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View Full Version : Tim Hardaway, rectally speaking


IamTheMickster
02-16-2007, 08:23 PM
With his recent homophobic comments as an exception, I always thought of this athlete as quite a pretty funny, gifted human being. Especially appealing I think were his years as a part of the Golden State Warriors...wispy comments such as "I got skills!" and his "killer crosscrossover" move with Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullin.

Anyone here forgive him foir speaking his heart the other day?
Anyone accept his apology? Anyone offended?

Anyone think he'd be a welcome attendee at a Maiden concert? I feel that Maiden fans would be pretty open to having a bruddah at enjoy the show.

Although as an actuality, the Miaden show Hot Turkey Ed and I went to at the Shoreline a few years ago there weren't many brothers in attendance.

In my opinion, we should applaud the newspapers for making a few more advertising dollars by executing this story. And in general, we shouldn't pay much attention to has-been athletes' opinions. After all, who really should care about what an athlete thinks about society? All I wanna do is watch them play, and congratulate them for joining a union that pays such good retirement benefits. Sheesh.
Mickster

powerslave_85
02-16-2007, 08:27 PM
I think he should have kept his bigoted mouth shut.

ChildrenofSodom
02-16-2007, 09:03 PM
I didnt hear about it :eyes:

Div
02-16-2007, 09:05 PM
While I unarguably support the right to free speech, I personally don't think his comment was a wise career move.

But like you said, he's just an athlete, people shouldn't be making such a big deal about it.

ChildrenofSodom
02-16-2007, 09:09 PM
While I unarguably support the right to free speech, I personally don't think his comment was a wise career move.

But like you said, he's just an athlete, people shouldn't be making such a big deal about it.

well...Mel Gibson is just an actor and director...what about his right to say things about Jews and such?

powerslave_85
02-16-2007, 09:10 PM
Here's my take: If want to hate gay people, fine. You can live with the fact that you're a bigoted asshole. But keep that little nugget of info to yourself, or at least don't announce it on a fucking radio show. I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with it if he said "gay people make me uncomfortable" or "I don't approve of or agree with their lifestyle." But he didn't say that, he said flat-out "I hate gay people," and said that if he knew someone on his team was gay, he would try to get them kicked off the team. Fuck this guy.

Div
02-16-2007, 09:13 PM
well...Mel Gibson is just an actor and director...what about his right to say things about Jews and such?


The beauty of being an American citizen is that you are free to speak your mind on whatever stance about whatever issue you want to speak about. So yes, Gibson should be able to say things about Jews if he wants without fear of going to jail or whatever... how you will be treated by society afterwards is a different issue though.


And here's the story on Hadaway: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17160685/

ChildrenofSodom
02-16-2007, 09:14 PM
Here's my take: If want to hate gay people, fine. You can live with the fact that you're a bigoted asshole. But keep that little nugget of info to yourself, or at least don't announce it on a fucking radio show. I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with it if he said "gay people make me uncomfortable" or "I don't approve of or agree with their lifestyle." But he didn't say that, he said flat-out "I hate gay people," and said that if he knew someone on his team was gay, he would try to get them kicked off the team. Fuck this guy.

I would never want to be involved in/or around any homosexual activity, but I dont have a problem with gay people...and I certainly wouldnt go out of my way to have them kicked off my team...This guy is a jackass.

ChildrenofSodom
02-16-2007, 09:15 PM
The beauty of being an American citizen is that you are free to speak your mind on whatever stance about whatever issue you want to speak about. So yes, Gibson should be able to say things about Jews if he wants without fear of going to jail or whatever... how you will be treated by society afterwards is a different issue though.


And here's the story on Hadaway: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17160685/

It's completely idiotic how the media tears about a famous person when they say something stupid...there are FAR more extreme cases of bigotry in America.....Mel Gibson's story should have said "Drunken man says regrettable things."

Div
02-16-2007, 09:24 PM
It's completely idiotic how the media tears about a famous person when they say something stupid...there are FAR more extreme cases of bigotry in America.....Mel Gibson's story should have said "Drunken man says regrettable things."

