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Angelripper
07-21-2007, 05:20 AM
For all of you who've finished the book...

MASSIVE SPOILERS

-----------------------------------------------

Wasn't that the most amazing ending you've ever read? The way Snape redeemed himself, the meeting between Dumbledore and Harry at the end, and the final epilogue? True, the middle of the book seemed to bog down quite a lot with way too much dialogue and not enough action, but once the book dwindles down to the last few hundred pages, it is non stop action. I actually cried when Harry realized that he must sacrifice himself to kill Voldemort, and the incorporation of the Three Hallows added further depth to this most incredible story.

Thank you JK Rowling for the greatest books ever written.

DethMaiden
07-21-2007, 08:28 AM
Wait, so Harry dies?

SirLardsAlot
07-21-2007, 09:06 AM
http://machodance.ytmnd.com/

Angelripper
07-21-2007, 10:08 AM
Well, he does get 'killed' again. But through his blood (read Book 4), he is yet again able to survive the killing curse, and at the same time destroy the Horcrux within his body.

Div
07-21-2007, 11:15 AM
EPIK VIDEHO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vas-7a7is

ravenheart
07-21-2007, 06:18 PM
So is he dead or isn't he? The time when the rest of us, who ordinarily would have nothing against people liking something we don't, can stop hearing about it and having it rammed down our throats will be a glorious day.

Imagine being on the receiving end. Tell me something you don't like and I'll pollute every website, tv station and radio station with it for the next 15 years (which is will be once the last two films are done). See if you don't get sick of it.

"Greatest books ever written" my arse. Enjoyable they may very well be, and of course all the fans are entitled to enjoy them, but come on. Get a grip. They're kids books for Christ sake. Even if they're the greatest kids books ever written the very level of language required to be a kids book precludes them from being the best books of all time.

Being a fan of a series is one thing, but the hysteria and ridiculous obsession around Potter is insane. Anyone see footage of all the crazy idiots queued outside book stores dressed as wizards and shit? And I thought Star Wars nerds were bad!

ChildrenofSodom
07-21-2007, 06:36 PM
So is he dead or isn't he? The time when the rest of us, who ordinarily would have nothing against people liking something we don't, can stop hearing about it and having it rammed down our throats will be a glorious day.

Imagine being on the receiving end. Tell me something you don't like and I'll pollute every website, tv station and radio station with it for the next 15 years (which is will be once the last two films are done). See if you don't get sick of it.

"Greatest books ever written" my arse. Enjoyable they may very well be, and of course all the fans are entitled to enjoy them, but come on. Get a grip. They're kids books for Christ sake. Even if they're the greatest kids books ever written the very level of language required to be a kids book precludes them from being the best books of all time.

Being a fan of a series is one thing, but the hysteria and ridiculous obsession around Potter is insane. Anyone see footage of all the crazy idiots queued outside book stores dressed as wizards and shit? And I thought Star Wars nerds were bad!
:party:

FUCKING THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! At least someone has some sense here. I am getting flamed (elsewhere) that I am just against these books because of some vendetta against the concept of conformity. The books may be good, but they just as you said: kids books. I think every teenager in the land is sucked into these books, and even adults like them, and the result is that no one wants to step back and say: why did I just stand in line for 4 hours to buy a book that will still be there tomorrow? Why am I dressed up like a wizard (or Jack Sparrow, samething)? American society's collective memory is so fucking short..we chastised the nerds for dressing up like D&D characters, or the Star Wars nerds for going to conventions in costume...Yet we repeat ourselves 20-30 years later.

Div
07-21-2007, 07:21 PM
Yea, fuck anyone whos a fanatic, i mean they should just fucking go to hell for liking something and wanting to express it especially all those douchebags who walk around in biker vests with band patches all over the place. they should just get a fucking life! and especially when theyre on tv, cause ill be DAMNED if anyone puts something on tv that annoys me!



:tp:

JRA
07-21-2007, 07:23 PM
Yea, fuck anyone whos a fanatic, i mean they should just fucking go to hell for liking something and wanting to express it especially all those douchebags who walk around in biker vests with band patches all over the place. they should just get a fucking life! and especially when theyre on tv, cause ill be DAMNED if anyone puts something on tv that annoys me!



:tp:

:lol:

DethMaiden
07-21-2007, 07:24 PM
Yea, fuck anyone whos a fanatic, i mean they should just fucking go to hell for liking something and wanting to express it especially all those douchebags who walk around in biker vests with band patches all over the place. they should just get a fucking life! and especially when theyre on tv, cause ill be DAMNED if anyone puts something on tv that annoys me!



:tp:

:lol: :fist:

JRA
07-21-2007, 07:35 PM
So, quick question...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YykwBCIIUxs

Did that actually happen?

zgodt
07-21-2007, 10:40 PM
For all of you who've finished the book...

MASSIVE SPOILERS

-----------------------------------------------

Wasn't that the most amazing ending you've ever read? The way Snape redeemed himself, the meeting between Dumbledore and Harry at the end, and the final epilogue? True, the middle of the book seemed to bog down quite a lot with way too much dialogue and not enough action, but once the book dwindles down to the last few hundred pages, it is non stop action. I actually cried when Harry realized that he must sacrifice himself to kill Voldemort, and the incorporation of the Three Hallows added further depth to this most incredible story.

Thank you JK Rowling for the greatest books ever written.
Additional spoilers pending...

****

It was fantastic. I don't think it ever got bogged down -- all though all the aimless tromping through the woods was driving me a little crazy. (As in: I'm already 350 pages in and they still haven't achieved a damn thing -- how is JK planning to wrap all this up?)

I cried at that part too. And before that, when Lestrange's knife found its mark. I'm not too much of a pussy to admit it.

But the whole "fuck you Tom Riddle, I am the master of the Elder Wand" part -- fucking A. :eek: :rocker:

zgodt
07-21-2007, 10:57 PM
Imagine being on the receiving end. Tell me something you don't like and I'll pollute every website, tv station and radio station with it for the next 15 years (which is will be once the last two films are done). See if you don't get sick of it.
What makes you think we don't? I'm pretty sick of hearing about a whole boatload of shallow media culture bullshit that's been going on for more than 15 years and shows no signs of stopping. Meanwhile, there's this sliver of cultural activity which encourages both imagination and literacy among a surprisingly large and fervent segment of the population. If you aren't hooked yourself, fine. But why begrudge the others?

"Greatest books ever written" my arse. Enjoyable they may very well be, and of course all the fans are entitled to enjoy them, but come on. Get a grip. They're kids books for Christ sake. Even if they're the greatest kids books ever written the very level of language required to be a kids book precludes them from being the best books of all time.
A couple of things. It's fair to say they aren't the greatest books ever written, probably not even the greatest fantasy books ever written. They do have certain limitations. The characterization can be a little ham-handed at times. And while the writing is crisp and often vivid, Rowling doesn't have the same poetic way with language that we find with, say, Ursula K. Leguin. But in many senses the books are masterfully made. She can craft an impeccable mystery plot, both within each book and over the continuing arc of seven interlinked books. And she always manages to hit you with thrilling surprises that don't feel contrived because you find she planted the seeds 5 chapters ago -- or in some cases, 5 books ago. No mean feat, that. Beyond which, she does embody some quite profound and genuinely engaging themes in very accessible language and storylines. She's not just some hack who got lucky to hit it big -- she knows what she's doing.

