, but I thought the gag was a little dismissive of actual arguments for decriminalization. Thus my "why so flippant".

I feel :dorky:.

ADD
11-14-2007, 11:40 AM
I think you misinterpreted me. When I said "natural selection" it was a half sarcastic remark that implied all the stupid people would become addicted to drugs and then die, thus eliminating stupid people.

That's a mildy ironic statement considering that it would be pretty damn tough to die from marijuana use :cool:

ADD
11-14-2007, 11:45 AM
It's pretty much common knowledge that a big reason the government is not legalizing marijuana and other drugs is because they can't find a way to make money off it. It needs to become somehow taxable and set up as a business instituion that can be regulated just like any other business. There's plenty of unhealthy things the government is just fine supporting in the interest of our economy, so the 'health concern' stance doesn't hold much water.

zgodt
11-14-2007, 12:40 PM
It's pretty much common knowledge that a big reason the government is not legalizing marijuana and other drugs is because they can't find a way to make money off it. It needs to become somehow taxable and set up as a business instituion that can be regulated just like any other business. There's plenty of unhealthy things the government is just fine supporting in the interest of our economy, so the 'health concern' stance doesn't hold much water.
What? That's crazy. Banning marijuana makes absolutely no economic sense for the government. The one sure way to make sure the government can't tax drugs or otherwise profit from them is to make them illegal. Indeed, drug enforcement is extremely expensive. Making marijuana use legal would save the government billions even if they didn't tax it. But there's no reason they couldn't set up regulated sale and distribution of marijuana, and collect enormous tax revenues from it -- as is done for alcohol and tobacco. AND this would also make it harder for 12 year olds to buy it, since you'd have to show I.D. at the store to get it, instead of buying it from some asshole in a denim jacket on the playground.

Div
11-14-2007, 01:22 PM
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3170/1188172717725nk0.gif

Fe Maiden
11-14-2007, 01:33 PM
What? That's crazy. Banning marijuana makes absolutely no economic sense for the government. The one sure way to make sure the government can't tax drugs or otherwise profit from them is to make them illegal. Indeed, drug enforcement is extremely expensive. Making marijuana use legal would save the government billions even if they didn't tax it. But there's no reason they couldn't set up regulated sale and distribution of marijuana, and collect enormous tax revenues from it -- as is done for alcohol and tobacco. AND this would also make it harder for 12 year olds to buy it, since you'd have to show I.D. at the store to get it, instead of buying it from some asshole in a denim jacket on the playground.Yep!

JRA
11-14-2007, 01:39 PM
That's a mildy ironic statement considering that it would be pretty damn tough to die from marijuana use :cool:

Marijuana leads to acid, acid leads to coke, and coke leads to suffering. :evil:

Offtopic: Why do we have a Darth Maul smiley but not a yoda one?

ADD
11-14-2007, 02:04 PM
some asshole in a denim jacket on the playground.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :lol:

Yeah alright I see your point. So why haven't they legalized it?

ADD
11-14-2007, 02:06 PM
Marijuana leads to acid, acid leads to coke, and coke leads to suffering. :evil:



Well, looks like you got me there. Nicely done.

*goes off to do acid......then eventually coke.........then suffer*

JRA
11-14-2007, 02:45 PM
Well, looks like you got me there. Nicely done.

*goes off to do acid......then eventually coke.........then suffer*

Well for some cases Marijuana is the gateway drug, not everybody. By the way I wasn't arguing that Marijuana should be illegal, but I do understand why all the heavier drugs are.

Does anyone know how all these drugs came to be illegal in the first place?

SomewhereInTime72
11-14-2007, 03:48 PM
Well for some cases Marijuana is the gateway drug, not everybody. By the way I wasn't arguing that Marijuana should be illegal, but I do understand why all the heavier drugs are.

Does anyone know how all these drugs came to be illegal in the first place?

Someone high up probably had a bad trip.

Div
11-14-2007, 03:57 PM
Well for some cases Marijuana is the gateway drug, not everybody. By the way I wasn't arguing that Marijuana should be illegal, but I do understand why all the heavier drugs are.

Does anyone know how all these drugs came to be illegal in the first place?


People got "what you shouldnt do" and "what you shouldnt be allowed to do" mixed up.

zgodt
11-14-2007, 05:16 PM
Well for some cases Marijuana is the gateway drug, not everybody. By the way I wasn't arguing that Marijuana should be illegal, but I do understand why all the heavier drugs are.

Does anyone know how all these drugs came to be illegal in the first place?

For a synopsis of the history on marijuana:
http://www.nirvana-shop.com/untoldstory/hemp_5.html

Coke and heroin were both legal drugs in the early 20th century in the USA, but each appears to have been banned for public health reasons when it became clear that they were addictive.

ChildrenofSodom
11-14-2007, 05:24 PM
Coke and heroin were both legal drugs in the early 20th century in the USA, but each appears to have been banned for public health reasons when it became clear that they were addictive.

But not cigarettes.

JRA
11-14-2007, 05:33 PM
But not cigarettes.

It's much easier to die by cocaine overdose than it is nicotenne overdose. Is there even such a thing?

zgodt
11-14-2007, 05:37 PM
It's much easier to die by cocaine overdose than it is nicotenne overdose. Is there even such a thing?
Yeah, but far more people ultimately die from cigarettes than cocaine. And nicotine is more addictive than cocaine.


@ CoS... I never said the bannings made sense. Of course it's hypocritical to single out tobacco and alcohol as acceptable and marijuana and coca (or whatever) as unacceptable. Of course it is. There's certainly no medical or scientific basis for it, and no legitimate social basis for it either. It's completely irrational.

ChildrenofSodom
11-14-2007, 08:49 PM
Its just that: oh..'.cigarettes are so popular, who cares if they are dangerous...we can make a buck.'

zgodt
11-15-2007, 03:54 AM
Its just that: oh..'.cigarettes are so popular, who cares if they are dangerous...we can make a buck.'

Coke and heroin were really popular once, too (cocaine, of course, was even in Coca Cola originally), but neither of them had the sophisticated PR machinery of the tobacco industry to lie, deny, connive, and otherwise mislead the public and lobby for its continued right to fuck people up.

ChildrenofSodom
11-15-2007, 07:46 AM
Coke and heroin were really popular once, too (cocaine, of course, was even in Coca Cola originally), but neither of them had the sophisticated PR machinery of the tobacco industry to lie, deny, connive, and otherwise mislead the public and lobby for its continued right to fuck people up.

Exactly.