That's cause if the headline read "A drunken John Doe uses anti semitic language" noone would care, but seeing "Mel Gibson" in the title will sell more newspapers.

KerryKingsBeard
02-16-2007, 09:25 PM
Who even cares what Tim Hardaway thinks

ChildrenofSodom
02-16-2007, 09:50 PM
That's cause if the headline read "A drunken John Doe uses anti semitic language" noone would care, but seeing "Mel Gibson" in the title will sell more newspapers.

exactly.

Angelripper
02-17-2007, 03:42 AM
I don't mind gays, but I see where he's coming from. Any time you're in a team, unity is number one. There can not be any animosity between teammates of any sort, otherwise you're doomed to lose.

A gay player in the locker room would make teammates (i.e. Tim Hardaway) supremely uncomfortable. And anytime there's this lack of harmony in the locker room because some John Amaechi is busy staring at the cock of the backup small forward, that teammate needs to consider showering alone.

Imagine if you were in a team of fit, toned girls. It would be hard to keep your dick in place wouldn't it? That's most likely the mentality of a gay athlete - the sweaty, muscular guys turn them on as much as Brazilian Beach Volleyballers turn us on.

Gay athletes are unfortunately a no-no. I'm all for gay marriage and pride and stuff, but there's a line you have to draw. If I saw a teammate checking out my hefty package, I would feel awkward, and it would affect my performance in the game.

DethMaiden
02-17-2007, 04:41 AM
It just isn't right...I don't care what his views are, he shouldn't so blatantly say them, and without regret. I mean, I'm all for his free speech but he crossed a line of political correctness with what he said. Hell, I don't like being PC, but he didn't attempt to make it funny, he just spewed pure hate. Fuck him.

JRA
02-17-2007, 07:15 AM
Just because your views are protected by free speech doesn't mean your job security is.


Exhibit A: Kramer.

zgodt
02-17-2007, 07:16 AM
Here's my take: If want to hate gay people, fine. You can live with the fact that you're a bigoted asshole. But keep that little nugget of info to yourself, or at least don't announce it on a fucking radio show. I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with it if he said "gay people make me uncomfortable" or "I don't approve of or agree with their lifestyle." But he didn't say that, he said flat-out "I hate gay people," and said that if he knew someone on his team was gay, he would try to get them kicked off the team. Fuck this guy.

I'm glad he said it. Bigots these days tend to wrap their bigotry up in nice, polite phrases, and that makes it too easy for people to think that we're all one big happy tolerant society. And therefore it's easy for them to think, why do we need this gay pride parade, and why do I have to keep hearing about people coming out of the closet, and aren't anti-discrimination laws really just anti-Christian bigotry?

zgodt
02-17-2007, 07:19 AM
I don't mind gays, but I see where he's coming from. Any time you're in a team, unity is number one. There can not be any animosity between teammates of any sort, otherwise you're doomed to lose.

A gay player in the locker room would make teammates (i.e. Tim Hardaway) supremely uncomfortable. And anytime there's this lack of harmony in the locker room because some John Amaechi is busy staring at the cock of the backup small forward, that teammate needs to consider showering alone.

Imagine if you were in a team of fit, toned girls. It would be hard to keep your dick in place wouldn't it? That's most likely the mentality of a gay athlete - the sweaty, muscular guys turn them on as much as Brazilian Beach Volleyballers turn us on.

Gay athletes are unfortunately a no-no. I'm all for gay marriage and pride and stuff, but there's a line you have to draw. If I saw a teammate checking out my hefty package, I would feel awkward, and it would affect my performance in the game.
Once upon a time, a very similar argument would have been made about keeping black athletes out of the locker room, because of all the discontent they would sow among their white teammates. The problem here is not the black person, or the gay person -- it's the bigot.

DethMaiden
02-17-2007, 11:32 AM
I'm with Nick, now that I've read all the posts. Saying anything but the word "hate" would have been preferable.

Goddamn him for being on the cover of NBA Live '98! :mad:

Div
02-17-2007, 02:37 PM
I'm with Nick, now that I've read all the posts. Saying anything but the word "hate" would have been preferable.

Goddamn him for being on the cover of NBA Live '98! :mad:

You buy sports games? :eyes:

------------------
On the subject of anti-discrimination laws... NO! Never should there ever be a law passed to limit what a person can say. Let society shun biggotry, but it is by all means NOT the governments job to do it.

DethMaiden
02-17-2007, 06:09 PM
You buy sports games? :eyes:

------------------
On the subject of anti-discrimination laws... NO! Never should there ever be a law passed to limit what a person can say. Let society shun biggotry, but it is by all means NOT the governments job to do it.

Actually, just NBA Live almost every year :party:

----

Agreed.

zgodt
02-17-2007, 10:31 PM
On the subject of anti-discrimination laws... NO! Never should there ever be a law passed to limit what a person can say. Let society shun biggotry, but it is by all means NOT the governments job to do it.
Anti-discrimination laws don't limit what a person can say. The limit what you can fire somebody for, or deny them a job for, or deny them healthcare for, etc.

For instance, racist shitheads are free to say nigger all the want, but they can't legally deny someone housing or employment on the basis of race. That's what anti-discrimination laws mean. I agree there's no room in this country for "thought police" and if someone wants to profess their fag-hate, that's their right. But should it be their right to not lease an apartment to someone gay, or not hire someone gay, or not pay medical bills for someone gay, etc.?

DethMaiden
02-18-2007, 06:37 AM
[QUOTE=zgodt;144998But should it be their right to not lease an apartment to someone gay, or not hire someone gay, or not pay medical bills for someone gay, etc.?[/QUOTE]

No, because people are people and they can get the hell over it. If said gay person has a history of not paying housing bills, isn't qualified for the job, or can pay their own damn medical bills, then yes, but it shouldn't be based even an inkling of a percent on the fact that they're homosexual.

Div
02-18-2007, 11:58 AM
I agree with you guys, I was thinking of something else when I said "anti-discrimination laws". What I meant was recently proposed ideas in congress about making it illegal to say racist remarks and such. But yea, denying someone a job or education based on gender or race or whatever and not on their performance should be illegal.

IamTheMickster
02-19-2007, 04:53 PM
I agree with you guys, I was thinking of something else when I said "anti-discrimination laws". What I meant was recently proposed ideas in congress about making it illegal to say racist remarks and such. But yea, denying someone a job or education based on gender or race or whatever and not on their performance should be illegal.

I pretty much agree with you on this as well.
What I do agree with, however, is "reverse discrimination" to a certain extent.
Also known as affirmative action, I believe for example that race should play a factor in giving blacks favorable entry into college over a better-qualified white student. Why? Because blacks have been discriminated against for about 500 years or so in North America. And a few years of reverse discrimination in the US will help blacks out a little bit. And a few years of this activity pales in comparison to 500 years.

DethMaiden
02-19-2007, 05:02 PM
I pretty much agree with you on this as well.
What I do agree with, however, is "reverse discrimination" to a certain extent.
Also known as affirmative action, I believe for example that race should play a factor in giving blacks favorable entry into college over a better-qualified white student. Why? Because blacks have been discriminated against for about 500 years or so in North America. And a few years of reverse discrimination in the US will help blacks out a little bit. And a few years of this activity pales in comparison to 500 years.

I disagree fully, because the blacks who we are admitting into colleges ahead of better qualified whites were not enslaved, nor were they the victims of Jim Crow Laws. I strongly dislike affirmative action because it allows people to play the "race card" and win. If I was better qualified for a job than an African-American and they got it instead, I would understandably be angry about it.

SomewhereInTime72
02-19-2007, 05:25 PM
I disagree fully, because the blacks who we are admitting into colleges ahead of better qualified whites were not enslaved, nor were they the victims of Jim Crow Laws. I strongly dislike affirmative action because it allows people to play the "race card" and win. If I was better qualified for a job than an African-American and they got it instead, I would understandably be angry about it.

To be fair, a lot of the less-qualified black students are less-qualified because they had to grow up in poor neighborhoods and areas with bad educational resources... which in turn is a product of their family's history of oppression by this country.

ChildrenofSodom
02-19-2007, 05:26 PM
I think it is severly backwards to outlaw the distinction of race to deny someone something, and then enact laws that promote the seperation of races, so that the minority can recieve a hand out.

If we are going to have equality on some fields, lets have equality on ALL fields.

PS. I watched Glory this weekend :fist:

DethMaiden
02-19-2007, 05:26 PM
To be fair, a lot of the less-qualified black students are less-qualified because they had to grow up in poor neighborhoods and areas with bad educational resources... which in turn is a product of their family's history of oppression by this country.

Still, give them opportunities, not handouts. My mom said nothing annoyed her more than all the black students at her college who cut all their classes but knew they'd be getting degrees anyway. I'm not saying all affirmative action is bad, but racial quotas and making the path easier for black students is out of the question.

SomewhereInTime72
02-19-2007, 05:30 PM
Still, give them opportunities, not handouts. My mom said nothing annoyed her more than all the black students at her college who cut all their classes but knew they'd be getting degrees anyway. I'm not saying all affirmative action is bad, but racial quotas and making the path easier for black students is out of the question.

Oh I definitely agree. Affirmative action and racial quotas are different though. Racial quotas are pretty bad and stupid, but I see nothing wrong with the occasional help given to a minority. :D

JRA
02-19-2007, 05:32 PM
I pretty much agree with you on this as well.
What I do agree with, however, is "reverse discrimination" to a certain extent.
Also known as affirmative action, I believe for example that race should play a factor in giving blacks favorable entry into college over a better-qualified white student. Why? Because blacks have been discriminated against for about 500 years or so in North America. And a few years of reverse discrimination in the US will help blacks out a little bit. And a few years of this activity pales in comparison to 500 years.


First of all, the United States has only been around for 200 years, and I highly doubt the Europeans did slave traded with Native Americans they didn't know existed.

Second of all, allow me to quote Chris Rock:

"No, I don't think a black person who scored lower on a job test should get the job over a white person. But if its a tie, fuck 'em. Shit, you guys had 200 years to study for this!"

ChildrenofSodom
02-19-2007, 05:32 PM
To be fair, a lot of the less-qualified black students are less-qualified because they had to grow up in poor neighborhoods and areas with bad educational resources... which in turn is a product of their family's history of oppression by this country.

I agree most with Bill Cosby: slavery and the white man didnt force births-out-of-wedlock, high crime rates, high drug rates, high amounts of fatherless familes, in-decypherable-slang of the English language, and sky high high-school dropout rates.

It all here and now. The oppressed will overcome, one way or another. Oppurtunities should be given, not free jobs.

IamTheMickster
02-19-2007, 06:29 PM
First of all, the United States has only been around for 200 years, and I highly doubt the Europeans did slave traded with Native Americans they didn't know existed.

Second of all, allow me to quote Chris Rock:

"No, I don't think a black person who scored lower on a job test should get the job over a white person. But if its a tie, fuck 'em. Shit, you guys had 200 years to study for this!"

Yes, you make some good points. I'm not really trying to take the most stringent position on affirmative action, but more to try to just get my head around what the experience of someone like a black person or homosexual experiences in today's society. I"m not remotely qualified to speak of their oppression, but just to acknowledge and ponder the predicament of a minority in today's US culture must really be a bitch.

I just thought it pretty weird Hardaway would expouse such hate. Pure idiocy. I'd gather that his growing up years may not have been a piece of cake exactly, no matter what part of the US he grew up in. Must've been a real bitch in many ways.

At any rate, you should brush up on the history of slavery as it relates to the African continent, the North American subcontinent (Caribbean), Europe's role, and the underlying related commerce of that day. You'd then understand the 500 years span a bit vs 200 years. Believe it or not, the United States is NOT the center of the universe (although I sometimes delusionally believe California-stan is)

Div
02-19-2007, 06:31 PM
I love that term, haha "the white man" haha. What a crock of shit.

Im white and my ancestors came here quite some time after the whole slavery ordeal went down, so I really have no guilt about being white and I see no reason for a black man to get a job over me because of slavery.

ChildrenofSodom
02-19-2007, 06:36 PM
I love that term, haha "the white man" haha. What a crock of shit.

Im white and my ancestors came here quite some time after the whole slavery ordeal went down, so I really have no guilt about being white and I see no reason for a black man to get a job over me because of slavery.

I can only speak for myself and my family, but I dont know many white folk that own slaves.

JRA
02-19-2007, 06:40 PM
Believe it or not, the United States is NOT the center of the universe

Now allow me to quote George Carlin: "I did not need to be told that.":D

powerslave_85
02-19-2007, 07:20 PM
To be fair, a lot of the less-qualified black students are less-qualified because they had to grow up in poor neighborhoods and areas with bad educational resources... which in turn is a product of their family's history of oppression by this country.
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. Today's racism and oppression of minorities is considerably more subtle than slavery and segregation laws, but it's undoubtedly there and is still a huge problem.

ChildrenofSodom
02-19-2007, 08:22 PM
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. Today's racism and oppression of minorities is considerably more subtle than slavery and segregation laws, but it's undoubtedly there and is still a huge problem.

but why punish the white people, who have no hand in the problem?

SomewhereInTime72
02-19-2007, 08:37 PM
but why punish the white people, who have no hand in the problem?

Um. They ARE the problem.

hot_turkey_ed
02-19-2007, 08:54 PM
Um. They ARE the problem.

Caucasians have no exclusive on racism.

SomewhereInTime72
02-19-2007, 08:56 PM
Caucasians have no exclusive on racism.

Oh of course. But this country is something along the lines of 80% white, and the amount is even higher in terms of people in power, so it's only natural that white people are purveying MOST of the racism. :hmm:

ChildrenofSodom
02-19-2007, 09:07 PM
Oh of course. But this country is something along the lines of 80% white, and the amount is even higher in terms of people in power, so it's only natural that white people are purveying MOST of the racism. :hmm:

To blame the entire mishappenings of one race on another is very racism, in itself. I dont know any white person that has held back a minority, personally.

What about the poor, uneducated white people? The rednecks, if you will. Who do they have to blame for their problems? Many steps can be made to ensure minorities 'overcome', a few of which are finishing high school, staying out of violence and drugs, using money for productive means instead of pimping out cars and clothes, stop killing each other, etc...That may sound really racist, but I have been to Dayton, Ohio...the closest thing to slums in my area, and all those things stand out to me.

The same person that is rollin on 20s and pimping new 100 dollar AndOnes by day, is breaking into houses and stealing copper pipes and furnaces at night.

hot_turkey_ed
02-19-2007, 09:12 PM
Oh of course. But this country is something along the lines of 80% white, and the amount is even higher in terms of people in power, so it's only natural that white people are purveying MOST of the racism. :hmm:

What exactly is your point is making an assertion that "white people are the problem"? Can you imagine the fury that would come on the person who posted "black/brown/yellow/youchoose people are the problem?" Is it even helpful in furthering debate? Does everything have to be about race?

In any case, the racism of the majority does not justify the racism of the minority.

ChildrenofSodom
02-19-2007, 09:16 PM
In any case, the racism of the majority does not justify the racism of the minority.

amen

powerslave_85
02-19-2007, 09:22 PM
To blame the entire mishappenings of one race on another is very racism, in itself. I dont know any white person that has held back a minority, personally.
That's because the problems that hold back minorities are not caused by individuals, it's caused by a system.

What about the poor, uneducated white people? The rednecks, if you will. Who do they have to blame for their problems? Many steps can be made to ensure minorities 'overcome', a few of which are finishing high school, staying out of violence and drugs, using money for productive means instead of pimping out cars and clothes, stop killing each other, etc...That may sound really racist, but I have been to Dayton, Ohio...the closest thing to slums in my area, and all those things stand out to me.

The same person that is rollin on 20s and pimping new 100 dollar AndOnes by day, is breaking into houses and stealing copper pipes and furnaces at night.
Now you're out of line and falling back on ridiculous stereotypes. Get out of here with that shit.

Ed, racism towards whites does not result in white people being oppressed on a scale that affects their overall status. It's not the same.

hot_turkey_ed
02-19-2007, 09:22 PM
To blame the entire mishappenings of one race on another is very racism, in itself. I dont know any white person that has held back a minority, personally.

This doesn't tell the whole story. You may not know but it happens. Racism has been a problem in the US and still is. But than again, it is also a massive problem in the world at large. The US leads the world on many fronts but not this one.

powerslave_85
02-19-2007, 09:35 PM
I'll definitely agree that America is not the most racist country in the world by a long shot. But, since we pride ourselves on being the land of the free where all men are created equal, you'd think we'd be doing a lot better than we really are.

hot_turkey_ed
02-19-2007, 09:37 PM
Ed, racism towards whites does not result in white people being oppressed on a scale that affects their overall status. It's not the same.

CoS brushed up against a decent point but didn't quite get there. Poor... Uneducated... Lack of social grace... there are substantial portions of the the "white" population that get oppressed. The system works these folks over as much as any minority. I'm not mitigating the issues at hand but the Man steps on everyone.

powerslave_85
02-19-2007, 09:45 PM
CoS brushed up against a decent point but didn't quite get there. Poor... Uneducated... Lack of social grace... there are substantial portions of the the "white" population that get oppressed. The system works these folks over as much as any minority. I'm not mitigating the issues at hand but the Man steps on everyone.
You're right. There are a lot of poor, uneducated whites in this country. But my point was that racism towards whites is not the root cause or even a factor in those cases, simply because whites hold the power.

hot_turkey_ed
02-19-2007, 10:00 PM
You're right. There are a lot of poor, uneducated whites in this country. But my point was that racism towards whites is not the root cause or even a factor in those cases, simply because whites hold the power.

Does it really matter that the oppression is not based on race? Oppression is oppression. Does it really matter whether it's racial, religious, or .... do you remember that Star Trek with the alien that is black on the one, white on the other.. and there's the alien (colors in reverse on the other alien) who wants to fight him because they're? Elbonia? :D Racisim is just an excuse for oppression. What's more important the racism or the oppression?

ChildrenofSodom
02-20-2007, 02:59 AM
Now you're out of line and falling back on ridiculous stereotypes. Get out of here with that shit.

Perhaps, but go to any slum, ghetto, crib, or urban setting, and tell me I am 100% wrong. I'm not racist; both Bill Cosby and Chris Rock has said the same thing, and they are black. These are merely social observations.

To quote Brad, there wouldnt be stereotypes if there werent people to fulfill them.

zgodt
02-20-2007, 04:16 AM
but why punish the white people, who have no hand in the problem?

In affirmative action, nobody is punishing white people. The problem here is that people look at affirmative action and they only see the "benefit" received by the black person at the end of the process leading up to the job or educational opportunity in question. What they don't see is the benefits received by the white person over the long haul of their life that has put them in a better position to meet certain quantitative criteria. The whole notion of "better qualified" deserves a second look here. Does the white person with better scores have better aptitude for the position? Not necessarily. The white person's scores may be inflated by the relative degree of support he/she has received over the entirety of his/her life by a society which still systematically favors white people.

hot_turkey_ed
02-20-2007, 05:18 AM
Does the white person with better scores have better aptitude for the position? Not necessarily. The white person's scores may be inflated by the relative degree of support he/she has received over the entirety of his/her life by a society which still systematically favors white people.

The degree of support necessary to generate merit does not disqualify the achievement itself of merit. That argument doesn't hold weight. Should NASA hire the rocket scientist who can best design the next generation space ship or hire a diverse mediocrity that balances ability with a politically correct sense of multicultural racial accounting?

How about this... would you be ready to impose racial quotas on the PGA tour? Should Q-School be about making the cut, whatever the score required, or should it be racially balanced to achieve diversity?

zgodt
02-20-2007, 06:27 AM
The degree of support necessary to generate merit does not disqualify the achievement itself of merit. That argument doesn't hold weight. Should NASA hire the rocket scientist who can best design the next generation space ship or hire a diverse mediocrity that balances ability with a politically correct sense of multicultural racial accounting?

How about this... would you be ready to impose racial quotas on the PGA tour? Should Q-School be about making the cut, whatever the score required, or should it be racially balanced to achieve diversity?
My short answer is twofold: First, I'm more interested in fairness than rocketry -- and if the most efficient development of the next generation space ship depends on treating people unfairly, then I'll take the less efficient development model. Second, the assumption that affirmative action promotes "mediocrity" is not borne out by experience. Why do you think so many business and industry leaders, to say nothing of the U.S. military, favor affirmative action? It's not because they love mediocrity in their employees.

hot_turkey_ed
02-20-2007, 07:52 AM
My short answer is twofold: First, I'm more interested in fairness than rocketry -- and if the most efficient development of the next generation space ship depends on treating people unfairly, then I'll take the less efficient development model. Second, the assumption that affirmative action promotes "mediocrity" is not borne out by experience. Why do you think so many business and industry leaders, to say nothing of the U.S. military, favor affirmative action? It's not because they love mediocrity in their employees.

I'd rather humanity get off the planet. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I don't consider it an issue of fairness.

Affirmative Action by goal and definition promotes diversity, not excellence. That's not to say AA can't deliver excellence but it's not the focus. When the goal is not being the best, you will typically get less than the best. Thomas Sowell (http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2637) comments on this: Despite all the gushing about the mystical benefits of "diversity" in higher education, a recent study by respected academic scholars found that "college diversity programs fail to raise standards" and that "a majority of faculty members and administrators recognize this when speaking anonymously."

Business leaders must at minimum give AA lip service because they have to do so. A company like Microsoft may be committed to diversity but you can't honestly deny it was built on IQ points and not quotas.

The military is a much more complicated subject, but let it me suggest that if it was strictly an issue of fairness, I doubt homosexuality would be still be an issue.

Div
02-20-2007, 11:07 AM
pimping out cars and clothes, stop killing each other, etc...

The same person that is rollin on 20s and pimping new 100 dollar AndOnes by day, is breaking into houses and stealing copper pipes and furnaces at night.


Well that's the common stereotype put out by tv and other media, but the truth is if you're a lower class black person living in the slums you wont be able to afford spinners for your car, let alone a car to begin with, you won't be able to afford diamond encrusted teeth, and you won't be able to afford the latest pair of michael jordan basketball shoes. The people who do most of the ghetto stuff (pimping out your ride, etc) are just suburbanite kids who are too spoiled to see that their parents provided them with a better lifestyle, but instead they'll go backwards and imitate the "black ghetto" culture that the media gives them, and if they dont do that shit they get called "white".

It's just all part of media conditioning if you ask me. And I don't understand how rap stars can be considered as living a ghetto lifestyle. Is it just cause of where they were born? I was born in new york city, but noones calling me ghetto. They live a millionaires lifestyle, blowing money on expensive toys and whatnot.

ChildrenofSodom
02-20-2007, 11:42 AM
Well that's the common stereotype put out by tv and other media, .


I would agree with you on that, if I hadnt already seen it with my own eyes, in Dayton Ohio.

zgodt
02-20-2007, 01:16 PM
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Agreed. :)
Business leaders must at minimum give AA lip service because they have to do so. A company like Microsoft may be committed to diversity but you can't honestly deny it was built on IQ points and not quotas.
I don't particularly see why business leaders would need to give lip service to affirmative action. And when we're talking about affirmative action, we are not talking about quotas. Quota systems have been discredited and discarded long ago, and where affirmative action is still practiced now, it is practiced quota-free. Of course, legal opponents of it still try to classify a.a. as "de facto quotas" but that's another matter.
The military is a much more complicated subject, but let it me suggest that if it was strictly an issue of fairness, I doubt homosexuality would be still be an issue.
That's an interesting point...