Beyond all that, it's absurd to ridicule them on the basis that they are "just kid's books." Some of the greatest masterpieces of English literature have been written as children's books. (See Lewis Carroll.)

zgodt
07-21-2007, 10:58 PM
So, quick question...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YykwBCIIUxs

Did that actually happen?

More than once.

JRA
07-22-2007, 05:13 AM
More than once.

:eek:

Angelripper
07-22-2007, 06:42 AM
So is he dead or isn't he? The time when the rest of us, who ordinarily would have nothing against people liking something we don't, can stop hearing about it and having it rammed down our throats will be a glorious day.
Rammed down your throat? This is not gay porn, this is Harry Potter. Harry Potter = Cultural Phenomenon. Harry Potter = The new Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings. The fact that the matter is, the books have become one of the highest selling objects of all time - and this is not due to the fact that the books suck. Children nowadays have precious little to read with the boom of the internet. The average teenager in the USA would spend more time reading internet blogs and news articles than reading a book - me included. But the fact is, Harry Potter has encouraged us to read, because it is that damn good. And no matter how childish you think the writing is, ultimately it succeeds in creating a new world, where our imaginations can run free and wild, a world in which we feel empathy towards every character, and a world in which we wish to be a part of, if only for just one day. Childish my ass - these books contain incredibly deep themes, and more than that, they help children around the world enjoy a bit of literature. Can William Shakespeare do that?

Imagine being on the receiving end. Tell me something you don't like and I'll pollute every website, tv station and radio station with it for the next 15 years (which is will be once the last two films are done). See if you don't get sick of it.
Again, this not gay porn. You are not on the receiving end of any wang. This is by far and away the most selfish comment to make - you dislike Harry Potter so you'll go out of your way to make us miserable for your taste in books? A wee bit CHILDISH don't you think?

"Greatest books ever written" my arse. Enjoyable they may very well be, and of course all the fans are entitled to enjoy them, but come on. Get a grip. They're kids books for Christ sake. Even if they're the greatest kids books ever written the very level of language required to be a kids book precludes them from being the best books of all time.
Again, what does it matter which genre they're in? Kids, fantasy, whatever genre you wish to put it in - people of all ages can enjoy it. I enjoyed it when I was a titchy ten year old, I enjoyed it when I was a hormonal fifteen year old, and now on the brink of adulthood, I just happen to enjoy each book more and more. You fail to realize that just because Harry Potter was a child once, doesn't mean that the writing quality is for itty bitty kids. zgodt is older than Dumbledore himself and he happens to enjoy the books.

Being a fan of a series is one thing, but the hysteria and ridiculous obsession around Potter is insane. Anyone see footage of all the crazy idiots queued outside book stores dressed as wizards and shit? And I thought Star Wars nerds were bad!
Sometimes ridiculous obsession is bad for you. But this is the complete opposite; Harry Potter obsession is just about the healthiest obsession you can find - we all LOVE the books, and we LOVE being transported to a land where the magical can occur, where reality becomes mixed with our wildest dreams. Anyone see footage of all the crazy idiots queued outside Metal Concerts dressed as lumps of hideous shit? And I thought Harry Potter geeks like me were bad!

Angelripper
07-22-2007, 06:43 AM
Additional spoilers pending...

****

It was fantastic. I don't think it ever got bogged down -- all though all the aimless tromping through the woods was driving me a little crazy. (As in: I'm already 350 pages in and they still haven't achieved a damn thing -- how is JK planning to wrap all this up?)

I cried at that part too. And before that, when Lestrange's knife found its mark. I'm not too much of a pussy to admit it.

But the whole "fuck you Tom Riddle, I am the master of the Elder Wand" part -- fucking A. :eek: :rocker:
That final scene was badass. I hope Daniel Radcliffe can pull it off in the movie.

zgodt
07-22-2007, 10:18 AM
zgodt is older than Dumbledore himself and he happens to enjoy the books.

:lol:

zgodt
07-22-2007, 10:19 AM
That final scene was badass. I hope Daniel Radcliffe can pull it off in the movie.

His acting has come a long way. He'll do fine. :)

As long as they don't water it down too much in the script, as they did Dumbledore's bit in the last battle of Order of the Phoenix...

ChildrenofSodom
07-22-2007, 02:27 PM
To each his own I suppose.


Even if you do like the books, you have to admit lining up at midnight is pretty nerdy. I think there is a difference between.."Hey these books are pretty good..I cant wait for the next one" and "OMFG, THE NEW HARRY POTTER IS COMING OUT!! WHERES MY BROOMSTICK!"

To some extent, I agree that they are great books because they allow kids to escape their own world and live in a fantasy world, but to say that is a perfectly healthy obsession is a little far off. Some kids MAY be able to seperate fantasy from reality, but dont you see how corrosive it could be to others?

I will quite pissing on Harry Potter, but I still find it peculiar since EVERYONE likes the book, no one is allowed to dislike it. If I like a band that no one else likes, I catch shit for it. If there is something else in the media (Eragon, Da Vinci Code) that a smaller percentage of the population enjoys, everyone else is bitching and complaining. Its just funny how just because the collective public opinion of this book is positive, any dissenters are shit on. Maybe I will give these books another try, maybe not.

I liked the few movies I have seen from this series, maybe that will motivate me to read the books. But I hope people here can step back in a few years and laugh at themselves over this fanatacism.

To each his own. I prefer Dragonlance myself.

Yea, fuck anyone whos a fanatic, i mean they should just fucking go to hell for liking something and wanting to express it especially all those douchebags who walk around in biker vests with band patches all over the place. they should just get a fucking life! and especially when theyre on tv, cause ill be DAMNED if anyone puts something on tv that annoys me!
:tp:

Touche Mike, but there is a difference between "Hey I like this book/movie/band, how about you?" and "HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT US, WE ALL LOVE THIS BOOK/MOVIE/BAND!!!!!!! YAY!!!"

What if everyone was dancing around praising the new Transformers movie, as the best movie ever made..better than the cartoon series in every aspect. I bet you would be pissed, right? In the end, its a matter of personal preference. If everyone saw it that way, I wouldnt be posting in this thread. But there is a sense that because SO many people like the book, and SO many people are willing to stand outside at midnight in costume, and SO many media outlets are focusing on it instead of the war, the economy, [insert anything more imporant to our lives than a kids book], that EVERYONE, even non fans, have to hear about it, read about it, look into it. It is very hard to express how it feels to be someone that doesnt like something, when EVERYONE else does. I am not trying to sound selfish or big-headed, or a rebel...its just a really weird situation. The collective publics opinion versus the individuals personal preference.

Div
07-22-2007, 03:52 PM
To each his own I suppose.


Even if you do like the books, you have to admit lining up at midnight is pretty nerdy. I think there is a difference between.."Hey these books are pretty good..I cant wait for the next one" and "OMFG, THE NEW HARRY POTTER IS COMING OUT!! WHERES MY BROOMSTICK!"

