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powerslave_85
01-24-2007, 07:28 PM
I'm not sure what number this one is, but Pavo can fix that later if he feels like it.

Reading for school:
Xenophon- "Conversations of Socrates"
Eric Burns- "Infamous Scribblers"

Reading for pleasure:
Noam Chomsky- "Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World"

DethMaiden
01-24-2007, 07:31 PM
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

Holy Christ, this book is awesome.

ChildrenofSodom
01-24-2007, 07:33 PM
Divine Comedy-Dante

SomewhereInTime72
01-24-2007, 07:33 PM
Just started Apt Pupil by Stephen King. I'm (very slowly :eyes: ) getting through 'Different Seasons.'

anthraxmosher
01-24-2007, 08:32 PM
American Psycho-Bret Easton Ellis. Awesome book. A bit gruesome though.

DethMaiden
01-25-2007, 03:35 AM
American Psycho-Bret Easton Ellis. Awesome book. A bit gruesome though.

I read that earlier this year. Plays with your mind, don't it?

overkiller
01-25-2007, 02:52 PM
Xenophon- "Conversations of Socrates"


:rocker:

What class is that for?

powerslave_85
01-25-2007, 05:05 PM
:rocker:

What class is that for?
It's a history class on 4th century Greek society and culture.

overkiller
01-25-2007, 05:09 PM
It's a history class on 4th century Greek society and culture.

Nice, I'll be starting a very similar class (just a broad "history of ancient Greece") in a few days :party:

powerslave_85
01-25-2007, 05:45 PM
Nice, I'll be starting a very similar class (just a broad "history of ancient Greece") in a few days :party:
Cool. It's a really good class, the professor is great.

zgodt
01-25-2007, 10:12 PM
It's a history class on 4th century Greek society and culture.
4th century BCE? During Aristotle's time?

I would love that class.



But dude -- reading Noam Chomsky for "pleasure" is a little fucked up. :)

powerslave_85
01-25-2007, 11:32 PM
4th century BCE? During Aristotle's time?

I would love that class.



But dude -- reading Noam Chomsky for "pleasure" is a little fucked up. :)
Yeah.

Haha. Fucked up how?

Bouville
01-25-2007, 11:57 PM
Yeah.

Haha. Fucked up how?

I arrived at the San Francisco International Airport with a Spanish copy of one of Chomsky's book in my hand. I even put it on the desk of the immigration officer, and he let me in :D

zgodt
01-26-2007, 07:19 AM
Yeah.

Haha. Fucked up how?

Don't get me wrong -- I have about 7 Chomsky books on my shelves. But how much pleasure is there in reading about how badly fucked up the world is and always has been and always will be until people organize themselves to change it which of course we never will?

Nah, really, I do get it -- the pleasure is in seeing articulated so clearly the problems in the world that you have always sensed but not been able to put your finger on.

powerslave_85
01-26-2007, 07:29 AM
Don't get me wrong -- I have about 7 Chomsky books on my shelves. But how much pleasure is there in reading about how badly fucked up the world is and always has been and always will be until people organize themselves to change it which of course we never will?

Nah, really, I do get it -- the pleasure is in seeing articulated so clearly the problems in the world that you have always sensed but not been able to put your finger on.
Well, when I say "pleasure," I really mean "something I'm not being tested on or forced to read for class." Actually, I picked it up because it ties into another class I'm taking on 20th century US intervention and foreign policy.

KerryKingsBeard
01-26-2007, 07:25 PM
A Shorter Summa, by Peter Kreeft

powerslave_85
01-27-2007, 12:51 PM
Right now I'm reading an article about the atrocities committed by "Tiger Force" in Vietnam. This is some seriously disturbing shit.

SomewhereInTime72
01-28-2007, 06:56 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070122fa_fact_khatchadourian

:lol: :lol:

zgodt
01-29-2007, 06:52 AM
I'm alternating between scholarly articles on the politics of the Medici takeover in Quattrocentro Florence and my daughter's Nancy Drew mysteries.

powerslave_85
01-29-2007, 06:53 AM
I'm alternating between scholarly articles on the politics of the Medici takeover in Quattrocentro Florence and my daughter's Nancy Drew mysteries.
:lol: :metal:

overkiller
01-31-2007, 06:27 PM
The Dream of Reason, by Anthony Gottlieb

powerslave_85
01-31-2007, 06:37 PM
The Iraq Study Group Report

anthraxmosher
02-01-2007, 12:06 PM
I read that earlier this year. Plays with your mind, don't it?

It does. Awesome book though.

DethMaiden
02-01-2007, 04:27 PM
It does. Awesome book though.

"THIS IS NOT AN EXIT"

:fist:

anthraxmosher
02-01-2007, 05:22 PM
"THIS IS NOT AN EXIT"

:fist:

AHH!!! Thats the last line of the book I think. Im not there yet, but I read the last sentence of the book before I start the book :tp:.

DethMaiden
02-01-2007, 06:13 PM
AHH!!! Thats the last line of the book I think. Im not there yet, but I read the last sentence of the book before I start the book :tp:.

You'll see how it ties in. Didn't mean to accidentally possibly spoil it :eyes:

anthraxmosher
02-01-2007, 08:18 PM
You'll see how it ties in. Didn't mean to accidentally possibly spoil it :eyes:

Not spoiled at all. I cant put the book down. Its awesome. EVERYONE READ IT!!!!

ChildrenofSodom
02-01-2007, 08:18 PM
I finally found me new translation of Dantes Inferno :party: I am reading it for class, and the one I was using had awful syntax, strange spelling, olde references (with no explanations), and while I could still decipher the main idea of the story, I was confused as hell as to all the references...

I was on Canto 13, not I have to reread it...again....

overkiller
02-01-2007, 08:28 PM
I finally found me new translation of Dantes Inferno :party: I am reading it for class, and the one I was using had awful syntax, strange spelling, olde references (with no explanations), and while I could still decipher the main idea of the story, I was confused as hell as to all the references...

I was on Canto 13, not I have to reread it...again....

The same kind of thing happened to me, except the first translation I read was just old(e), I wouldn't call it awful. Just a little archaic. The most recent translation I read (and loved) was Pinsky.

zgodt
02-01-2007, 10:57 PM
The most recent translation I read (and loved) was Pinsky.
That's the translation I've read. I'm not fond of Pinsky as a poet, nor as a columnist, but as a translator he did a nice job.

ChildrenofSodom
02-02-2007, 12:12 PM
The same kind of thing happened to me, except the first translation I read was just old(e), I wouldn't call it awful. Just a little archaic. The most recent translation I read (and loved) was Pinsky.

Yeah...the other wasnt awful, but very dated.....I needed a translator to translate his translation....

DethMaiden
02-02-2007, 02:54 PM
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's translation is the best of the ones I've read.

Div
02-02-2007, 03:06 PM
I like the Jon Schaffer translation. :shred:

SomewhereInTime72
02-02-2007, 09:29 PM
I like the Jon Schaffer translation. :shred:

:lol: :lol: :fist:

overkiller
02-04-2007, 05:33 PM
1066: The Year of the Conquest by David Howarth. The courses I'm taking now have sooo much assigned reading, but it's all more or less awesome.

Div
02-18-2007, 01:02 PM
The best science fiction novel ever,


Dune - Frank Herbert


http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4224/dune00011mh7.jpg

DethMaiden
02-18-2007, 05:45 PM
The best science fiction novel ever,


Dune - Frank Herbert


http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4224/dune00011mh7.jpg

I don't know why there's Halo dudes in the picture, but fuck yeah! :shred:

Div
02-18-2007, 06:26 PM
I don't know why there's Halo dudes in the picture, but fuck yeah! :shred:


I think it's supposed to be the Harkonnens, not sure, it's from the computer game.

I should also add that Dune will be the SECOND best science fiction book once I'm done writing The Republic ;)

DethMaiden
02-18-2007, 06:33 PM
I think it's supposed to be the Harkonnens, not sure, it's from the computer game.


I always pictured very un-high tech characters as I read the series. I dunno why.

overkiller
02-19-2007, 03:28 PM
The Bhagavad Gita.

DethMaiden
02-19-2007, 03:32 PM
I'm reading Left for Dead, a book about the sinking of the U.S.S. Indianapolis during World War II, but I'm trying to finish it up tonight. From there I'll probably try to read The Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand and Invisible Monsters by Chuck Palahniuk at the same time.

Frantic Canadian
02-19-2007, 04:31 PM
Just finishing:

Live From New York

it's about the history of Saturday Night Live

and as soon as I finish that I'm going to read:

New Rules by Bill Maher

ChildrenofSodom
02-19-2007, 05:03 PM
The Bhagavad Gita.

Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

:shred:

overkiller
02-23-2007, 07:52 PM
The Apology of Socrates by Plato. I gotta give a presentation on good ole So-crates on Tuesday. :hecho:

JRA
02-23-2007, 08:34 PM
New Rules by Bill Maher



That's actually pretty funny. Well the non-political stuff is (cos I don't pay attention to politics).

powerslave_85
02-23-2007, 08:53 PM
The Apology of Socrates by Plato. I gotta give a presentation on good ole So-crates on Tuesday. :hecho:
I'm getting reaaaaally tired of Socrates. Fortunately, we've temporarily shifted focus to Athenian legal speeches.

Bill Maher is great. I used to listen to the podcast of his HBO show.

overkiller
02-24-2007, 07:44 AM
I'm getting reaaaaally tired of Socrates. Fortunately, we've temporarily shifted focus to Athenian legal speeches.

I've never had to do anything on Socrates for a class before, so I'm excited for that (I do like him). I just don't want to do this presentation :hecho:

Athenian legal speeches eh? Who are you reading?


Edit: Wait, that's not true, I had to read Gorgias for an ethics class last semester. Still :D

powerslave_85
02-24-2007, 07:51 AM
Athenian legal speeches eh? Who are you reading?

It's "Trials From Classical Athens," translated by Christopher Carey. It's a collection of speeches from various legal trials. It's pretty interesting, because some of the cases are pretty juicy stuff (guy kills another man when he catches him sleeping with his wife, etc).

zgodt
03-05-2007, 08:12 PM
The Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini, which is awesome, and which is available free online if you look for it (via Project Gutenberg).

What is better than reading the rants of a bitter, sarcastic, occasionally murderous genius living and working in Florence 450 years ago?

ADD
03-05-2007, 09:08 PM
What is better than reading the rants of a bitter, sarcastic, occasionally murderous genius living and working in Florence 450 years ago?
Lots of things :D Sounds interesting though.

DethMaiden
03-06-2007, 03:36 AM
Chuck Palahniuk- Invisible Monsters for book club.

Fuck modern literature, this book blows.

JRA
03-06-2007, 06:15 AM
I'm reading R30 Roadshow: Landscape with Drums by Neil Peart.

ADD
03-06-2007, 03:47 PM
I'm reading R30 Roadshow: Landscape with Drums by Neil Peart.
Tell me how it is, cuz I'm bigtime interested to read that :cool:

Div
03-08-2007, 06:55 PM
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant


first good article in a looooooooooooooooooooong time

JRA
03-08-2007, 07:22 PM
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant


first good article in a looooooooooooooooooooong time

No it isn't. I didn't laugh once at it. And yes, I am a Mac user, but I'm not one of those guys who "Can't shut the fuck up about it."

DethMaiden
03-08-2007, 07:24 PM
No it isn't. I didn't laugh once at it. And yes, I am a Mac user, but I'm not one of those guys who "Can't shut the fuck up about it."

They exist though. And they're mostly hipsters.

Div
03-08-2007, 07:32 PM
They exist though. And they're mostly hipsters.

Yea. Especially ipod people who walk around with the white earbuds in all the time. basically saying "please mug me".

ChildrenofSodom
03-09-2007, 12:00 AM
Yea. Especially ipod people who walk around with the white earbuds in all the time. basically saying "please mug me".

I hate those people.

"I see you have an MP3 player...oh, it isnt an iPod....how inferior! My new iPod is so much better than yours." As if the sound is somehow better from an iPod.....THOU SHALL NOT THINK, THOU SHALT CONFORM!!

I just finished Animal Farm....gonna finish Dante's Inferno and start 1984 for class.

Div
03-09-2007, 08:17 AM
I hate those people.

"I see you have an MP3 player...oh, it isnt an iPod....how inferior! My new iPod is so much better than yours." As if the sound is somehow better from an iPod.....THOU SHALL NOT THINK, THOU SHALT CONFORM!!

I just finished Animal Farm....gonna finish Dante's Inferno and start 1984 for class.



Big brother is watching you :eyes:

powerslave_85
03-09-2007, 08:54 AM
You know, some people buy iPods because they're easy to use and reliable, not because they're cool. And I ditched those white earbuds the second I bought it, because they suck ass.

JRA
03-09-2007, 11:01 AM
You know, some people buy iPods because they're easy to use and reliable, not because they're cool. And I ditched those white earbuds the second I bought it, because they suck ass.

They're definitely easy to use, but not quite reliable, I've been through a couple and they always seem break because they don't have all the kinks worked out of them yet. But I don't use them because they're 'cool,' I use them because they're the best music players I know off. But I am eagerly awaitng either a) the next logical successor, or b) a much better MP3 player.


As for the iPod headphones, fuck those too. I've never understood why those types of headphones sell. They look like they'll fall out of your head at any given moment.

Div
03-09-2007, 11:58 AM
I like those big stereo headphones, those things rule.

ADD
03-09-2007, 12:07 PM
I like those big stereo headphones, those things rule.
:metal:

ChildrenofSodom
03-09-2007, 12:55 PM
http://www.audiogold.co.uk/catalogue/images/BIG_David_Clark_headphones.JPG

JRA
03-09-2007, 12:58 PM
I like those big stereo headphones, those things rule.

Those are good when I'm practicing drums to songs, but I wouldn't wear them in car rides or when I'm in my room.

ChildrenofSodom
03-09-2007, 01:00 PM
Those are good when I'm practicing drums to songs, but I wouldn't wear them in car rides or when I'm in my room.

I need a pair for my drumming too.......but I typically use these new things called "speakers" when I am in my car or room.

JRA
03-09-2007, 01:03 PM
I need a pair for my drumming too.......but I typically use these new things called "speakers" when I am in my car or room.

Well I meant headphone's when I'm riding in a car. But I use speakers in my room too.

ChildrenofSodom
03-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Well I meant headphone's when I'm riding in a car. But I use speakers in my room too.

of course ;)

Div
03-09-2007, 01:20 PM
room = pc speakers
car = car speakers (if its not my car then i have to listen to my friends shitty music)
on the rare occasion i have to wait somewhere for a long time ill bring headphones or my DS.

DethMaiden
03-09-2007, 01:43 PM
You know, some people buy iPods because they're easy to use and reliable, not because they're cool.

:fist: I love my iPod.

SomewhereInTime72
03-09-2007, 05:41 PM
IMO, iPods are neither easy to use nor reliable.

Creative pwns. :horns:

ChildrenofSodom
03-10-2007, 10:02 AM
I'm reading up on a bunch of anti-evolution stuff....so I can nail my bio teacher on Monday.

zgodt
03-10-2007, 10:38 AM
I'm reading up on a bunch of anti-evolution stuff....so I can nail my bio teacher on Monday.
What the fuck?

You don't believe in evolution?

Did you argue with your earth science teacher too about the earth revolving around the sun?

ChildrenofSodom
03-10-2007, 10:46 AM
What the fuck?

You don't believe in evolution?

Did you argue with your earth science teacher too about the earth revolving around the sun?

I believe in adaptation, mutation, and overall change over long periods of time (I am not a young-earth supporter) but I dont believe in speciation, leaping from species to species over time.......

DethMaiden
03-10-2007, 12:52 PM
The information I requested from the ARI (Ayn Rand Institute) arrived today, so I'm reading a bunch of pamphlets.

zgodt
03-10-2007, 01:12 PM
The information I requested from the ARI (Ayn Rand Institute) arrived today, so I'm reading a bunch of pamphlets.

:eek: That is just sick.

zgodt
03-10-2007, 01:16 PM
I believe in adaptation, mutation, and overall change over long periods of time (I am not a young-earth supporter) but I dont believe in speciation, leaping from species to species over time.......

Why not? You do realize that evolution of species is recognized as scientific truth by pretty much the entire biological sciences establishment that isn't financed by creationists... don't you?

I read a book last year called The Beak of the Finch. The scientists in that book, studying finches in the Galapagos Islands, have witnessed dramatic change over short periods of time. Speciation isn't just some mythological concept Darwin groupies cooked up -- it's evident in research done in the field.

DethMaiden
03-10-2007, 01:18 PM
:eek: That is just sick.

Sick here meaning awesome? :eyes:

zgodt
03-10-2007, 01:22 PM
Sick here meaning awesome? :eyes:

:barf:

DethMaiden
03-10-2007, 01:23 PM
:barf:

Yes, it's very fashionable to hate Objectivism and I'm sure you want to be the world's greatest humanitarian. Some of us, however, would prefer our own lives to be good before we go around fixing everyone else's.

zgodt
03-10-2007, 01:25 PM
Yes, it's very fashionable to hate Objectivism and I'm sure you want to be the world's greatest humanitarian. Some of us, however, would prefer our own lives to be good before we go around fixing everyone else's.
:lol:

"Please fasten your own oxygen mask before assisting others." I get that.

I just have the impression that Ayn Rand is kind of a tool.

ADD
03-10-2007, 01:27 PM
What's objectivism?

DethMaiden
03-10-2007, 01:28 PM
:lol:

"Please fasten your own oxygen mask before assisting others." I get that.

I just have the impression that Ayn Rand is kind of a tool.

I'm not asking you to adjust whatever your system of philosophy is, but if you've never read any of her stuff, you probably should just to see what you think. It's for some people, it's not for others.

DethMaiden
03-10-2007, 01:29 PM
What's objectivism?

Three main tenets:

1) Individualism
2) Rational self-interest
3) Capitalism

ADD
03-10-2007, 01:35 PM
Three main tenets:

1) Individualism
2) Rational self-interest
3) Capitalism
"Rational self interest" :lol:

Thanks :cool:

DethMaiden
03-10-2007, 01:36 PM
"Rational self interest" :lol:

Thanks :cool:

Well, Nietzche taught self-interest, which was doing anything that could improve your own well-being, even at the expense of the well-being of others. Objectivism teaches that whatever is within your interest but has no adverse effects on anyone or anything else, you should do.

ADD
03-10-2007, 01:51 PM
Well, Nietzche taught self-interest, which was doing anything that could improve your own well-being, even at the expense of the well-being of others. Objectivism teaches that whatever is within your interest but has no adverse effects on anyone or anything else, you should do.

Nice :cool:

ChildrenofSodom
03-10-2007, 02:03 PM
Why not? You do realize that evolution of species is recognized as scientific truth by pretty much the entire biological sciences establishment that isn't financed by creationists... don't you?

I read a book last year called The Beak of the Finch. The scientists in that book, studying finches in the Galapagos Islands, have witnessed dramatic change over short periods of time. Speciation isn't just some mythological concept Darwin groupies cooked up -- it's evident in research done in the field.

sigh....I refuse to read the creationist-antievolution pages...I read the ones that are well-educated and scientific.......And a gallup poll of a number of scientists say that they avoid questioning or re-examining the theory of macroevolution, for fear of being exiled by the scientific community......

You cant observe macroevolution today like you can adaptation (industrial melanism)....therefore it isnt proven science. Supportable, but not proven.

ChildrenofSodom
03-10-2007, 02:04 PM
Oh...and Ayn Rand owns your soul, zgodt


And Brad, how would I go about acquiring those same pieces of literature from the Ayn Rand institute?

DethMaiden
03-10-2007, 02:44 PM
Oh...and Ayn Rand owns your soul, zgodt


And Brad, how would I go about acquiring those same pieces of literature from the Ayn Rand institute?

Buy one of her books and tear the card out of the center of it and send it out(free postage).

Div
03-10-2007, 04:07 PM
sigh....I refuse to read the creationist-antievolution pages...I read the ones that are well-educated and scientific.......And a gallup poll of a number of scientists say that they avoid questioning or re-examining the theory of macroevolution, for fear of being exiled by the scientific community......

You cant observe macroevolution today like you can adaptation (industrial melanism)....therefore it isnt proven science. Supportable, but not proven.


Just ask people which is more believable, that some sort of God created us, or that rocks somehow turned into people. :lol:


----------------

When my college biology professor started teaching the "fact" that simple protiens were created in a lab experiment simulating the conditions on early earth, and I pointed out that early earth had oxygen (which wasnt included in said lab experiment) and those protiens would have oxidized into nothing, she got pretty pissed off.

that being said, most of evolution is bullshit science based on skeptisism. its pretty much a religion within itself.

Div
03-10-2007, 04:35 PM
Now reading: The Book of Thel

SomewhereInTime72
03-10-2007, 07:46 PM
Just ask people which is more believable, that some sort of God created us, or that rocks somehow turned into people. :lol:


...Who said anything about rocks? :eyes:

Div
03-10-2007, 10:03 PM
...Who said anything about rocks? :eyes:


evolutionists believe life originated from rain falling on rocks

Div
03-10-2007, 11:06 PM
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007110349,00.html



:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes: :eyes::eyes::eyes:

iggyb387
03-11-2007, 07:14 AM
Portnoy's Complaint.

Hopefully, posting that I'm reading it will remind me to actually start reading it.

zgodt
03-11-2007, 05:19 PM
Oh...and Ayn Rand owns your soul, zgodt


Or if she doesn't, she'll use any means in her power to acquire it like a good objectivist. ;)

zgodt
03-11-2007, 05:59 PM
Just ask people which is more believable, that some sort of God created us, or that rocks somehow turned into people. :lol:

Since you phrase it that way -- one type of arbitrary magic versus another -- I guess it's fifty-fifty. Why is a magic ghost in the sky more plausible than wet rocks suddenly getting up and doing the mambo?

Not to mention that God supposedly made Adam out of clay -- so either way, we're all just wet rocks that something happened to.

But since there's a pretty detailed fossil record that shows (for example) that there were homo habilis before there were homo erectus, but not after; and that there were homo erectus before there were homo sapiens, but not after; and since there's a definite line of descent among species that can be and has been traced through comparative analysis of DNA -- which shows (for instance) that we are much more closely related biologically to chimpanzees than we are to dolphins or elephants, even though dolphins and elephants are also highly intelligent -- then it's pretty silly to say evolution is self-evidently absurd. And since the evidence for the other side is what some book says that some dudes wrote 3 or 4 thousand years ago -- long after all those fossils were in the earth, but long before anyone knew where to find them or what they meant -- then I think you may be experiencing some confusion about the distinction between science and religion.

that being said, most of evolution is bullshit science based on skeptisism. its pretty much a religion within itself.

See above. If you think evolution is bullshit science and/or "pretty much a religion," then you simply don't understand what science is or how it differs from religion.

zgodt
03-11-2007, 06:06 PM
sigh....I refuse to read the creationist-antievolution pages...I read the ones that are well-educated and scientific.......And a gallup poll of a number of scientists say that they avoid questioning or re-examining the theory of macroevolution, for fear of being exiled by the scientific community......

You cant observe macroevolution today like you can adaptation (industrial melanism)....therefore it isnt proven science. Supportable, but not proven.
Okay. Prove gravity. Prove that it really isn't just god shoving us back against the ground every time we jump.

Scientific knowledge comes from drawing the best possible conclusions from the best possible evidence. A lot of what we know isn't "proven" in a laboratory, and doesn't have to be. It's a matter of looking at what facts there be, and determining what explanation accounts for all of them. No alternative explanation accounts for all the facts nearly as well as evolution does, and many accepted theories in other parts of science don't account for all the facts as well as evolution does for the observable facts of biology.

DethMaiden
03-11-2007, 06:47 PM
Or if she doesn't, she'll use any means in her power to acquire it like a good objectivist. ;)

:party:

Div
03-11-2007, 06:57 PM
Since you phrase it that way -- one type of arbitrary magic versus another -- I guess it's fifty-fifty. Why is a magic ghost in the sky more plausible than wet rocks suddenly getting up and doing the mambo?

Not to mention that God supposedly made Adam out of clay -- so either way, we're all just wet rocks that something happened to.

But since there's a pretty detailed fossil record that shows (for example) that there were homo habilis before there were homo erectus, but not after; and that there were homo erectus before there were homo sapiens, but not after; and since there's a definite line of descent among species that can be and has been traced through comparative analysis of DNA -- which shows (for instance) that we are much more closely related biologically to chimpanzees than we are to dolphins or elephants, even though dolphins and elephants are also highly intelligent -- then it's pretty silly to say evolution is self-evidently absurd. And since the evidence for the other side is what some book says that some dudes wrote 3 or 4 thousand years ago -- long after all those fossils were in the earth, but long before anyone knew where to find them or what they meant -- then I think you may be experiencing some confusion about the distinction between science and religion.



See above. If you think evolution is bullshit science and/or "pretty much a religion," then you simply don't understand what science is or how it differs from religion.


the thing is, i know exactly what science is, and ive yet to see real evidence that doesnt require a leap of faith to make me believe a rock can turn into a form of life and all you have to do is add water. the evolutionist uses time to fill in for anything they cant explain, which isnt scientific fact at all, just skeptisism.

im not biased to either side, but if im told to believe something i need to see the proof. similarities in bone structures and dna dont prove cross species evolution, which is nothing more then a theory sense it has never been observed. honestly i dont think there will ever be enough evidence to either prove the bible or evolution, but a theory shouldnt be taught as fact.

zgodt
03-11-2007, 07:08 PM
the thing is, i know exactly what science is, and ive yet to see real evidence that doesnt require a leap of faith to make me believe a rock can turn into a form of life and all you have to do is add water. the evolutionist uses time to fill in for anything they cant explain, which isnt scientific fact at all, just skeptisism.

im not biased to either side, but if im told to believe something i need to see the proof. similarities in bone structures and dna dont prove cross species evolution, which is nothing more then a theory sense it has never been observed. honestly i dont think there will ever be enough evidence to either prove the bible or evolution, but a theory shouldnt be taught as fact.

No one in their right mind says all you have to do is add water to a rock and voila, there's life. You're obviously exaggerating to make a point. And the point that scientists still don't really have a fucking clue how life actually started on this planet is valid. But it's not an invalidation of evolutionary theory. Whether you think that some weird and fortuitous chemical reaction produced the first single-celled organism (which -- given the billions of galaxies in the universe, each with billions of stars and planets upon which who knows how many chemical reactions have taken place over billions of years -- doesn't seem that crazy from a statistical standpoint) or if you think divine intervention produced it, the biological record still shows pretty conclusively that complex organisms evolved from simpler ones, and that we didn't just wander fully formed out of a garden with domesticated cattle and sheep at our heels.

Div
03-11-2007, 11:22 PM
No one in their right mind says all you have to do is add water to a rock and voila, there's life. You're obviously exaggerating to make a point. And the point that scientists still don't really have a fucking clue how life actually started on this planet is valid. But it's not an invalidation of evolutionary theory. Whether you think that some weird and fortuitous chemical reaction produced the first single-celled organism (which -- given the billions of galaxies in the universe, each with billions of stars and planets upon which who knows how many chemical reactions have taken place over billions of years -- doesn't seem that crazy from a statistical standpoint) or if you think divine intervention produced it, the biological record still shows pretty conclusively that complex organisms evolved from simpler ones, and that we didn't just wander fully formed out of a garden with domesticated cattle and sheep at our heels.


That's an interesting point you make about the other planets in the universe. If it's true that the universe is infinite (which I believe, because if it had a finite size light would wrap around the edges and create a mirror effect, and no astronomer has ever seen this) then it would be mathematically impossible for there to not be other planets with life. Provided the process can begin without divine intervention.

zgodt
03-11-2007, 11:25 PM
That's an interesting point you make about the other planets in the universe. If it's true that the universe is infinite (which I believe, because if it had a finite size light would wrap around the edges and create a mirror effect, and no astronomer has ever seen this) then it would be mathematically impossible for there to not be other planets with life. Provided the process can begin without divine intervention.

:drinking: :)

zgodt
03-11-2007, 11:28 PM
The Cultural Politics of Cosimo I de Medici

:bliss:

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 12:16 PM
Okay. Prove gravity. Prove that it really isn't just god shoving us back against the ground every time we jump.

Scientific knowledge comes from drawing the best possible conclusions from the best possible evidence. A lot of what we know isn't "proven" in a laboratory, and doesn't have to be. It's a matter of looking at what facts there be, and determining what explanation accounts for all of them. No alternative explanation accounts for all the facts nearly as well as evolution does, and many accepted theories in other parts of science don't account for all the facts as well as evolution does for the observable facts of biology.

I know how gravity works....but who is to say that God isnt the who/how and gravity is the what?

The best explanation may not always be the right one...many theories have been viewed as the best explanation, only to be disproven later.......I am not saying evolution isnt possible, but to say it IS the answer, is religion......and when it comes to faith, I would rather believe in a God that can grant me everlasting life and happiness then a theory that we evolved over millions of years purely by chance.

A law is something that can be observed in nature......no one has ever observed one species becoming another species.....until that happens, I will look at the theory critically and with skepticim. There are too many holes in the presentation of industrial melanism, the fossil records, the theory of vestigal organs, and speciation for the theory of evolution to be forced down the throats of our children.

DethMaiden
03-12-2007, 12:21 PM
I know how gravity works....but who is to say that God isnt the who/how and gravity is the what?


Then he spends way too much time bringing things that go up down and not enough time stopping war.

kthxbi.

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 12:25 PM
Also.......evolutionists and big bang theorists discredit Creationists ( I dont entirely believe in the Eden story, myself) they say that it is illogical to say that God (not just some ghost in the sky, you bigot) just snapped his finger and everything was made......But if you think about it.......The theory that swirling gases in the blackness spontaneously combusted and formed life (though there is a LAW that says life cannot come from nonlife) just by chance.....isnt that just as crazy? And no one has explained how those gases came about in the first place.....

Or that just by chance some organism developed a helpful mutation, and some how knew how to use that mutation for the better......Such as...if a fish was born with some primitive lungs (by chance), how would they survive in the water, and if they did somehow survived in the water (with lungs), how did they know to go onto land? And even if they could breathe, the rest of their body wouldnt be suitable for land life....so it would take a substantial amount of time for that fishes offspring (if it had any, which is doubtful) to develop legs or another organs to survive on land.....That chance is so very unlikely......

And I thought I learned that mutations couldnt be passed through gametes, so then how could the new mutations be passed on to offspring?

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 12:27 PM
Then he spends way too much time bringing things that go up down and not enough time stopping war.

kthxbi.

omigod...not that shit again.....Man causes war with man.....get that through your fucking head.......WAR IS BAD, OKAY....BUT SAYING THAT THE EXISTENCE OF WAR IS PROOF OF THE ABSENCE OF GOD IS JUST ABSURD!! Blame man for war...not God.

And war isnt even a scientific law...so your comment is invalid...

:eyes:

zgodt
03-12-2007, 12:40 PM
I know how gravity works....but who is to say that God isnt the who/how and gravity is the what?

The best explanation may not always be the right one...many theories have been viewed as the best explanation, only to be disproven later.......I am not saying evolution isnt possible, but to say it IS the answer, is religion......and when it comes to faith, I would rather believe in a God that can grant me everlasting life and happiness then a theory that we evolved over millions of years purely by chance.

A law is something that can be observed in nature......no one has ever observed one species becoming another species.....until that happens, I will look at the theory critically and with skepticim. There are too many holes in the presentation of industrial melanism, the fossil records, the theory of vestigal organs, and speciation for the theory of evolution to be forced down the throats of our children.
On gravity -- that's exactly my point. There's no problem with you believing that gravity is caused by God. That may be reasonable and it may be true. But it sure as hell isn't science.

Yes, scientific progress means that theories get disproven regularly -- when better science comes along. Not when people simply decide they'd prefer to believe something else. Again, you can prefer to believe something else, and you may even be right -- but it isn't science.

No one ever observed a T Rex eating a Triceratops either, but scientists know it happened. Obviously, scientific observation can be indirect.

You should look at the theory critically and with skepticism. Of course you should. In fact, that's what good scientists always do, and have done ever since Darwin wrote The Origin of Species. I mean, it's not like people instantly embraced his conclusions; people dismissed him as preposterous! He didn't even publish his findings for over a decade because he was terrified of how people would react. But after continual reexaminations of the evidence over the past century, scientists have -- through their skeptical, critical assessment of the evidence -- come to conclude that he basically had it right.

DethMaiden
03-12-2007, 12:42 PM
omigod...not that shit again.....Man causes war with man.....get that through your fucking head.......WAR IS BAD, OKAY....BUT SAYING THAT THE EXISTENCE OF WAR IS PROOF OF THE ABSENCE OF GOD IS JUST ABSURD!! Blame man for war...not God.

And war isnt even a scientific law...so your comment is invalid...

:eyes:

I'm not saying I don't believe in God, because I'm pretty sure I do. I'm saying Christianity is usually annoying because it tries to justify things that it has no right to justify. Keep religion and science separate. If it's taught as science, it's science. There is no conspiracy to keep God down, they're just teaching what has been, through testing, considered most likely true. Christianity doesn't research what it says, it just says it.

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 12:48 PM
I'm not saying I don't believe in God, because I'm pretty sure I do. I'm saying Christianity is usually annoying because it tries to justify things that it has no right to justify. Keep religion and science separate. If it's taught as science, it's science. There is no conspiracy to keep God down, they're just teaching what has been, through testing, considered most likely true. Christianity doesn't research what it says, it just says it.

I dont think religion should be taught either....But I am saying....science should taught....but the theory of evolution has too many holes in it to be taught as fact..it should be presented as a possible explanation, not pure fact....thats all I'm saying.

DethMaiden
03-12-2007, 12:48 PM
I dont think religion should be taught either....But I am saying....science should taught....but the theory of evolution has too many holes in it to be taught as fact..it should be presented as a possible explanation, not pure fact....thats all I'm saying.

Fair enough.

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 12:51 PM
On gravity -- that's exactly my point. There's no problem with you believing that gravity is caused by God. That may be reasonable and it may be true. But it sure as hell isn't science.

Yes, scientific progress means that theories get disproven regularly -- when better science comes along. Not when people simply decide they'd prefer to believe something else. Again, you can prefer to believe something else, and you may even be right -- but it isn't science.

No one ever observed a T Rex eating a Triceratops either, but scientists know it happened. Obviously, scientific observation can be indirect.

You should look at the theory critically and with skepticism. Of course you should. In fact, that's what good scientists always do, and have done ever since Darwin wrote The Origin of Species. I mean, it's not like people instantly embraced his conclusions; people dismissed him as preposterous! He didn't even publish his findings for over a decade because he was terrified of how people would react. But after continual reexaminations of the evidence over the past century, scientists have -- through their skeptical, critical assessment of the evidence -- come to conclude that he basically had it right.


GRAVITY IS SCIENCE!!!!! OKAY??? I am not saying it isnt science....I belive most of the explanation as to how things happen.....but there is no explanation as to why!! I am not saying God is physically pushing every single object down and it is called gravity...that is Dark Ages science.....but I cant grasp the idea that things just happen by chance.......thats if faith..to say things just happen....


I cant even think right now, to formulate the right words to explain or comprehend your sense of closemindedness and bigotry, when you say that "gravity is science, we can explain it, God does not exist." Your view of Christianity and religion as a whole just as "I dont know how it works, so God did it" is so outdated and idiotic.....No one believes that in the civilized world anymore. Today's Christian can accept the explanation of science, of gravity, of weather, of adaptation, of erosion, of nuclear physics, etc and still put some faith in a higher being....there is no harm in it....Like I said...the educated Christian can say that the "Occurence" is the what, Science is the how, and God is the why....a theory that can neither be proven entirely or disproven entirely...JUST LIKE MACROEVOLUTION!

zgodt
03-12-2007, 02:28 PM
GRAVITY IS SCIENCE!!!!! OKAY??? I am not saying it isnt science....I belive most of the explanation as to how things happen.....but there is no explanation as to why!! I am not saying God is physically pushing every single object down and it is called gravity...that is Dark Ages science.....but I cant grasp the idea that things just happen by chance.......thats if faith..to say things just happen....


I cant even think right now, to formulate the right words to explain or comprehend your sense of closemindedness and bigotry, when you say that "gravity is science, we can explain it, God does not exist." Your view of Christianity and religion as a whole just as "I dont know how it works, so God did it" is so outdated and idiotic.....No one believes that in the civilized world anymore. Today's Christian can accept the explanation of science, of gravity, of weather, of adaptation, of erosion, of nuclear physics, etc and still put some faith in a higher being....there is no harm in it....Like I said...the educated Christian can say that the "Occurence" is the what, Science is the how, and God is the why....a theory that can neither be proven entirely or disproven entirely...JUST LIKE MACROEVOLUTION!
Dude. Calm down. Where do you get closemindedness and bigotry out of what I'm saying?

I never said there is no God. I don't know if there is or there isn't. Frankly it has nothing whatsoever to do with our discussion. It's not a scientific question. That's not to say it's not a valid question, okay? And I never said you are wrong to think there's a god in the world, or that he's responsible for what's happened. I mean, what's wrong with (for instance) the idea that God sparked some inert matter into life aeons ago using a precise mechanism that would unfold logically over time into us? You can believe that if you wish, and square that belief with the facts that science has revealed. Science will never prove there is no god, and it will never prove there is a god -- because the question of God is simply not subject to proof, observation, or empirical assessment. Okay? In this way the question of God is fundamentally different from the question of whether human beings descended from apes (or birds descended from dinosaurs, or whatever). Because we can check the fossil record and DNA maps for evidence that supports or refutes the theory. God isn't a theory. It's a belief. They aren't at all the same. To point this out is not bigotry -- surely you can understand that?!?

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a dick here. Why are you calling me a bigot?

EvilCheeseWedge
03-12-2007, 02:32 PM
when you say that "gravity is science, we can explain it, God does not exist."

EvilCheeseWedge's Lesson of the Day (tm): When you use quotation marks " " you are relating to us the words of what somebody else has said. It is usually to wise to put words that the person being quoted actually said in between those quotation marks.

Tomorrow's lesson will be on drawing conclusions. Wednesday we'll learn why calling people "bigots" without backing it up does nothing to strengthen an argument.

Stay tuned :)

JRA
03-12-2007, 02:35 PM
EvilCheeseWedge's Lesson of the Day (tm): When you use quotation marks " " you are relating to us the words of what somebody else has said. It is usually to wise to put words that the person being quoted actually said in between those quotation marks.

Tomorrow's lesson will be on drawing conclusions. Wednesday we'll learn why calling people "bigots" without backing it up does nothing to strengthen an argument.

Stay tuned :)

Oo! Oo! Can Thursday's lesson be why not to bang a chick while she's on the rag if you faint at the sight of blood?

EvilCheeseWedge
03-12-2007, 02:36 PM
Oo! Oo! Can Thursday's lesson be why not to bang a chick while she's on the rag if you faint at the sight of blood?
I haven't prepared my lesson plan that far ahead, but I don't see why not :lol:

zgodt
03-12-2007, 02:39 PM
I dont think religion should be taught either....But I am saying....science should taught....but the theory of evolution has too many holes in it to be taught as fact..it should be presented as a possible explanation, not pure fact....thats all I'm saying.

What holes?

It's not "a possible explanation," it's the only available explanation that doesn't rely on non-scientific conjectures or mythology*.

"Pure fact" is unreasonably absolutist. It should be presented as the best available scientific explanation for the facts we can observe. It shouldn't be supplemented with so-called "alternatives" that are derived from non-science. Intelligent design may be perfectly acceptable as theology or philosophy; and it may even be true. But it can't, for example, help researchers develop new medicines; however, a proper understanding of evolutionary biology can.

(*mythology not meaning "untrue" but in the academic sense of inherited stories used by a people to explain their world.)

SomewhereInTime72
03-12-2007, 04:42 PM
A law is something that can be observed in nature......no one has ever observed one species becoming another species.....until that happens, I will look at the theory critically and with skepticim. There are too many holes in the presentation of industrial melanism, the fossil records, the theory of vestigal organs, and speciation for the theory of evolution to be forced down the throats of our children.

Um. People define what a species is. As humans, we decide which mutations make one species different then another. So, the only reason that the observation of speciation may or may not exist is if we choose to accept certain structural changes as becoming a new species.

..And you know what... here : http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

I've kept quiet this whole time, but I'll just say there's a hell of a lot more holes in your argument then there are in the theory of evolution. :)

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 05:58 PM
I'm not telling anyone to believe in my ideas. I am asking everyone to keep their minds open, and realize that the theory of evolution is not entirely sound, and shouldn't be taught like it is....We are just sheeple when we believe every word a scientist says, just because they are a scientist.....I believe that in this country, we need to look at scientific claims like we look at a foreign policy or a bill; with more scrutiny and skepticism.

And on the matter of bigotry and closemindedness.....

.
On gravity -- that's exactly my point. There's no problem with you believing that gravity is caused by God. That may be reasonable and it may be true. But it sure as hell isn't science


That made it seem like you were discrediting my beliefs/ideas just because they arent science. For some reason, in my head maybe, it sounds like you offer religion as a possibility, but it is somehow less plausible because it isnt in the elite realm of 'science.'

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 06:09 PM
..And you know what... here : http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

I've kept quiet this whole time, but I'll just say there's a hell of a lot more holes in your argument then there are in the theory of evolution. :)

Do you really think a site explaining and providing evidence for evolution will provide the explanation for the holes in the theory? No....thats like the Vatican explaining Catholicism, and then telling you how to be a sinner or atheist.

You have to look for the opposing views....I had a few good links...if I find them again I will post them......

Bouville
03-12-2007, 06:09 PM
As a scholar professionally devoted to the study of social evolution and with a fair acquaintance of Darwinian evolution I must say I am completely appalled by the lack of knowledge about key facts that any person who wants to engage into a debate about evolution should know. Also the total misunderstanding of the concept of science bothers me and worries me deeply. I do not know where to begin with… this concerns me as a scholar as a social scientist.

Science is a cumulative endeavor that has broad chronological frameworks. To accuse science of not having the answers in a particular time is just silly. What cannot be explained or addressed in an efficient or convincing matter now, will be in the future. It is completely silly to pretend to equal beliefs or faith with empirically tested knowledge. There is an epistemology inherent in any scientific endeavor and for that matter Darwinian evolution is a component of that big spectrum of knowledge that can be labeled as Science. There is no epistemology in Theology there is ontology but no epistemology and it is totally irrationally to pretend to compare and antagonize two entities that do not share a common ground in the way they logically and formally operate.

And just for the record, do not make me start with the archaeological record that exists about the process of human evolution. I do not have to remind you all that I am a professional archaeologist and if anybody wants to dispute archaeological evidence with me… it can be pretty ugly.

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 06:17 PM
ALL HAIL TO SCIENCE!!! SCIENCE H. LOGIC HELP US!!!! SCIENCE BLESS US ALL!!

On that note, I have no problem with science...I would love to delve deeper and expand my knowledge in the scientific field.....but the fact of the matter is.......There are holes in the theory of evolution (transitional fossils, for one) that science either CANT explain or hasnt explained yet. If in the future, science explains these things, then I will sit on my hands and accept the theory....

The fact of the matter is...microevolution is real, Darwin hit the nail on the head, species do adapt to their surrounding, that is observable and is thus a fact......Macroevolution isnt entirely proven....I believe in the realm of science, for a theory to be validated or invalidated, a scientist must submit a claim or theory, his peers review it, they point out the proven/observable/testable aspects (which the entire scientific community did with evolution), and then when someone points out a flaw, the scientists must then address these issues. In all the things I have read, I only see Creationists calling scientists heretics, and scientists calling Creationists moron. Some middle ground must be met, where certain ideas are held as facts, and other questionable aspects are tested further and explained.....The issue has become too polarized

EvilCheeseWedge
03-12-2007, 06:26 PM
ALL HAIL TO SCIENCE!!! SCIENCE H. LOGIC HELP US!!!! SCIENCE BLESS US ALL!!

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 06:28 PM
Drugs are bad, m'kay?

"Beware Time Child; I will crack your head like a clam on my tummy!"

SomewhereInTime72
03-12-2007, 06:33 PM
Do you really think a site explaining and providing evidence for evolution will provide the explanation for the holes in the theory? No....thats like the Vatican explaining Catholicism, and then telling you how to be a sinner or atheist.

You have to look for the opposing views....I had a few good links...if I find them again I will post them......

So you didn't read it.

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 06:38 PM
So you didn't read it.

I'm done arguing whether evolution is true or not......For one, it is against the law. Secondly, everyone is missing my whole point...which isnt to disprove all of science, but to encourage more critical looks at the theory of evolution.

I'm done. Shouldnt have ever brought it up...no one understands what I am trying to get at, so its pointless..

I am currently reading 1984 by George Orwell and trying to finish Dante's Inferno.

Bouville
03-12-2007, 06:40 PM
Just to clarify one thing, there are four elements that can induce descent with modification.

Drift
Mutation
Migration
Adaptation

As you all can see, adaptation is just one element on the general picture.

Bouville
03-12-2007, 06:47 PM
I'm done arguing whether evolution is true or not......For one, it is against the law. Secondly, everyone is missing my whole point...which isnt to disprove all of science, but to encourage more critical looks at the theory of evolution.

I'm done. Shouldnt have ever brought it up...no one understands what I am trying to get at, so its pointless..

I am currently reading 1984 by George Orwell and trying to finish Dante's Inferno.

If you want to engage into this type of arguments, you must be much better prepared and informed.

What puzzles me is that even thought one of the most conservative entities, the Roman Catholic Church has acknowledged that evolution is a solid scientific theory, most people refuse to concede that.

Bouville
03-12-2007, 06:48 PM
So, to keep this on topic

3D Geometrical modeling of excavation units at the archaeological site of Tell' Acharneh (Syria) by L.M Losier et al

SomewhereInTime72
03-12-2007, 06:49 PM
I'm done arguing whether evolution is true or not......For one, it is against the law. Secondly, everyone is missing my whole point...which isnt to disprove all of science, but to encourage more critical looks at the theory of evolution.

I'm done. Shouldnt have ever brought it up...no one understands what I am trying to get at, so its pointless..

I am currently reading 1984 by George Orwell and trying to finish Dante's Inferno.

I get what you're trying to say, but my problem is that you're poking your fingers through certain holes in the theory that don't exist. Also, I take it to mean that you really didn't read what I posted, and probably didn't even click it. :)

Listen to Christian, he's smart. ;)

Anyway back on track I'm reading Stephen King's Christine.

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 06:49 PM
I think if someone sat down with me and explained this, I would understand evolution a little bit better:

Or that just by chance some organism developed a helpful mutation, and some how knew how to use that mutation for the better......Such as...if a fish was born with some primitive lungs (by chance), how would they survive in the water, and if they did somehow survived in the water (with lungs), how did they know to go onto land? And even if they could breathe, the rest of their body wouldnt be suitable for land life....so it would take a substantial amount of time for that fishes offspring (if it had any, which is doubtful) to develop legs or another organs to survive on land.....That chance is so very unlikely......

And I thought I learned that mutations couldnt be passed through gametes, so then how could the new mutations be passed on to offspring?

JRA
03-12-2007, 06:49 PM
As a scholar professionally devoted to the study of social evolution and with a fair acquaintance of Darwinian evolution I must say I am completely appalled by the lack of knowledge about key facts that any person who wants to engage into a debate about evolution should know. Also the total misunderstanding of the concept of science bothers me and worries me deeply. I do not know where to begin with… this concerns me as a scholar as a social scientist.

Science is a cumulative endeavor that has broad chronological frameworks. To accuse science of not having the answers in a particular time is just silly. What cannot be explained or addressed in an efficient or convincing matter now, will be in the future. It is completely silly to pretend to equal beliefs or faith with empirically tested knowledge. There is an epistemology inherent in any scientific endeavor and for that matter Darwinian evolution is a component of that big spectrum of knowledge that can be labeled as Science. There is no epistemology in Theology there is ontology but no epistemology and it is totally irrationally to pretend to compare and antagonize two entities that do not share a common ground in the way they logically and formally operate.

And just for the record, do not make me start with the archaeological record that exists about the process of human evolution. I do not have to remind you all that I am a professional archaeologist and if anybody wants to dispute archaeological evidence with me… it can be pretty ugly.


BOOYAH, BITCH! BOOYAH!

JRA
03-12-2007, 06:50 PM
I'm done arguing whether evolution is true or not......For one, it is against the law.


OMG ILLILGAL!

ChildrenofSodom
03-12-2007, 06:51 PM
I get what you're trying to say, but my problem is that you're poking your fingers through certain holes in the theory that don't exist. Also, I take it to mean that you really didn't read what I posted, and probably didn't even click it. :)

Listen to Christian, he's smart. ;)

Anyway back on track I'm reading Stephen King's Christine.

The holes I refer to are missing transitional fossils, the myth of vestigial organs, the existence of intact trees that span between multiple layers of sediment, life from nonlife, etc......

But that is off topic....

Div
03-12-2007, 07:56 PM
So, to keep this on topic

3D Geometrical modeling of excavation units at the archaeological site of Tell' Acharneh (Syria) by L.M Losier et al


Sounds fun, do you dig it?




Hahaha, get it, dig, archaeologist, oh man im fucking hilarious.

zgodt
03-12-2007, 08:47 PM
I think if someone sat down with me and explained this, I would understand evolution a little bit better:
If you're honestly curious, try poking around at this site. It's full of clear and thoughtful analysis and arranged to answer exactly the kinds of questions you are asking.

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/index.html

In particular, you might be interested in this page:

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/biology.html

It acknowledges the exact question you've asked, but sadly doesn't (yet?) have an active link to answer it. But it does answer questions like "how could an eye evolve?" and "how could sex evolve?"


Edit: If you google "How could a lung evolve on a fish?" you'll get some results that explain some scenarios. Not fantastic sites, from what I can see (e.g., there are typos and bad formatting and shit), but at least you can get an idea of why it's not "so very unlikely" as you might otherwise believe.

zgodt
03-12-2007, 08:56 PM
Nancy Drew Mystery # 51: The Mystery of the Glowing Eye by Carolyn Keene

The Cultural World of Eleonora di Toledo, ed. by Konrad Eisenbichler

EvilCheeseWedge
03-12-2007, 11:11 PM
Nancy Drew Mystery # 51: The Mystery of the Glowing Eye by Carolyn Keene


:eyes:

I actually started up Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy the other week. I haven't read that in a very long time.

I just finished Maus I and Maus II by Art Spiegelman. I haven't read a graphic novel before, but I have to say, those two books were amazing. I still can't quite figure out how to process them.

ChildrenofSodom
03-13-2007, 03:53 AM
Thank you zgodt

Angelripper
03-13-2007, 06:01 AM
Well, I read the new Harry Potter book and it's absolute awesomeness. The ending is absolutely unexpected and twisted. I felt like crying after reading the last page, and the last few lines made me crap my pants with grief.

Absolutely stupendous.

And if you're asking how I got it, my uncle is one of the editors.

Angelripper
03-13-2007, 06:05 AM
The heck is wrong with you intellectual people.

Studying for fun...

JRA
03-13-2007, 06:44 AM
:eyes:

I just finished Maus I and Maus II by Art Spiegelman. I haven't read a graphic novel before, but I have to say, those two books were amazing. I still can't quite figure out how to process them.

I can't remember if I had to read both of those or just Maus I for a Holocaust class in college. But that book is still the shit! :fist:

zgodt
03-13-2007, 09:34 AM
:eyes:
Beware the Cyclops!!! :bouville:

Actually, my daughter's on a huge Nancy Drew kick and I'm trying somewhat to read along.
I just finished Maus I and Maus II by Art Spiegelman. I haven't read a graphic novel before, but I have to say, those two books were amazing. I still can't quite figure out how to process them.
I haven't read those, but if you're interested in "amazing" graphic novels, you should check out The Watchmen.

zgodt
03-13-2007, 09:36 AM
Thank you zgodt

:metal:

EvilCheeseWedge
03-13-2007, 11:23 AM
Beware the Cyclops!!! :bouville:

Actually, my daughter's on a huge Nancy Drew kick and I'm trying somewhat to read along.

I haven't read those, but if you're interested in "amazing" graphic novels, you should check out The Watchmen.

Excuses, excuses :hmm:

Hmm, I haven't heard of that. I will check it out though.

ADD
03-13-2007, 01:04 PM
[QUOTE=Angelripper;148091]The heck is wrong with you intellectual people.

QUOTE]

I don't see anything strikingly intellectual here, just a bunch of random rants and stuff they took from some books and shit :eyes: It wasn't even that entertaining following that whole argument, civil educated arguments are meant for real life not online metal boards, I want some flaming and name-calling dammit! :flame:

ChildrenofSodom
03-13-2007, 01:12 PM
civil educated arguments are meant for real life not online metal boards, I want some flaming and name-calling dammit! :flame:

Shut up assclown!

ADD
03-13-2007, 01:16 PM
Shut up assclown!
:party: Except your insults usually don't entertain too much, ECW is too civil and politically correct, npjr. is good sometimes, but Brady pwns all in terms of insults on here, those are the only times I ever actually laugh out loud sometimes when reading these. I don't really do such good insults myself, gotta up my game to get up with you genius :dorky:

ChildrenofSodom
03-13-2007, 01:37 PM
:party: Except your insults usually don't entertain too much, ECW is too civil and politically correct, npjr. is good sometimes, but Brady pwns all in terms of insults on here, those are the only times I ever actually laugh out loud sometimes when reading these. I don't really do such good insults myself, gotta up my game to get up with you genius :dorky:

STFU

EvilCheeseWedge
03-13-2007, 02:49 PM
ECW is too civil and politically correct

I will work on this.

Chicken fucker :)

ADD
03-13-2007, 04:53 PM
I will work on this.

Chicken fucker :)
So random :lol:

ADD
03-13-2007, 04:53 PM
STFU
See what I mean? The imagination of a fruitfly.

ChildrenofSodom
03-13-2007, 06:19 PM
See what I mean? The imagination of a fruitfly.

Are you kidding? You are a fuckface.....

SomewhereInTime72
03-13-2007, 06:47 PM
I will work on this.

Chicken fucker :)

:lol: :lol: :lol:



You should all shut the fuck up and eat my dick you slut-pissing shit-rapers.

zgodt
03-19-2007, 09:42 PM
Fire in the City: Savonarola and the Struggle for the Soul of Renaissance Florence by Lauro Martines :rocker:

overkiller
03-20-2007, 02:41 AM
I finally read Choosing Death while I was in Norway. The writing wasn't exactly the best, but the information was totally kickass and I feel like I know a decent amount more about DM and grindcore.

SomewhereInTime72
03-20-2007, 06:25 AM
I'm gonna start reading For Whom The Bell Tolls now. Also I'm reading Against All Enemies by Richard Clarke for school.

ChildrenofSodom
03-20-2007, 12:09 PM
I am still reading 1984 and finishing Dante's Inferno.....after 1984, and during Spring Break, I am going to start Beowulf and The Dante Club

I read the former when I was in 8th grade, but I dont know if my junior high school mind could comprehend all the metal epicity. :fist:

Hear me! We've heard of Danish heroes, ancient kings and the glory they cut for themselves, swinging mighty swords!

DethMaiden
03-20-2007, 01:20 PM
The Fountainhead.

It's not as good as Atlas Shrugged but still owns pretty hard.

EvilCheeseWedge
03-20-2007, 01:51 PM
The Fountainhead.

It's not as good as Atlas Shrugged but still owns pretty hard.

:(

DethMaiden
03-20-2007, 02:13 PM
:(

:eyes:

Bouville
03-21-2007, 01:13 PM
Interpreting archaeology with Hindsight: the use of three dimensions in graphic recording and site analysis - Bryan Alvey

overkiller
03-23-2007, 05:11 PM
Nietzsche - The Anti-Christ. Cliche metal fan reading, check.

Bouville
03-24-2007, 10:33 AM
http://tfqa.com/doc/boone.htm

Bouville
03-24-2007, 10:34 AM
Nietzsche - The Anti-Christ. Cliche metal fan reading, check.

Being there, done that :allan:

ChildrenofSodom
03-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Nietzsche - The Anti-Christ. Cliche metal fan reading, check.

Cliche Nazi idealism reading, check.

overkiller
03-24-2007, 12:22 PM
Cliche Nazi idealism reading, check.

LOL. You fool.

overkiller
03-24-2007, 12:23 PM
Being there, done that :allan:

Yes, I imagine you were around for the original 1895 publication, right? ;)

powerslave_85
03-24-2007, 12:38 PM
Cliche Nazi idealism reading, check.
HAHAHA. You're fucking kidding me, right?

DethMaiden
03-24-2007, 12:50 PM
Cliche Nazi idealism reading, check.

Yeah, umm...I don't agree with Nietzsche, but Hitler twisted his philosophy to fit Nazism, not the other way around.

Bouville
03-24-2007, 02:05 PM
Yes, I imagine you were around for the original 1895 publication, right? ;)

That was Pavo you idiot :eyes:

Bouville
03-24-2007, 02:05 PM
Cliche Nazi idealism reading, check.

Please, tell me you are not serious.

ADD
03-24-2007, 02:14 PM
Cliche Nazi idealism reading, check.
Someone just ban him forever, please.

Bouville
03-24-2007, 03:24 PM
Someone just ban him forever, please.

If any of the mods do that, we will be forced to do the same with you... your call :allan:

Div
03-24-2007, 05:35 PM
Cmon ADD take one for the team :cool:

SomewhereInTime72
03-24-2007, 05:50 PM
Cmon ADD take one for the team :cool:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bouville
03-24-2007, 05:51 PM
Cmon ADD take one for the team :cool:

Should we have a poll? :allan:

ADD
03-24-2007, 06:00 PM
:D

Bouville
03-24-2007, 06:01 PM
:D

So do you agree? I just have to press enter and you will be banned forever... :allan:

ADD
03-24-2007, 06:03 PM
So do you agree? I just have to press enter and you will be banned forever... :allan:
I wouldn't mine as long as CoS was gone too :D

DethMaiden
03-24-2007, 06:05 PM
I wouldn't mine as long as CoS was gone too :D

:lol: You won't be here to know...

Bouville
03-24-2007, 06:09 PM
It is already done :allan:

Now to keep on topic

Defining and Measuring Midden Catchment - James Boone

Bouville
03-24-2007, 06:29 PM
That should teach him :allan:

ADD
03-24-2007, 06:32 PM
You are just mad because I pwned you in the other thread :party:

Bouville
03-24-2007, 06:33 PM
You are just mad because I pwned you in the other thread :party:

Which one? :confused:

You are so full of shit...I could ban you again :allan:

ADD
03-24-2007, 06:35 PM
Which one? :confused:

You are so full of shit...I could ban you again :allan:
What Are You Doing Now thread :cool:

Bouville
03-24-2007, 06:37 PM
What Are You Doing Now thread :cool:

You really should clarify your definitions and get a sense of reality...poor misguided whiny teenager...

Wait a minute... that sounds like good material for my signature..."poor misguided whiny teenager" :party:

ADD
03-24-2007, 06:38 PM
You really should clarify your definitions and get a sense of reality...poor misguided whiny teenager...

Wait a minute... that sounds like good material for my signature..."poor misguided whiny teenager" :party:
Nope I win :allan:

Bouville
03-24-2007, 06:41 PM
Nope I win :allan:

Whatever makes you happy :allan:

To keep this on topic

Introductory Statistics with R - Peter Dalgaard

Div
03-27-2007, 06:02 PM
The Penny Arcade guys never cease to entertain me. :lol:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070326.jpg

zgodt
03-27-2007, 06:19 PM
Fire in the City: Savonarola and the Struggle for the Soul of Renaissance Florence by Lauro Martines :rocker:

I've almost finished. In the last few chapters, I've read about:
* a trial-by-fire challenge where two priests would walk through about 30 yards of blazing timber and whoever emerged alive would prove to have God's protection -- which didn't actually take place because the priest who first made the challenge was too much of a pussy to show up;
* a huge public riot and siege of a church/convent, with both the mob outside and the priests inside armed with artillery and crossbows and halberds and battle axes and all kinds of shit;
* a civic leader getting his head cloven in half by gangsters in the street;
* a fundamentalist preacher and self-avowed prophet -- who basically held the entire city (perhaps the most important city in the world at the time) in thrall for the past four years -- having to confess under torture that he was basically a scam artist;
* this preacher and his two buddies getting hung in the public square, burned to ashes, and the ashes dumped in the river so no one could ever find even a fragment of bone that they could claim was a relic and try to get him sainted;
* and more!

Seriously, the story of Girolamo Savonarola and Florence is one badass tale, and the historically-inclined among you should check into it.

Bouville
03-28-2007, 09:26 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6490389.stm

MetalDrummer888
03-28-2007, 09:29 PM
Seriously, the story of Girolamo Savonarola and Florence is one badass tale, and the historically-inclined among you should check into it.

sounds good . . . maybe i will. Have you read Name of the Rose?

zgodt
03-28-2007, 09:45 PM
sounds good . . . maybe i will. Have you read Name of the Rose?
Two or three times. It is one of my all-time favorite novels. :D

Bouville
03-28-2007, 09:45 PM
Two or three times. It is one of my all-time favorite novels. :D

I like Baudolino better.

MetalDrummer888
03-28-2007, 09:47 PM
Two or three times. It is one of my all-time favorite novels. :D

i actually havent read it yet :eyes:

its on my nightstand but we have so much reading for the fucking advanced english class im in that i havent gotten a chance all schoolyear :flame:

zgodt
03-28-2007, 09:49 PM
I like Baudolino better.
Yeah? I haven't read Baudolino. I loved Foucault's Pendulum, but got bored halfway through The Island of the Day Before.

zgodt
03-28-2007, 09:50 PM
i actually havent read it yet :eyes:

its on my nightstand but we have so much reading for the fucking advanced english class im in that i havent gotten a chance all schoolyear :flame:

It'll still be good this summer. :)

Bouville
03-28-2007, 09:51 PM
Yeah? I haven't read Baudolino. I loved Foucault's Pendulum, but got bored halfway through The Island of the Day Before.

MUST READ BAUDOLINO!

Seriously... it is fucking hilarious and fucking cleaver.

MetalDrummer888
03-28-2007, 09:52 PM
It'll still be good this summer. :)

i have a huge list building up :bouville:

zgodt
03-28-2007, 09:56 PM
MUST READ BAUDOLINO!

Seriously... it is fucking hilarious and fucking cleaver.
I'll add it to my list. :)

Bouville
03-28-2007, 09:58 PM
I'll add it to my list. :)

Great... now let me tell you the end... :allan:

ChildrenofSodom
03-31-2007, 08:25 AM
The Black Arts by Richard Cavendish

The Satan Hunter by Thomas W. Wedge

Div
04-06-2007, 10:23 AM
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_095170448.html


The Police:leak:

JRA
04-06-2007, 10:42 AM
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_095170448.html


The Police:leak:

"Any student caught writing graffiti, or defacing school property, will be automatically suspended, unless they are uh masturbating."

Identify THAT reference, win a prize.

Div
04-06-2007, 10:47 AM
"Any student caught writing graffiti, or defacing school property, will be automatically suspended, unless they are uh masturbating."

Identify THAT reference, win a prize.


Doesnt ring any bells atm, but it reminds me of a story from highschool. One of the vice principals walked into the mens bathroom and some kid was jacking off, the vp walked out and shouted in "when you're done you're suspended!" :lol:

JRA
04-06-2007, 10:51 AM
Doesnt ring any bells atm, but it reminds me of a story from highschool. One of the vice principals walked into the mens bathroom and some kid was jacking off, the vp walked out and shouted in "when you're done you're suspended!" :lol:

PWNED!!

ChildrenofSodom
04-07-2007, 11:44 AM
I am reading Spectra: A Book of Poetic Experiments on the internet, until I can get a hard copy.

zgodt
04-07-2007, 01:21 PM
I am reading Spectra: A Book of Poetic Experiments on the internet, until I can get a hard copy.
I just read about it on wikipedia. Sounds interesting. How do you like it?

ChildrenofSodom
04-07-2007, 01:23 PM
I just read about it on wikipedia. Sounds interesting. How do you like it?

Well, the whole text is on the net, but I dont want to read all the way through, I would rather read the book....but I first read about it in The Museum Of Hoaxes, and as I am sure you read on wikipedia, all the poems are meant to be confusing, nonsensical, and pretentious....to mock the existentialists and surrealists, but the poems actually kick ass. Very very metal. Even if they dont make sense, they sound very cool.

zgodt
04-07-2007, 01:27 PM
Well, the whole text is on the net, but I dont want to read all the way through, I would rather read the book....but I first read about it in The Museum Of Hoaxes, and as I am sure you read on wikipedia, all the poems are meant to be confusing, nonsensical, and pretentious....to mock the existentialists and surrealists, but the poems actually kick ass. Very very metal. Even if they dont make sense, they sound very cool.

It says on wikipedia that after they wrote all these intentionally bad poems as a spoof, they both realized it was some of their best work. Oops. :lol:

I'll try to check it out some time when I don't have a research paper to write.

ChildrenofSodom
04-07-2007, 01:30 PM
It says on wikipedia that after they wrote all these intentionally bad poems as a spoof, they both realized it was some of their best work. Oops. :lol:

I'll try to check it out some time when I don't have a research paper to write.

Yeah...The whole literature community was taken in by the hoax. Its pretty funny.

HIS eyes
Are the resurrection.
Once when beneath the moonrise
They looked into mine,
Grey mists held mastery between us,
And I knew that his soul
Had gone down into death.
But tonight a golden star-dust
Is pouring through space,
And the mist is burned away by it.
Tonight his soul awakens
Out of its splendid cerements,
And through his eyes the miracle
Arises to the earth.

zgodt
04-07-2007, 01:34 PM
Yeah...The whole literature community was taken in by the hoax. Its pretty funny.

HIS eyes
Are the resurrection.
Once when beneath the moonrise
They looked into mine,
Grey mists held mastery between us,
And I knew that his soul
Had gone down into death.
But tonight a golden star-dust
Is pouring through space,
And the mist is burned away by it.
Tonight his soul awakens
Out of its splendid cerements,
And through his eyes the miracle
Arises to the earth.

Okay that's pretty terrible. :lol:

ChildrenofSodom
04-07-2007, 01:43 PM
Okay that's pretty terrible. :lol:

But I could totally see it being growled in a doom song.

DethMaiden
04-07-2007, 02:01 PM
OMG U GUYS JUST DONT GET IT ITS POERTY!

Bouville
04-07-2007, 03:36 PM
http://www.isreview.org/issues/52/imperialcrisis.shtml

zgodt
04-07-2007, 10:00 PM
But I could totally see it being growled in a doom song.
I see your point.

Perhaps that says something about your average doom song. ;)

ChildrenofSodom
04-08-2007, 07:23 AM
I see your point.

Perhaps that says something about your average doom song. ;)

QUICK BOUVILLE, BAN HIM!

Div
04-09-2007, 08:54 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2828049.stm


wow :eyes: thats really fucked up

JRA
04-09-2007, 08:57 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2828049.stm


wow :eyes: thats really fucked up


Its stupid.

ChildrenofSodom
04-10-2007, 03:02 PM
My Ayn Rand Institute literature came in!!

overkiller
04-16-2007, 01:03 PM
Goethe - Faust Pt. 1

ChildrenofSodom
04-16-2007, 01:14 PM
"If you must tell me your opinions, tell me what you believe in. I have plenty of douts of my own."--Johann Goethe

ChildrenofSodom
04-16-2007, 08:20 PM
Malcolm X: By Any Means Necessary by Walter Dean Myers

For my thesis paper, I figured I should choose the two extremes: anti-religious black metal (mostly National Socialist) and Nation of Islam militant black nationalists.

powerslave_85
04-16-2007, 08:21 PM
Malcolm X: By Any Means Necessary by Walter Dean Myers

For my thesis paper, I figured I should choose the two extremes: anti-religious black metal (mostly National Socialist) and Nation of Islam militant black nationalists.
What? They're not even related.

zgodt
04-16-2007, 08:23 PM
Malcolm X: By Any Means Necessary by Walter Dean Myers

For my thesis paper, I figured I should choose the two extremes: anti-religious black metal (mostly National Socialist) and Nation of Islam militant black nationalists.

What kind of thesis can you apply to that?

Div
04-16-2007, 09:29 PM
Malcolm X: By Any Means Necessary by Walter Dean Myers

For my thesis paper, I figured I should choose the two extremes: anti-religious black metal (mostly National Socialist) and Nation of Islam militant black nationalists.


:confused:

Bouville
04-16-2007, 09:38 PM
:confused:

I raise your :confused: to :confused: :confused: and add :eyes: :eyes:

ChildrenofSodom
04-17-2007, 04:14 AM
I am doing a thesis on dissidents in society. How dissent can arise from negative personal experience, breed extreme alternatives, and be seen as taboo and heretical to the mainstream.

zgodt
04-17-2007, 05:45 AM
I am doing a thesis on dissidents in society. How dissent can arise from negative personal experience, breed extreme alternatives, and be seen as taboo and heretical to the mainstream.
I see. That makes more sense. Still, your sample group is likely contaminated by the key role that racism plays in both of the movements you've chosen. It might be useful to have a control group or two to account for that. (The radical environmental movement, or militant animal rights activists, or Operation Rescue, or David Koresh, or something.)

Of course, more work is more work. So do what you gotta do. :)

ChildrenofSodom
04-17-2007, 12:18 PM
I see. That makes more sense. Still, your sample group is likely contaminated by the key role that racism plays in both of the movements you've chosen. It might be useful to have a control group or two to account for that. (The radical environmental movement, or militant animal rights activists, or Operation Rescue, or David Koresh, or something.)

Of course, more work is more work. So do what you gotta do. :)

We had to chose two seperate people/groups that fit our role in society (mine was dissident) so I chose the two that I was most interested in: black metal and black supremacy. I am straying away from the NSBM a little more as I go on, and just focusing more on the anti-social aspects of BM. (poop joke :tp: ) I chose what I chose, and I gotta make it work....I'll let you know how it turns out :D

Div
04-20-2007, 02:50 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html

Uncle Ted hits the nail on the head :fist:

DethMaiden
04-20-2007, 06:40 PM
Ishmael Beah- A Long Way Gone: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier

Anyone else see him on The Daily Show awhile back? This book is really damned powerful...

JRA
04-20-2007, 07:13 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html

Uncle Ted hits the nail on the head :fist:

:hmm:

I was actually thinking about this the other day. Not what Ted Nugent said obviously, but I like to go on my own "stand up comic tangents" in my head every so often, and I started thinking, "what if every single person on campus had a gun?"

Keeping in line with my tangent, I'd like to think there would definitely be more violence than non-violence, especially since guns would be in the hands of people who aren't necessarily crazy, but would have anger problems or just a bad attitude.

That being said, as I was reading the situations of principals and night club owners coming to the rescue with their own guns, I could do nothing but applaud. I mean for one thing its their fucking place of business, and they have every right to defend it. And if you don't feel comfortable going to an establishment because "the owner has a gun" well, that's your problem.

As for the "gun-free zone" policy, it's a good idea in theory, but it needs security. I mean fuck, that kid had two guns. How's that policy supposed to be enforced if any Tom, Dick or Harry can sneak in a firearm?

So either keep an air-tight system or have some sort of first line of defnese.

:2cents:


Addendum: all this discussion of guns and security reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL6nzOwR8HA

:D

Bouville
04-20-2007, 07:42 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html

Uncle Ted hits the nail on the head :fist:

No reason why the whole planet laughs at the US. This is pathetic.

Bouville
04-20-2007, 07:56 PM
Someone has to be really stupid to think that walls solve complex sociopolitical problems :hecho:

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3218,36-899518@51-823016,0.html

Div
04-20-2007, 08:02 PM
No reason why the whole planet laughs at the US. This is pathetic.

elaborate?

Bouville
04-20-2007, 08:07 PM
elaborate?

How often do you read international press? Go look for yourself. Then you'll know what I mean.

ChildrenofSodom
04-20-2007, 08:15 PM
How often do you read international press? Go look for yourself. Then you'll know what I mean.

To some extent, I understand reading non-US news about the United States to avoid American bias, but who is say that the foreign media isn't biased?

Div
04-20-2007, 08:17 PM
:hmm:

I was actually thinking about this the other day. Not what Ted Nugent said obviously, but I like to go on my own "stand up comic tangents" in my head every so often, and I started thinking, "what if every single person on campus had a gun?"

Keeping in line with my tangent, I'd like to think there would definitely be more violence than non-violence, especially since guns would be in the hands of people who aren't necessarily crazy, but would have anger problems or just a bad attitude.

That being said, as I was reading the situations of principals and night club owners coming to the rescue with their own guns, I could do nothing but applaud. I mean for one thing its their fucking place of business, and they have every right to defend it. And if you don't feel comfortable going to an establishment because "the owner has a gun" well, that's your problem.

As for the "gun-free zone" policy, it's a good idea in theory, but it needs security. I mean fuck, that kid had two guns. How's that policy supposed to be enforced if any Tom, Dick or Harry can sneak in a firearm?

So either keep an air-tight system or have some sort of first line of defnese.

:2cents:


Addendum: all this discussion of guns and security reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL6nzOwR8HA

:D


:lol: at mafia guy

the thing is though, people who go through the red tape of getting a ccw have respect for guns and have been through a safety course so they're probably not going to get all dirty harry on everyones ass and have it revoked.

the nuge speaks the truth, the campus was a gun free zone and noone was able to defend themselves. gun control only works in the benefit of the criminals, sense they dont follow the laws.

JRA
04-20-2007, 08:18 PM
:lol: at mafia guy



One of the funniest things I've ever seen. I literally fell of my chair in laughter the first time I saw that.

ChildrenofSodom
04-20-2007, 08:19 PM
:lol: at mafia guy

the thing is though, people who go through the red tape of getting a ccw have respect for guns and have been through a safety course so they're probably not going to get all dirty harry on everyones ass and have it revoked.

the nuge speaks the truth, the campus was a gun free zone and noone was able to defend themselves. gun control only works in the benefit of the criminals, sense they dont follow the laws.

Exactly....If criminals are going to break the law and shoot someone, what makes gun-grabbers think that they will follow the new laws and register their weapons?

powerslave_85
04-21-2007, 12:50 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html

Uncle Ted hits the nail on the head :fist:
Ugh. There's so much wrong with that bullshit.
-Who says the VT shooter was "in defiance" of gun-free zones? I'm pretty sure he shot all those people because he was mentally unbalanced, not because he was trying to prove some point about gun laws.

-I hate this bullshit about feeling "helpless" in these gun-free zones. Our campus, of course, is a gun free zone, and I've never felt even slightly unsafe. Let's just say I worry a lot more about tests and papers than I do about getting shot.

Bottom line: I feel completely safe at my school, and if everyone were armed, I would be more nervous and on edge, not less.

DethMaiden
04-21-2007, 05:41 AM
Ugh. There's so much wrong with that bullshit.
-Who says the VT shooter was "in defiance" of gun-free zones? I'm pretty sure he shot all those people because he was mentally unbalanced, not because he was trying to prove some point about gun laws.

-I hate this bullshit about feeling "helpless" in these gun-free zones. Our campus, of course, is a gun free zone, and I've never felt even slightly unsafe. Let's just say I worry a lot more about tests and papers than I do about getting shot.

Bottom line: I feel completely safe at my school, and if everyone were armed, I would be more nervous and on edge, not less.

Very true.

JRA
04-21-2007, 06:52 AM
Ugh. There's so much wrong with that bullshit.
-Who says the VT shooter was "in defiance" of gun-free zones? I'm pretty sure he shot all those people because he was mentally unbalanced, not because he was trying to prove some point about gun laws.

-I hate this bullshit about feeling "helpless" in these gun-free zones. Our campus, of course, is a gun free zone, and I've never felt even slightly unsafe. Let's just say I worry a lot more about tests and papers than I do about getting shot.

Bottom line: I feel completely safe at my school, and if everyone were armed, I would be more nervous and on edge, not less.


Well, I think everyone knows that.

True, but never underestimate the "Illusion of safety" (as George Carlin likes to call it).

ChildrenofSodom
04-21-2007, 06:53 AM
Schools should be gun free zones...I think thats a given. I wouldnt trust drunk co-ed party-goers with a handgun :eyes:

JRA
04-21-2007, 07:45 AM
Schools should be gun free zones...I think thats a given. I wouldnt trust drunk co-ed party-goers with a handgun :eyes:

Which is what I was saying also.

ChildrenofSodom
04-21-2007, 08:32 AM
Which is what I was saying also.

okay :eyes: