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View Full Version : City of Boston cracks down on moshing.


street_burial
03-13-2012, 07:28 AM
Boston cops are cracking down on slam-dancing concertgoers, blindsiding a top Hub venue for a rowdy mosh pit at a recent gig and pledging to halt all “dangerous behavior” on the floor — prompting outrage from bands who say the aggressive dance style is an integral part of the show.

“The city of Boston needs to stay out of it,” said Guy Kozowyk, vocalist for Hub metal band The Red Chord. “I understand cracking down on fighting, but (moshing) is a form of expression. It’s ridiculous they’re cracking down on this now. There are plenty of other problems.”

Boston cops cited the House of Blues for a license violation because of a mosh pit that broke out during a Feb. 21 show by Los Angeles band Flogging Molly. According to police, 60 concertgoers engaged in an “aggressive mosh pit dance,” during which people were running and “colliding into each other,” including some who were “knocked to the ground.” No injuries were reported.


A Boston Police Department inspector said the communal dance violated safety rules and the club was cited because security did not intervene, records show.

A statement from the House of Blues said “the safety of our patrons is the top priority” and that the venue is working closely with the city “to address concerns about moshing and other forms of expressive dance.” A Flogging Molly publicist declined to comment.

City officials said they could not recall another instance when a Hub rock club was cited for a mosh pit, but cops vowed that dance- floor mayhem will not be tolerated.

“Dancing is a First Amendment right, but the behavior itself is a violation, especially when it becomes dangerous and a public safety hazard,” Boston police spokeswoman Officer Nicole Grant said.

The city’s licensing board took the matter under advisement after a City Hall hearing yesterday, while the club was ordered to put up illuminated signs saying moshing is not allowed.

The dustup comes as the Lansdowne Street club plans for three sold-out St. Patrick’s Day shows by the Dropkick Murphys this week. But Dropkick singer Ken Casey said the club and city have nothing to worry about.

“I don’t see it as a concern for us. Maybe in 1998 it would have been,” Casey said.

But other bands say the crackdown sets a bad precedent and will force heavier bands — including several top-selling Massachusetts metal acts — back to Worcester and the suburbs, where venues have permitted mosh pits for years.

“This new anti-moshing policy proves once again that the city of Boston hates heavy music,” said Trevor Phipps, vocalist for Boston’s Unearth. “It’s disheartening and maddening to know your hometown doesn’t support or understand your music scene.”

Brian Fair, vocalist for Grammy-nominated Bay State metal band Shadows Fall, called the clampdown “ridiculous” and said: “I can understand trying to cut down on injuries or fights, but you see more fights outside a dance night on Lansdowne Street than you see inside a hardcore show.”

source (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220313cops_slam_mosh_pits_house_of_blues_cited_a s_city_cracks_down_on_dance-floor_mayhem/srvc=home&position=0)

Fuck Boston.

ravenheart
03-13-2012, 07:36 AM
:lol: "moshing is a form of expression" :lol:

IrritatedTrout
03-13-2012, 07:41 AM
Moshing is fucking gay. So is this. What they need to do is throw those fucking crowd surfers out when they catch them. Can't stop moshing nearly as easily as that.

ravenheart
03-13-2012, 07:43 AM
What they need to do is throw those fucking crowd surfers out when they catch them

This.

mastodon421
03-13-2012, 07:43 AM
That's pretty fucking stupid. I saw August Burns Red there a few weeks ago and pits still happened (This was after the Flogging Molly "incident" on February 21). There has always been a no-moshing rule at the House of Blues (they attempt to counter this by sticking fat-fuck security guards in the middle of the pit, but clearly they get overpowered once the pits really get going), but clearly people do it anyways. Ultimately I don't thinks it's going to effect anything. I can guarantee you when I see the Dropkick Murphys there on Thursday there will be pits and I'm sure there will still be metal shows at the House of Blues in the future.