To some extent, I agree that they are great books because they allow kids to escape their own world and live in a fantasy world, but to say that is a perfectly healthy obsession is a little far off. Some kids MAY be able to seperate fantasy from reality, but dont you see how corrosive it could be to others?

I will quite pissing on Harry Potter, but I still find it peculiar since EVERYONE likes the book, no one is allowed to dislike it. If I like a band that no one else likes, I catch shit for it. If there is something else in the media (Eragon, Da Vinci Code) that a smaller percentage of the population enjoys, everyone else is bitching and complaining. Its just funny how just because the collective public opinion of this book is positive, any dissenters are shit on. Maybe I will give these books another try, maybe not.

I liked the few movies I have seen from this series, maybe that will motivate me to read the books. But I hope people here can step back in a few years and laugh at themselves over this fanatacism.

To each his own. I prefer Dragonlance myself.



Touche Mike, but there is a difference between "Hey I like this book/movie/band, how about you?" and "HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT US, WE ALL LOVE THIS BOOK/MOVIE/BAND!!!!!!! YAY!!!"

What if everyone was dancing around praising the new Transformers movie, as the best movie ever made..better than the cartoon series in every aspect. I bet you would be pissed, right? In the end, its a matter of personal preference. If everyone saw it that way, I wouldnt be posting in this thread. But there is a sense that because SO many people like the book, and SO many people are willing to stand outside at midnight in costume, and SO many media outlets are focusing on it instead of the war, the economy, [insert anything more imporant to our lives than a kids book], that EVERYONE, even non fans, have to hear about it, read about it, look into it. It is very hard to express how it feels to be someone that doesnt like something, when EVERYONE else does. I am not trying to sound selfish or big-headed, or a rebel...its just a really weird situation. The collective publics opinion versus the individuals personal preference.



Well Transformers was blasphemy, the Potter fans actually got good movies made of their franchise. Besides, "midnight madness" is fun, like when the 360 came out, how many times do you get to do something like that? And nowhere is it written that the media must focus on the war all the time, especially sense theres not much to report about it and noone really wants to hear about it anymore.

What I admire about the books is not the book itself, but how the author was able to create such a huge cult following, and if you can pull that off you deserve every bit of your fame.

ravenheart
07-22-2007, 04:19 PM
Rammed down your throat? This is not gay porn, this is Harry Potter. Harry Potter = Cultural Phenomenon. Harry Potter = The new Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings. The fact that the matter is, the books have become one of the highest selling objects of all time - and this is not due to the fact that the books suck. Children nowadays have precious little to read with the boom of the internet. The average teenager in the USA would spend more time reading internet blogs and news articles than reading a book - me included. But the fact is, Harry Potter has encouraged us to read, because it is that damn good. And no matter how childish you think the writing is, ultimately it succeeds in creating a new world, where our imaginations can run free and wild, a world in which we feel empathy towards every character, and a world in which we wish to be a part of, if only for just one day. Childish my ass - these books contain incredibly deep themes, and more than that, they help children around the world enjoy a bit of literature. Can William Shakespeare do that?


Again, this not gay porn. You are not on the receiving end of any wang. This is by far and away the most selfish comment to make - you dislike Harry Potter so you'll go out of your way to make us miserable for your taste in books? A wee bit CHILDISH don't you think?


Again, what does it matter which genre they're in? Kids, fantasy, whatever genre you wish to put it in - people of all ages can enjoy it. I enjoyed it when I was a titchy ten year old, I enjoyed it when I was a hormonal fifteen year old, and now on the brink of adulthood, I just happen to enjoy each book more and more. You fail to realize that just because Harry Potter was a child once, doesn't mean that the writing quality is for itty bitty kids. zgodt is older than Dumbledore himself and he happens to enjoy the books.


Sometimes ridiculous obsession is bad for you. But this is the complete opposite; Harry Potter obsession is just about the healthiest obsession you can find - we all LOVE the books, and we LOVE being transported to a land where the magical can occur, where reality becomes mixed with our wildest dreams. Anyone see footage of all the crazy idiots queued outside Metal Concerts dressed as lumps of hideous shit? And I thought Harry Potter geeks like me were bad!

Wow. What an absolutely magnifcent display of totally NOT READING A WORD I SAID. Well done. Good to see the books have furthered your literacy.

I'm not ridiculing them because they're kids books. It's OK to be a kids book. In fact, I didn't ridicule them at all. The point I made, rather clearly, is that the fact that are kids books means that the language has to, by definition, be too simple for them to be the greatest books ever written, as you claimed. It just cannot be. They can be the greatest kids books ever written, but they cannot be the greatest of all books. Do you understand now?

Let's see... You say I'm trying to make you miserable because you like Potter? I said, more than once, I could care less if people like Potter. I already said people are entitled to enjoy the books. The reason I'm glad the whole thing is over is because I'm tired of hearing about it. Your comment is completely the wrong way around. Just because you and all the others LIKE Potter, why does that mean I have to keep hearing about it at every turn? As I said, it will be 15 years or so by the time the final movie comes out. 15 years of hearing about the same damn thing.

Again, as I said (I don't like repeating myself, I wish you'd understood the first time around), imagine something you don't like, movie, book, band, whatever, and try to tell me that if it were on every website, TV station and radio show, and everyone you knew were always talking about it, for 15 years you wouldn't be sick of it as well. I bet you can't do it without lying through your teeth.

You could say "just ignore it". Which is an admirable suggestion. But since everyone reads the damn things, and sees the movies, and the newspapers are full of it etc, there is no ignoring it. When a new book or movie comes out not a day goes by where I can go into work and not hear someone talking about Potter.

Lastly, if I were you, I'd be desperately worried that you pulled references to gay porn out of very average phrases on several occasions. Very worried indeed.

Anyone see footage of all the crazy idiots queued outside Metal Concerts dressed as lumps of hideous shit?

Yep, and they look like retards as well. Ever see a Hammerfall fan? Hilarious!

ravenheart
07-22-2007, 04:28 PM
What makes you think we don't? I'm pretty sick of hearing about a whole boatload of shallow media culture bullshit that's been going on for more than 15 years and shows no signs of stopping. Meanwhile, there's this sliver of cultural activity which encourages both imagination and literacy among a surprisingly large and fervent segment of the population. If you aren't hooked yourself, fine.

Yes, but it's not the SAME shallow media culture bullshit. It's different stuff each time and each is gone again in 15 minutes.

But why begrudge the others?

Erm, I'm not. Read it again:

Enjoyable they may very well be, and of course all the fans are entitled to enjoy them

I could care less that a ton of people like a series of books I don't. I don't read Andy McNab books either, but loads of people do.

The point is, I don't want everyone elses obsession thrown at me for 15 years.

Yea, fuck anyone whos a fanatic, i mean they should just fucking go to hell for liking something and wanting to express it especially all those douchebags who walk around in biker vests with band patches all over the place. they should just get a fucking life! and especially when theyre on tv, cause ill be DAMNED if anyone puts something on tv that annoys me!