BloodoftheKings
03-13-2012, 08:09 AM
:lol: "moshing is a form of expression" :lol:

Moshing is fucking gay. So is this. What they need to do is throw those fucking crowd surfers out when they catch them. Can't stop moshing nearly as easily as that.

lol, old people. Anyway putting bans of moshing is ridiculous. If somebody gets hurt in a mosh pit it's their fault. Anybody who wants no part in it can easily go to the side or the back. Same goes for not wanting to deal with crowd surfers.

ravenheart
03-13-2012, 08:25 AM
lol, old people.

Nowt to do with age, and all to do with that being an entirely stupid statement.

If somebody gets hurt in a mosh pit it's their fault. Anybody who wants no part in it can easily go to the side or the back. Same goes for not wanting to deal with crowd surfers.

No it isn't. Of course they can, if there's no crowd. At a sold out show, that's not necessarily possible at all. And no it doesn't. What you're saying is that people who don't want to deal with crowd surfers aren't allowed to be down the front, just because of what some other drunk wants to do? Yeah, that's fair.

I also think the ban is wrong. More people should get hurt in moshpits!

BloodoftheKings
03-13-2012, 08:28 AM
At a sold out show, that's not necessarily possible at all. And no it doesn't. What you're saying is that people who don't want to deal with crowd surfers aren't allowed to be down the front, just because of what some other drunk wants to do? Yeah, that's fair.

I am always able to push through the crowd when I have to, even if it is at a sold out show. If you want to be in the front you have to be prepared to handle crowd surfers, that's common sense.

Natrlhi
03-13-2012, 08:29 AM
Anybody who wants no part in it can easily go to the side or the back.You mean where the view is shitty. OK, gotcha.

Yeah, fuck anybody who isn't willing to get into the pit. It's their own damn fault for being old, or of smaller stature, or of a mild-mannered disposition and not prone to violence. Yeah, fuck those pussies! :rocker:

Please. :rolleyes:

I don't mind moshing at all - and I occasionally still participate (even though I'm supposedly the old fart around here), and even still, your comments just rub me the wrong way. You can't take the approach you're advocating and call it "fair for everyone" - it just doesn't work that way.

BloodoftheKings
03-13-2012, 08:34 AM
You mean where the view is shitty. OK, gotcha.

Yeah, fuck anybody who isn't willing to get into the pit. It's their own damn fault for being old, or of smaller stature, or of a mild-mannered disposition and not prone to violence. Yeah, fuck those pussies! :rocker:


But that's not really what i'm saying at all. I'm just saying if you can't handle it it's easily avoidable and you shouldn't ruin other people's fun just cause you want to be up front. Plus most shows I go to there's spots with no moshing/crowd surfing where you have a great view.

Natrlhi
03-13-2012, 08:36 AM
That said, I think the ban is stupid. Simple slam-dancing will always be a part of metal. Always. Plus, there's no way to enforce it. Security can't go into the crowd and start pulling out people who run into other people and kick them out. That's not safe for the security crew, and it would lead to a lot of situations where people would be getting unfairly ejected because others are running into them, and not the other way around.

The only thing to do is eject the crowd surfers - which is fine by me, for two reasons:

First, it is the most dangerous form of moshing. People get hurt badly doing this - even paralyzed from time to time. You can say "good for them - they deserve it", but let's face it - we've all been young and stupid before, and sometimes it makes sense to have a few rules that protect us from ourselves. Enough said.

Secondly, being ejected for repeat offenses of crowd surfing is the way things were when I was coming up. If you did it once, you probably wouldn't get thrown out. If you did it more than once, your chances of being ejected went up exponentially. It was just part of the game. That's why you would try not to get shoved toward the front, or if you did, then you would either get down off the top of the crowd, or try to avoid security when you got pushed up front. If you didn't, then maybe you got kicked out. Them were the breaks - it's a risk you took if you wanted to crowd surf.

So in summary, the only reasonable solution is the way it was done years ago - when us old geezers were in charge. Imagine that.

Natrlhi
03-13-2012, 08:42 AM
But that's not really what i'm saying at all. Yes it is, you just don't realize it, because it's what you're implying, not what you're saying directly.

Everyone wants to be up front. What you're saying effectively translates to, "if you're not young and in good shape and willing to take an elbow to the ribs or a boot to the head, then you don't get to have a good spot up front".

...and fuck that. It's not fair. Period.

brutal_descent
03-13-2012, 08:47 AM
Yeah; I bruise easily, but my vision is absolute shit too, so it's a game of roulette going up on the rail. Really fucking hate crowdsurfers too, but don't mind moshing.

Butcher of Birth
03-13-2012, 08:48 AM
Moshing is fucking gay. So is this. What they need to do is throw those fucking crowd surfers out when they catch them. Can't stop moshing nearly as easily as that.

Nothing worse than a fat guy's boot to your face during a song.

smearCampaign
03-13-2012, 08:55 AM
So in summary, the only reasonable solution is the way it was done years ago - when us old geezers were in charge. Imagine that.

NATRLHI FOR METAL PRESIDENT 2012


Crowd surfers can fuck off.

Sanitarium78
03-13-2012, 09:00 AM
I agree with Nat about ejecting crowd surfers. I'd be fine if venues banned it actually. The logic behind it baffles me and it is very dangerous mainly because you're looking at the stage and you can't see the jackasses coming up behind you until you get kicked in the head or they land on you. I've seen a few shows get stopped before because somebody got hurt while crowd surfing.

There's no order to crowd surfing, the people who do it are forcing you to participate in an activity you have no desire in doing. Moshing can be brutal and you can get hurt but at least there's some order to moshing and an unspoken code to follow in the pit so you don't intentionally hurt somebody seriously. The best thing about moshing is if you don't want to do it you can easily avoid it in most cases. As opposed to a sweaty guys ass landing on your face because some idiot decided to go crowd surfing.

Natrlhi
03-13-2012, 09:05 AM
NATRLHI FOR METAL PRESIDENT 2012
:rocker: YES WE CAN, BITCHES :rocker:

larvtard
03-13-2012, 09:18 AM
Crowd-surfing is a necessary element to any show, in my opinion. It just adds an element of fun seeing other people having a blast.

brutal_descent
03-13-2012, 09:35 AM
Crowd-surfing is a necessary element to any show, in my opinion. It just adds an element of fun seeing other people having a blast.

...whilst also seeing people/experiencing terror as huge neckbeards hit the back of your head with their boots. Not my idea of a blast.

IrritatedTrout
03-13-2012, 11:07 AM
I know a lot of security guys can be dicks sometimes but crowd surfing can be dangerous for them too. I really can't think of any group at a show that isn't needlessly endangered by crowd surfing except the bands themselves I guess.

mankvill
03-13-2012, 11:28 AM
I don't like moshing but I also extremely agree that if you are up front and bitch about moshing, then you are an idiot.

Natrlhi
03-13-2012, 11:33 AM
I know a lot of security guys can be dicks sometimes but crowd surfing can be dangerous for them too. I really can't think of any group at a show that isn't needlessly endangered by crowd surfing except the bands themselves I guess.
Au contraire, mon frère. The band members themselves may not be in immediate danger, but their gear certainly could be (that is, at shows where there isn't a rail with an empty space for security between that and the stage). That's another reason why crowd surfing just isn't cool as a general rule. It's the reason that the Isis set I saw in 2009 - which turned out to be the last time I would ever get to see them - was cut short. Some douchebag either crowd-surfed up onto the stage or was moshing and got pushed up onto it, fucking up the band's pedals and such for the umpteenth time, and Jeff Caxide decided he'd had enough and just set down his guitar and walked off the stage. Luckily for us, they were more than halfway through their final song of the night anyway, but it still sucked. You can say that it was douchey of Jeff to bail if you want (and I go back and forth on that myself sometimes), but if the idiots in the crowd hadn't clumsily fucked up the band's gear time and time again, the whole incident never would have happened.

EDIT: Really what needs to happen is that the members of the crowd need to remember their place. There is a time and a place for everything (even crowd surfing sometimes, I suppose) - but neither crowd-surfing nor moshing was called for at a show like Isis, for example, and the idiots who were doing it (boneheaded Keelhaul fans who had had way too much to drink, is my theory) needed to realize that their actions were stupid and out of place, or be slapped in the head by somebody. The whole crowd was looking at each other like, "what are these fuckheads doing? Do they not realize this is a post-metal show?"

Seventhzealot
03-13-2012, 11:38 AM
I don't care much about moshing and thus I don't mind it nearly as much as crowd surfing.

ShatteredFlame
03-13-2012, 12:05 PM
I honestly never really saw crowd surfing as a problem until the last gig I went to (Glamour Kills Tour) where you could tell that some of the crowd was new to it and I saw several people getting kicked in the head. Other than that it seems I've only been to gigs where people expected and encouraged it.

kalfitegrdan
03-13-2012, 01:20 PM
I fucking hate crowd surfing, but I'm usually okay with it because it usually doesn't affect me at all since I'm usually in the pit or on the edge of the pit. That being said, I would not mind at all if crowd surfing was banned at most venues. That's one of the reasons that Reggie's is so kick ass, because they heavily enforce their no crowd surfing and stage diving rules.

dcmetal108
03-13-2012, 01:59 PM
I fucking hate crowd surfing, but I'm usually okay with it because it usually doesn't affect me at all since I'm usually in the pit or on the edge of the pit. That being said, I would not mind at all if crowd surfing was banned at most venues. That's one of the reasons that Reggie's is so kick ass, because they heavily enforce their no crowd surfing and stage diving rules.

But for some shows stagediving and crowd surfing are a must. Hardcore shows for instance. But like everyone said already there is a time and place for all that. Metal shows though are known for moshing and crowd surfing and being one that loves doing both I'll never stop.

treghet
03-13-2012, 02:15 PM
EDIT: Really what needs to happen is that the members of the crowd need to remember their place. There is a time and a place for everything (even crowd surfing sometimes, I suppose) - but neither crowd-surfing nor moshing was called for at a show like Isis, for example, and the idiots who were doing it (boneheaded Keelhaul fans who had had way too much to drink, is my theory) needed to realize that their actions were stupid and out of place, or be slapped in the head by somebody. The whole crowd was looking at each other like, "what are these fuckheads doing? Do they not realize this is a post-metal show?"

Crowd surfing can be totally fine depending on the type of show. If you go to a hardcore show and complain about crowd surfers you can fuck right off. But Isis is definitely not the setting to crowd surf. Also, there are plenty of metal bands that advocate crowd surfing / stage diving, like Origin for instance. If you see them you should be prepared for that.

dcmetal108
03-13-2012, 02:17 PM
Almost every metal band asks for pits etc.

But I agree like if I go to some post-rock show I don't want people trying to slam or anything.


Like when I saw Anvil there were a few guys trying to mosh and shove everyone and people weren't having it. You could tell they were wasted though but still. A time and place for everything.

brutal_descent
03-13-2012, 02:20 PM
>mfw a bunch of idiots started crowd surfing during Face of Melinda

http://files.sharenator.com/fuuuuu_The_Worlds_Hardest_Game_3-s343x268-95358-580.jpg

Natrlhi
03-13-2012, 02:35 PM
If you go to a hardcore show and complain about crowd surfers you can fuck right off.I agree wholeheartedly.

Also, there are plenty of metal bands that advocate crowd surfing / stage diving, like Origin for instance. If you see them you should be prepared for that.Again, agreed. They are obviously OK with fans being near their gear, too, because they keep it off to the side purposefully to make more room on stage so that they can fit as many fans as possible up there at the end of their set. :D :rocker:

Like I said, there's a time and place for everything. :fist:

brutal_descent
03-13-2012, 02:49 PM
Yeah, I mean obviously, I'm not going to complain about crowd-surfing at a DEP, Chariot, or a Converge show; those bands play styles of metal that is prime for that kind of behavior. It's just that at almost every show I go to I see crowd-surfers, which gets quite annoying.

Epidemic Reign
03-13-2012, 05:05 PM
So in summary, the only reasonable solution is the way it was done years ago - when us old geezers were in charge. Imagine that.

It's not fair. Period.


There was a time when you old geezers used to love reminding us young folk that "LIFE'S not fair". You geezers are getting soft.

:finger:

RAZOR
03-13-2012, 05:18 PM
It would be hypocritical of me to complain about crowd-surfers because I'm usually always at the rail and they're floating over my head all night long, but if anything, that should be what people are trying to lessen, not moshing.

Dextrimental
03-14-2012, 07:35 AM
Moshing I can abide, since I often partake in it myself, crowd surfing, I'm iffy about. I think it will always be part of the parcel when it comes to metal/rock/hardcore shows, and more often than not it's just someone trying to have fun. I think a 3 strikes you're out system for crowdsurfers is fair as standard per venue, and after that the policy should be decided by the bands playing, as there are big contrasts for bands attitudes to the issue, some bands love them, some bands hate them. The idea of abolishing moshing altogether though is a little naive, for some bands it will work, but if Slayer decide to roll into your venue, good luck enforcing any kind of rule!

ravenheart
03-14-2012, 08:06 AM
One of my all time funniest concert memories is still the time someone tried to crowd surf at an Opeth gig. He went up, and was immediately dropped again. Brilliant.

ravenheart
03-14-2012, 08:08 AM
Crowd-surfing is a necessary element to any show, in my opinion. It just adds an element of fun seeing other people having a blast.

Only when they get dropped like the dumbfucks they are :finger:

Sanitarium78
03-14-2012, 12:51 PM
One of my all time funniest concert memories is still the time someone tried to crowd surf at an Opeth gig. He went up, and was immediately dropped again. Brilliant.

I've seen that happen at a few shows. I remember the first time I saw that back when I was a teenager and I laughed pretty hard when the guy went up and the immediately proceeded to go splat onto the floor.

MetalIsArt
03-14-2012, 12:52 PM
I don't do crowdsurfing. :hmm:


:tongue:

Sanitarium78
03-14-2012, 12:55 PM
I don't do crowdsurfing. :hmm:


:tongue:

Good, that means your brain actually has some common sense:D

dcmetal108
03-14-2012, 03:56 PM
I do crowdsurfing. Funniest moment seeing someone do it was last year at Summer Slaughter. Like halfway through Within The Ruins someone tried it not knowing that security wasn't there to catch him and the front row threw him extra high and he hit the hard floor face first.


When done right, crowdsurfing is fun.

Triggz
03-14-2012, 05:06 PM
Boston security has always been easily agitated.

See: ATHF event

slapguitarer
03-14-2012, 05:17 PM
Like others have said, crowdsurfing is ok in certain enviornments, like a thrash metal show, or hardcore or something. But people shouldn't crowdsurf at something like Sleep. :hmm:

MetalIsArt
03-15-2012, 07:55 AM
Good, that means your brain actually has some common sense:D

Teh truth haz been spoken.

SomewhereInTime72
03-16-2012, 01:30 AM
This discussion again, huh.

BloodoftheKings
03-16-2012, 06:10 PM
Petition (http://www.change.org/petitions/keep-moshing-legal-remove-the-moshing-ban-currently-being-enforced-by-the-boston-p-d?utm_source=acq_sign&utm_medium=reddit&utm_content=&utm_campaign=en_usa_gen)

illuminatus917
03-17-2012, 04:06 PM
Anti-mosh banning. Anti-The Red Chord. Anti-Unearth. Pro moshers getting injured. Pro non-moshers beating up moshers. Pro balcony dwellers throwing objects at moshers.

adamclark52
03-17-2012, 09:45 PM
I'm not into moshing or crowd surfing myself, and I do find it annoying when you unexpectedly get a boot to the head, but there's something satisfying about seeing some douche mosh with himself, then moonsault onto a concrete floor.

To quote Homer Simpson, "it's funny because it's not me".