Way to miss the point. Good job. :wallbang:

It's funny that when someone says something about a popular subject that goes against the majority opinion, even when it openly acknowledges their right to like what they like and so on and so forth, it's the majority who come along and say "why can't you accept that people like something you don't". That's exactly what I am doing, and so far it's been a string of Potter fans who have failed to accept that the negative opinion of the whole thing is equally as valid or to understand that someone who isn't a Potter fan (God forbid) might be tired of hearing about it.

zgodt
07-22-2007, 04:52 PM
Even if you do like the books, you have to admit lining up at midnight is pretty nerdy. I think there is a difference between.."Hey these books are pretty good..I cant wait for the next one" and "OMFG, THE NEW HARRY POTTER IS COMING OUT!! WHERES MY BROOMSTICK!"
I went to the local independent bookstore at midnight to get my pre-reserved copy. There was a jazz band playing, and I got to have some cookies and a glass of wine and browse poetry books while I waited. I guess that might be a little nerdy -- but then, any of us who spend time posting on an internet bulletin board at a site called metalsetlists.com should think twice before slinging "nerd" accusations at anybody else.
To some extent, I agree that they are great books because they allow kids to escape their own world and live in a fantasy world, but to say that is a perfectly healthy obsession is a little far off. Some kids MAY be able to seperate fantasy from reality, but dont you see how corrosive it could be to others?
Utter bilge. Do you even really believe that shit? You sound like the PMRC circa 1985.

Besides, if they were pure escapist fantasy the books would suck. But that's not what they are. Really good fantasy is not a way to get away from real life, it's a way of looking at real life through a different lens. Formulaic escapist fantasy lit is easy enough to find. Thank god that's not what J.K. Rowling gives us.
I will quite pissing on Harry Potter, but I still find it peculiar since EVERYONE likes the book, no one is allowed to dislike it. If I like a band that no one else likes, I catch shit for it. If there is something else in the media (Eragon, Da Vinci Code) that a smaller percentage of the population enjoys, everyone else is bitching and complaining. Its just funny how just because the collective public opinion of this book is positive, any dissenters are shit on. Maybe I will give these books another try, maybe not.
I don't see dissenters getting shit on. It seems to me that making fun of Harry Potter is almost as popular as reading Harry Potter. And that's fine. Cynics and skeptics abound no matter what phenomena you're dealing with. Who ever said everyone likes that book? And who ever said you aren't allowed to dislike it?
there is a difference between "Hey I like this book/movie/band, how about you?" and "HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT US, WE ALL LOVE THIS BOOK/MOVIE/BAND!!!!!!! YAY!!!"
I haven't seen roving bands of costumed HP fanatics shouting at muggles in the streets or anything. :confused:
What if everyone was dancing around praising the new Transformers movie, as the best movie ever made..better than the cartoon series in every aspect. I bet you would be pissed, right? In the end, its a matter of personal preference. If everyone saw it that way, I wouldnt be posting in this thread. But there is a sense that because SO many people like the book, and SO many people are willing to stand outside at midnight in costume, and SO many media outlets are focusing on it instead of the war, the economy, [insert anything more imporant to our lives than a kids book], that EVERYONE, even non fans, have to hear about it, read about it, look into it. It is very hard to express how it feels to be someone that doesnt like something, when EVERYONE else does. I am not trying to sound selfish or big-headed, or a rebel...its just a really weird situation. The collective publics opinion versus the individuals personal preference.
For one thing, the new Transformers movie would have to be a hell of a lot better than it is for anything like that to happen. It's not some fluke that Harry Potter is so popular. It's a finely crafted story that's widely accessible and resonates with people. That's pretty rare. Meanwhile, Transformers is formulaic nostalgic action fluff.

And come on. Media outlets focusing on HP instead of the war and the economy? Please. For a couple of days they made a little room to talk about Harry Potter between reports on the war and the economy, etc. Which is all to the good. It's significant. It's a literary phenomenon. And it's important for "the media" to delve sometimes into things that engage people's imagination. Pretending that imaginary things are not important does nothing but diminish people and their world.

zgodt
07-22-2007, 05:03 PM
Yes, but it's not the SAME shallow media culture bullshit. It's different stuff each time and each is gone again in 15 minutes.
Is it? So is NFL football's 15 minutes almost up? How about Bud Light's 15 minutes? And when will Rush Limbaugh's 15 minutes expire, or Ann Coulter's, or Quentin Tarantino's?
The point is, I don't want everyone elses obsession thrown at me for 15 years.
Sure, because after all what have the past ten years been except one big universal conversation about Harry Potter all the time? :eyes:

Dude, I think you can probably survive seeing it in scattered news reports and magazine covers for a couple of weeks here and there. Especially when the alternative is the latest update about Paris Hilton.

Div
07-22-2007, 05:47 PM
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4681/rickrollya3.gif

overkiller
07-22-2007, 07:22 PM
If you don't like Harry Potter, then don't read the books, hello? Don't pretend like the cultural sensation is doing any sort of real harm to your stupid life. You just want something popular to whine about.

overkiller
07-22-2007, 07:24 PM
What makes you think we don't? I'm pretty sick of hearing about a whole boatload of shallow media culture bullshit that's been going on for more than 15 years and shows no signs of stopping. Meanwhile, there's this sliver of cultural activity which encourages both imagination and literacy among a surprisingly large and fervent segment of the population. If you aren't hooked yourself, fine. But why begrudge the others?


And, I totally agree with this. :2cents:

JRA
07-22-2007, 07:33 PM
Overkiller speaketh the truth.

And I must add (not to change the subject) that I find it mildly ironic that two people in this thread who love Harry potter also think Dio is cheesy. :D :eyes:

zgodt
07-22-2007, 08:13 PM
Overkiller speaketh the truth.

And I must add (not to change the subject) that I find it mildly ironic that two people in this thread who love Harry potter also think Dio is cheesy. :D :eyes:

Dio hasn't got a fraction of the talent J.K. Rowling has. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she can sing better than Dio too. ;)

powerslave_85
07-22-2007, 08:33 PM
Hmm. I thought for sure that out of Ron, Harry, and Hermoine, she would kill off at least one of them.

ChildrenofSodom
07-22-2007, 08:38 PM
Fine I cant really find a good reason to bitch about Harry Potter. Sorry for my over-reaction.

Whatever. Go listen to metal, yah nerds.

NP:

Rain of a Thousand Flames by Rhapsody of Fire

zgodt
07-23-2007, 08:20 PM
Hmm. I thought for sure that out of Ron, Harry, and Hermoine, she would kill off at least one of them.
She tortured one, and sort of momentarily killed another one... does that count for anything?

tmactaggart
07-24-2007, 09:22 AM
meh I thought the book was good but that epilogue 19 years after thing was shite and sorta ruined the book for me. She shoulda left it out altogether or made it properly detailed cause it missed out so much. Also I was a little dissapointed after hearing all this stuff about 2 major characters dying that only a bunch of sidekicks died + snape. I wanted one of the big 3 to die but I guess not....the ending was a little too happy also but I guess its a childs book so it would be pretty bad if Harry did end up dying. ah well...

DreamEvil001
07-25-2007, 05:30 PM
meh I thought the book was good but that epilogue 19 years after thing was shite and sorta ruined the book for me. She shoulda left it out altogether or made it properly detailed cause it missed out so much. Also I was a little dissapointed after hearing all this stuff about 2 major characters dying that only a bunch of sidekicks died + snape. I wanted one of the big 3 to die but I guess not....the ending was a little too happy also but I guess its a childs book so it would be pretty bad if Harry did end up dying. ah well...

that epilogue was shit, what was she thinking? it only really got good in the last 250 pages or so, and it was really predictable. I kept waiting for the shock. two different people I talked to after the 6th book came out predicted the whole snape loves lily and is killing dumbledore on his orders deal. and I didn't really understand something, so snape killed dumbledore because he was going to die anyway and it would be the perfect cover for snape, but then what did he do with his perfect cover? snape never actually used his cover for good and betray voldemort. in fact all he did in the book was cut off george's ear and then die. what was the point of the undercover deal?

iggyb387
07-25-2007, 06:11 PM
Hmm. I thought for sure that out of Ron, Harry, and Hermoine, she would kill off at least one of them.

Yeah. I was a little dissapointed by the Deaths in the book. Aside from Snape (whose death didn't really feel like a "killing off" as did those of Black and Dumbledore), none of the characters killed off were that important. Arguably, Lupin was a major character in 3 but after a while just faded out of existence basically. I was hoping for a character of at least Hagrid-level prominence, if not Ron/Hermoine. Rowling really went easy on the deaths IMO.

zgodt
07-25-2007, 07:40 PM
This is not a complaint, but an honest question: what's with the major-character bloodlust? In what way would killing off Hagrid or Hermione have made the outcome better?


@ DreamEvil001: you raise a good question. What real use was Snape as a spy? Offhand I can't think of much "actionable intelligence" that he was able to pass off to Dumbledore or the Order.... Although now that I think of it, he did become headmaster after Dumbledore died, right? And Dumbledore had asked him, in just such a scenario, to use his position to protect the students. So maybe the use was just that he was able to keep the Death Eaters from actually killing off students left and right at Hogwarts?

ChildrenofSodom
07-25-2007, 07:47 PM
I have a question: why did Urthstripe have to jump off Salamandastron WITH Feragho? I mean, Feragho was much smaller, and already hurt...wouldn't it have been easier for Urthstripe to pick him up and throw him off, or even push him down? I guess it worked out, because Brian Jacques always puts the Bloodwrath into his badger stories, and it sorta made way for Urthwyte's ascension to the throne, but still.......I cried during that scene....

zgodt
07-25-2007, 07:49 PM
I have a question: why did Urthstripe have to jump off Salamandastron WITH Feragho? I mean, Feragho was much smaller, and already hurt...wouldn't it have been easier for Urthstripe to pick him up and throw him off, or even push him down? I guess it worked out, because Brian Jacques always puts the Bloodwrath into his badger stories, and it sorta made way for Urthwyte's ascension to the throne, but still.......I cried during that scene....

Is this genuine Redwall angst, or are you just fucking around with funny sounding names? :)

ChildrenofSodom
07-25-2007, 07:52 PM
Is this genuine Redwall angst, or are you just fucking around with funny sounding names? :)

That was a genuine question, but I just brought it up because I have no idea what you guys are talking about (in relation to Harry Potter) and I wanted to be part of the conversation.

You a Redwall fan? Its the only series (besides Narnia) that I have read the whole series (except the newest 2 or 3, but by the time I finished the series, those werent out yet.)

zgodt
07-25-2007, 07:58 PM
That was a genuine question, but I just brought it up because I have no idea what you guys are talking about (in relation to Harry Potter) and I wanted to be part of the conversation.

You a Redwall fan? Its the only series (besides Narnia) that I have read the whole series (except the newest 2 or 3, but by the time I finished the series, those werent out yet.)

Never read any Redwall. I think I might have seen about 5 minutes of a cartoon version of Redwall once. But I've browsed the Fantasy section of the bookstore enough to recognize the name Brian Jacques.

So what's with Redwall? Is it really good? Is it basically targeted to a juvenile audience (as it appears to be) or is it more sophisticated than it appears?

ChildrenofSodom
07-25-2007, 08:06 PM
Never read any Redwall. I think I might have seen about 5 minutes of a cartoon version of Redwall once. But I've browsed the Fantasy section of the bookstore enough to recognize the name Brian Jacques.

So what's with Redwall? Is it really good? Is it basically targeted to a juvenile audience (as it appears to be) or is it more sophisticated than it appears?

I like the story better than Harry Potter. The characters are animals, but there is a lot of diversity within the cast. The books have alot of plot to them, and all the books are different (though loosely chronological, but not in order.) They are just all around entertaining books. Really helped my reading level when I was in late elementary, early junior high...due to the use of 'non-American' words.

iggyb387
07-25-2007, 08:10 PM
This is not a complaint, but an honest question: what's with the major-character bloodlust? In what way would killing off Hagrid or Hermione have made the outcome better?


I guess I'm just a sadist, that's all. :eyes:

I guess I just wanted to see if Rowling would do it. Dumbledore's death was pretty major in the 6th, as was Black's in the 5th. I was expecting for Rowling to outdo herself again. Perhaps it wouldn't improve the outcome, but a more important death could have been a great plot twist, or at least book spoiler.

powerslave_85
07-25-2007, 08:17 PM
This is not a complaint, but an honest question: what's with the major-character bloodlust? In what way would killing off Hagrid or Hermione have made the outcome better?I honestly don't give a shit either way, I was just surprised that she didn't kill off one of the main characters. I always kind of thought that Ron seemed like the kind of character that would end sacrificing himself for Harry at the end of it all, but then again I only read the first 4 books.

Also, with Harry, Ron, and Hermione alive, I have a harder time believing Rowling when she says that she'll never write another Potter book.

SomewhereInTime72
07-25-2007, 08:22 PM
The plot twists in this one weren't even plot twists, they were just pretty much exactly how I guessed it would turn out. I don't know why I really like this series, it's been pretty predictable.

Div
07-25-2007, 08:40 PM
That was a genuine question, but I just brought it up because I have no idea what you guys are talking about (in relation to Harry Potter) and I wanted to be part of the conversation.

You a Redwall fan? Its the only series (besides Narnia) that I have read the whole series (except the newest 2 or 3, but by the time I finished the series, those werent out yet.)



redwall is just lotr except all the characters are mice with little swords and armors. something you'd expect from japan.

DreamEvil001
07-25-2007, 10:14 PM
I like the story better than Harry Potter. The characters are animals, but there is a lot of diversity within the cast. The books have alot of plot to them, and all the books are different (though loosely chronological, but not in order.) They are just all around entertaining books. Really helped my reading level when I was in late elementary, early junior high...due to the use of 'non-American' words.

I read all the redwall books through taggerkung, I don't know how many books came out after that, but I just started to realize they are all basically the same story, with slightly different casts and locations, but all the characters are essentially the same types with different names. Not that they are bad- I really enjoyed them for a while, but they definitely have an age limit that harry potter seems to break. and I don't know why urthstripe jumped with feragho, that part always bothered me, as did luke going down with the ship

DreamEvil001
07-25-2007, 10:17 PM
@ DreamEvil001: you raise a good question. What real use was Snape as a spy? Offhand I can't think of much "actionable intelligence" that he was able to pass off to Dumbledore or the Order.... Although now that I think of it, he did become headmaster after Dumbledore died, right? And Dumbledore had asked him, in just such a scenario, to use his position to protect the students. So maybe the use was just that he was able to keep the Death Eaters from actually killing off students left and right at Hogwarts?

that makes sense, but he didn't prevent the teacher from dying or the students from being tortured

ChildrenofSodom
07-25-2007, 10:23 PM
I think mice, badgers, otters, and hedgehogs fighting weasles, foxes, and toads with swords, shields, arrows, and slings is alot cooler than a little orphan boy who goes to wizard school.

zgodt
07-26-2007, 08:28 AM
I think mice, badgers, otters, and hedgehogs fighting weasles, foxes, and toads with swords, shields, arrows, and slings is alot cooler than a little orphan boy who goes to wizard school.

Fair enough. I have nothing against anthropomorphic animals going at it. One of my favorite books of all time is Watership Down.

But here's the thing I love about Harry Potter. In Rowling's world, magic is everywhere around us, but we don't see it, either because we're too wrapped up in bullshit to notice, or because we haven't learned how to look properly. To me this is the fundamental truth of Harry Potter -- that the world is full of wonderful discoveries that can empower us if we can learn how to see.

zgodt
07-26-2007, 08:38 AM
The plot twists in this one weren't even plot twists, they were just pretty much exactly how I guessed it would turn out. I don't know why I really like this series, it's been pretty predictable.

Really? I was surprised by the endings of every book 1-4, and although I did figure Snape's murder of Dumbledore as having been pre-arranged, I didn't foresee a lot of other things in the last book. (For example: Harry having to sacrifice himself to Voldemort, and then surviving the sacrifice; that the trio would have to break into the Ministry, Gringott's, and Hogwarts for horcruxes; that there would be this whole alternative quest for some badass wand; that one of the Weasley twins would die; that the blue eye in the mirror would turn out to be Aberforth; that yanking away Draco's wand at the Malfoy house would make him master of the Elder Wand even though he'd never touched it; that Xenophilius would sell them out to the Death Eaters; etc.)

DethMaiden
07-26-2007, 09:43 AM
But here's the thing I love about Harry Potter. In Rowling's world, magic is everywhere around us, but we don't see it, either because we're too wrapped up in bullshit to notice, or because we haven't learned how to look properly. To me this is the fundamental truth of Harry Potter -- that the world is full of wonderful discoveries that can empower us if we can learn how to see.

I think you've bashed Terry Brooks on here before for his Shannara stuff, but I implore you to read his Word and Void trilogy. It takes that sort of concept to a much higher level, and it's written for adults. His seamless fusion of a fantasy world and modern-day planet Earth truly amazes me. They aren't super-tough or long reads, I highly recommend you check them out.

DethMaiden
07-26-2007, 09:48 AM
Summary:

The constant battle between the Word and the Void has raged for millennia, one side never able to permanently tip the balance in its favor over the other. It is an invisible war waged in contemporary America and all over the world, the Knights of the Word battling the destructive efforts of the Void's demons. When Nest Freemark, child of a legacy of magic, is pulled into the struggle, she learns she may hold the key to the outcome of the entire war. As the forces of good and evil swarm into her hometown of Hopewell, Illinois, the fate of the future world hangs on the mysteries that surround Nest and her family history.

The three novels in the Word/Void trilogy are centered around Nest in three different moments of her life. It is a beautifully written and darkly elegant story about how the destruction of civilization won't come at the drop of a nuclear bomb but the seeds of which are already planted in how we poorly interact with people daily.

Div
07-26-2007, 12:38 PM
How about this story. :cool:


Summary:

In the distant future, after Earth has become used up and overpopulated, humanity turns to the stars for a means of continuing their existence. A reachable solar system is found with three worlds, and so most of Earths remaining resources are used to send three ships into space. Their mission: to transform those worlds into a new home for the human race.
But almost as soon as they arrive greed and treachery get in the way of the mission, plunging the new worlds into a battle of political assertations and advanced weapons of war. Is humanity a flawed species doomed to destroy itself, or can it overcome its own nature and exist into the future?

zgodt
07-26-2007, 07:49 PM
How about this story. :cool:


Summary:

In the distant future, after Earth has become used up and overpopulated, humanity turns to the stars for a means of continuing their existence. A reachable solar system is found with three worlds, and so most of Earths remaining resources are used to send three ships into space. Their mission: to transform those worlds into a new home for the human race.
But almost as soon as they arrive greed and treachery get in the way of the mission, plunging the new worlds into a battle of political assertations and advanced weapons of war. Is humanity a flawed species doomed to destroy itself, or can it overcome its own nature and exist into the future?

What is it? Sounds like run-of-the-mill sci-fi stuff.

zgodt
07-26-2007, 07:53 PM
Summary:

The constant battle between the Word and the Void has raged for millennia, one side never able to permanently tip the balance in its favor over the other. It is an invisible war waged in contemporary America and all over the world, the Knights of the Word battling the destructive efforts of the Void's demons. When Nest Freemark, child of a legacy of magic, is pulled into the struggle, she learns she may hold the key to the outcome of the entire war. As the forces of good and evil swarm into her hometown of Hopewell, Illinois, the fate of the future world hangs on the mysteries that surround Nest and her family history.

The three novels in the Word/Void trilogy are centered around Nest in three different moments of her life. It is a beautifully written and darkly elegant story about how the destruction of civilization won't come at the drop of a nuclear bomb but the seeds of which are already planted in how we poorly interact with people daily.

I don't trust Terry Brooks as a writer, it's true -- I have a hard time taking your word for it (or the word of whoever you cribbed that summary from) that they're "beautifully written and darkly elegant" -- so I probably won't exert myself overmuch to track down these books. But if perchance my wife picks them up (she's traditionally the Brooks fan in the family) or I fall into them at the library or something, then I'll give them a shot.

Div
07-26-2007, 08:05 PM
What is it? Sounds like run-of-the-mill sci-fi stuff.



Its a sci-fi story I'm working on. Thats a very watered down summary, but I wouldn't want to ruin the plot for when it becomes a bestselling classic :lol: ;)

zgodt
07-26-2007, 08:20 PM
Its a sci-fi story I'm working on. Thats a very watered down summary, but I wouldn't want to ruin the plot for when it becomes a bestselling classic :lol: ;)

Cool. It's a classic and fertile theme. The devil is always in the details, right? I would assume/hope that, working on this, you would be familiar with The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury, at the very least. Plus a couple of contemporary TV shows spring to mind (Firefly (and the linked film Serenity ) as well as Battlestar Galactica)...just to be sure you aren't repeating what's already been done well. ;)

Div
07-26-2007, 08:41 PM
Cool. It's a classic and fertile theme. The devil is always in the details, right? I would assume/hope that, working on this, you would be familiar with The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury, at the very least. Plus a couple of contemporary TV shows spring to mind (Firefly (and the linked film Serenity ) as well as Battlestar Galactica)...just to be sure you aren't repeating what's already been done well. ;)



:lol: thats my biggest concern, that it wont be viewed as original. i actually had to scrap entire plot development ideas because i looked back over older things that already followed the same pattern. im familiar with everything you mentioned, except for battlestar. ill have to check it out now to make sure there arent any blatant similarities. mostly what im trying is to combine philosophical/political themes with some heinlein-esque militarism and lots of futuristic-yet-not-too-farfetched inventions. then add some light humor, diverse characters, and unexpected plot developments. alot easier said than done.

ChildrenofSodom
07-26-2007, 11:16 PM
Terry Brooks is very good. I've only read one of his books, one of the less sci-fi ones, but it was absolutely awesome.

DethMaiden
07-27-2007, 12:53 PM
I don't trust Terry Brooks as a writer, it's true -- I have a hard time taking your word for it (or the word of whoever you cribbed that summary from) that they're "beautifully written and darkly elegant" -- so I probably won't exert myself overmuch to track down these books. But if perchance my wife picks them up (she's traditionally the Brooks fan in the family) or I fall into them at the library or something, then I'll give them a shot.

Ha, I lifted the summary from Brooks' website. But the Word and Void is my favorite contemporary sci-fi/fantasy series (contemporary here meaning post-Dune).

zgodt
07-27-2007, 01:53 PM
:lol: thats my biggest concern, that it wont be viewed as original. i actually had to scrap entire plot development ideas because i looked back over older things that already followed the same pattern. im familiar with everything you mentioned, except for battlestar. ill have to check it out now to make sure there arent any blatant similarities. mostly what im trying is to combine philosophical/political themes with some heinlein-esque militarism and lots of futuristic-yet-not-too-farfetched inventions. then add some light humor, diverse characters, and unexpected plot developments. alot easier said than done.

Well, you know, originality is sci-fi is largely based on the same things as originality in any kind of fiction: creating compelling and believable characters engaged in a lively conflict with high stakes. If you can write well, and make characters come to life, then you don't have to worry so much about whether aspects of the plot are familiar. A lot of people still say Shakespeare was the best writer who ever lived, and he stole 90% of his plots from other people.

Div
07-27-2007, 02:06 PM
Well, you know, originality is sci-fi is largely based on the same things as originality in any kind of fiction: creating compelling and believable characters engaged in a lively conflict with high stakes. If you can write well, and make characters come to life, then you don't have to worry so much about whether aspects of the plot are familiar. A lot of people still say Shakespeare was the best writer who ever lived, and he stole 90% of his plots from other people.


I think same goes for movies too. Hell, taking other people's ideas didn't stop Lucas from making it big. (even tho, I'll hand it to him for making some quality movies and keeping them going strong after all these years) But to get back on topic, I think the most important thing is for the story to take itself seriously. Harry Potter probably wouldn't have become successful if it didn't.

ADD
07-31-2007, 09:46 PM
Great book, loved 'em all, sad that there will be no more.

SomewhereInTime72
07-31-2007, 10:38 PM
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/59/Snapes_on_a_plane.jpg

ChildrenofSodom
08-01-2007, 03:11 AM
ghey

DethMaiden
08-01-2007, 07:26 AM
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/59/Snapes_on_a_plane.jpg

:lol: :lol: :fist:

Div
08-01-2007, 09:55 AM
:lol:

tmactaggart
08-05-2007, 11:16 PM
I see this has gone onto some offtopic drivel but for those interested I was reading the newspaper a coupla days ago and JK Rowling did some web interview asking questions about the new book and stuff and she said that after killing voldemort Harry goes on to fight dark wizards as a career, Ron goes to help in the Weasley joke shop and Hermione goes into defending animal rights and after that goes into wizard law as a career. Just for the fanboys left wondering what their jobs were.:D

DreamEvil001
08-06-2007, 07:10 PM
looking back I really really liked this book, it gets better the more I think about it. she is a damn good story teller, she doesn't just make up stuff as she goes along, I mean, fuck, she planted Aberforth would be the bartender in the 5th book. when they go to the bar to plan D.A. meetings Harry thinks the bartender smells like goats, a hint from when dumbledore says his brother was arrested for illegal charms on goats. thats fucking obscure

zgodt
08-06-2007, 08:28 PM
I see this has gone onto some offtopic drivel but for those interested I was reading the newspaper a coupla days ago and JK Rowling did some web interview asking questions about the new book and stuff and she said that after killing voldemort Harry goes on to fight dark wizards as a career, Ron goes to help in the Weasley joke shop and Hermione goes into defending animal rights and after that goes into wizard law as a career. Just for the fanboys left wondering what their jobs were.:D

Do you have a link by chance?

zgodt
08-06-2007, 08:33 PM
looking back I really really liked this book, it gets better the more I think about it. she is a damn good story teller, she doesn't just make up stuff as she goes along, I mean, fuck, she planted Aberforth would be the bartender in the 5th book. when they go to the bar to plan D.A. meetings Harry thinks the bartender smells like goats, a hint from when dumbledore says his brother was arrested for illegal charms on goats. thats fucking obscure

Yeah, she's been good at that throughout the series. Take book 3 -- the fact that the damn rat from book 1 turns out to be Pettigrew blew my mind... :eek:

That Ms. Rowling knows what the fuck she's doing.

zgodt
08-08-2007, 05:29 PM
Here's a passionately negative review of the last Harry Potter book (and the whole series) which I think makes some very compelling points.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070813/chaudhry

SomewhereInTime72
08-08-2007, 09:18 PM
One of my biggest problems with the entire Harry Potter series is the ridiculous one-dimensionality of Voldermot. Even other, minor, bad guys were depicted with more personality.

zgodt
08-08-2007, 11:26 PM
One of my biggest problems with the entire Harry Potter series is the ridiculous one-dimensionality of Voldermot. Even other, minor, bad guys were depicted with more personality.

Complex characterization isn't really Rowling's strong point.

On the other hand, I think Voldemort has more layers than, say, Sauron.

Angelripper
08-08-2007, 11:31 PM
One of my biggest problems with the entire Harry Potter series is the ridiculous one-dimensionality of Voldermot. Even other, minor, bad guys were depicted with more personality.
What about Tom Riddle? I thought he was a well-defined character who seemed highly believable - a brilliant student, but one who thought he was well above the others. Over time, his dabbling in dark magic turned him more and more into a monster. What about his mother who had died giving birth to him? What about his father, who ran away from his mother when he found out she was a witch? Surely, that gives a lot of depth to this character; most importantly, a character who had never known parental love, a parallel of protagonist Potter. However, Tom Riddle chooses to never accept love, regardless of whether it's parental, mutual, or anything - he doesn't believe in love, and look what it turned him into.

SomewhereInTime72
08-08-2007, 11:34 PM
Complex characterization isn't really Rowling's strong point.

On the other hand, I think Voldemort has more layers than, say, Sauron.

Yeah, but at least LOTR doesn't really leave you thinking "Gee, I wish there was more depth to Sauron." :tongue:

Angelripper
08-08-2007, 11:35 PM
Here's a passionately negative review of the last Harry Potter book (and the whole series) which I think makes some very compelling points.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070813/chaudhry
I disagree with the criticism about the epilogue - it leaves so much left to the reader's imagination, and that is what I loved about the whole Harry Potter series, the fact that you could really imagine what their world was like, even if Rowling did not mention it. You could actually visualize in your mind the lessons occurring at Hogwarts, the tiring Quidditch practices, the ongoing love between Ron, Hermione, Harry, and Ron's sister (I dislike Ginny). The ending could have revealed more, but as far as I'm concerned, it was a fine ending to a near perfect book and series. On the other hand, the ending to the Lord of the Rings trilogy was so drawn out and plodding, I fell asleep reading the book, I fell asleep during the movies - and with that thought, critics love to compare Lord of the Rings with the Harry Potter series - The Fellowship of the Ring had a near 200 page walk through a forest full of trees and... barely anything else save for a few bad guys. Absolutely boring.

DethMaiden
08-09-2007, 04:25 AM
Whoa, when did it become okay to bash Lord of the Rings? :hmm:

ChildrenofSodom
08-09-2007, 04:35 AM
Whoa, when did it become okay to bash Lord of the Rings? :hmm:

When became the nerd's choice.

zgodt
08-09-2007, 06:59 AM
Whoa, when did it become okay to bash Lord of the Rings? :hmm:

(a) When it was written.
(b) Who's bashing LOTR?

Angelripper
08-09-2007, 07:33 AM
Whoa, when did it become okay to bash Lord of the Rings? :hmm:
Well, after reading them I felt that Harry Potter was a lot better.

DethMaiden
08-09-2007, 08:31 AM
(a) When it was written.
(b) Who's bashing LOTR?

a) Yeah yeah yeah.
b) Sauron > Voldemort

:eyes: Dammit, I can't possibly be taken seriously because I never finished the Potter books:bouville:

Div
08-09-2007, 10:31 AM
Whoa, when did it become okay to bash Lord of the Rings? :hmm:


When the movies were made and it became a social phenomenon.

DethMaiden
08-09-2007, 10:32 AM
I personally prefer the Dune Chronicles to Lord of the Rings. But they're both pretty much holy tomes.

DreamEvil001
08-09-2007, 10:45 AM
the Lord of the Rings books are good, but there isn't really anything special to them. not that harry potter is better in a writing sense, they're just more enjoyable. the movies for lord of the rings on the other hand are very well done, while the harry potter movies are shit

Div
08-09-2007, 12:15 PM
I personally prefer the Dune Chronicles to Lord of the Rings. But they're both pretty much holy tomes.


I would agree with this for the first book, but I didn't like how Herbert decided to bring back dead characters and have them possess people. Why bother killing a character if you're just going to bring them right back?

DethMaiden
08-09-2007, 02:12 PM
I would agree with this for the first book, but I didn't like how Herbert decided to bring back dead characters and have them possess people. Why bother killing a character if you're just going to bring them right back?

Yeah, by the fiftieth Duncan ghola I was like "Why?"

MetalDrummer888
08-09-2007, 07:32 PM
Yea, fuck anyone whos a fanatic, i mean they should just fucking go to hell for liking something and wanting to express it especially all those douchebags who walk around in biker vests with band patches all over the place. they should just get a fucking life! and especially when theyre on tv, cause ill be DAMNED if anyone puts something on tv that annoys me!



:tp:

wow. props. :party:

ChildrenofSodom
08-09-2007, 07:56 PM
wow. props. :party:

A little late there pal.

zgodt
08-09-2007, 08:15 PM
b) Sauron > Voldemort
I wasn't making a value judgment. Sauron is flatter than Voldemort, period, because Sauron has basically no personality at all. He's just some vague evil power. Tolkien makes it work -- part of what's scary about Sauron is how inaccessible and unknown he is. But that's also pretty easy to construct, in a way. It's easier to critique Rowling for her portrayal of Voldemort because she actually goes out on a tiny limb and, you know, portrays him. ;)

DethMaiden
08-09-2007, 08:19 PM
I wasn't making a value judgment. Sauron is flatter than Voldemort, period, because Sauron has basically no personality at all. He's just some vague evil power. Tolkien makes it work -- part of what's scary about Sauron is how inaccessible and unknown he is. But that's also pretty easy to construct, in a way. It's easier to critique Rowling for her portrayal of Voldemort because she actually goes out on a tiny limb and, you know, portrays him. ;)

Yeah, I wouldn't argue that Sauron is among literature's deeper villains, he's just badass ;) And you're right that Tolkien makes that work. As for Voldemort, having only read the first three books, I can't make a fair judgment as to his portrayal. But assuming there is one, he's probably much deeper than Sauron :lol:

ADD
08-09-2007, 08:20 PM
Whoa, when did it become okay to bash Lord of the Rings? :hmm:
Those books are lame.

Div
08-09-2007, 09:41 PM
I was hoping lotr would end differently. instead of the tower falling down i hoped maybe Sauron would come back in his death-knight form and start kicking some ass, then they'd all have a big showdown with him. Just seeing the ring go *poof* and he dies was a bit anti-climactic.

powerslave_85
08-09-2007, 11:04 PM
Here's a passionately negative review of the last Harry Potter book (and the whole series) which I think makes some very compelling points.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070813/chaudhry
Wow, that was extremely well-written and interesting. Definitely not what I was expecting from an internet book review.

zgodt
08-10-2007, 05:37 AM
Wow, that was extremely well-written and interesting. Definitely not what I was expecting from an internet book review.

It's from The Nation. Most of their stuff is well-written and interesting.

Div
08-10-2007, 11:36 AM
That review is a bit harsh for a childrens book...

zgodt
08-10-2007, 12:10 PM
That review is a bit harsh for a childrens book...

Not for one that holds the record for most copies of any book ever sold within a 24 hour period, and that's getting rave reviews from serious newspapers like the NY Times.

Besides, why should children's books be held to lower standards?

Div
08-10-2007, 02:20 PM
Yet Rowling reiterates the love mantra over and over again to make the fatuous--and disingenuous--distinction between good and evil. Voldemort, you see, doesn't have any friends, for to be good, one must love and be loved. If that were the sole criterion for goodness, even Nazis would make the grade.

The story has a simple overall message designed for kids, and these guys are just being cynical about it. I don't think it was written with intention of having an adult philosophical debate on good and evil.

overkiller
08-10-2007, 02:28 PM
Here's a passionately negative review of the last Harry Potter book (and the whole series) which I think makes some very compelling points.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070813/chaudhry

Does this have any spoilers in it? I'm intrigued but I'm only about 3/4 of the way through book 5.


Edit: Nevermind, they were kind enough to clear that up in the first paragraph.

MetalDrummer888
08-10-2007, 02:30 PM
A little late there pal.

i dont see how that matters . . . . :eyes:

ChildrenofSodom
08-10-2007, 03:12 PM
i dont see how that matters . . . . :eyes:

:israel: