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mankvill
07-06-2011, 08:52 PM
Hey! I have a list already thought out this time!

I'm definitely not a huge fan of melodic death metal, but I've found that when I actually do like a melodic death metal album, I like it A LOT. I don't have very many picks on this list (less than 10, really) so it'll be short and sweet.

Also keep in mind - I have either not heard or listened to VERY LITTLE of the following bands:

Wintersun
Dissection
In Flames
Children of Bodom
...and many more "essential" melo-death bands.

List begins next post!

ChildrenofSodom
07-06-2011, 08:53 PM
I really like In Flames, Insomnium, and Swallow the Sun....so I better be impressed with this list...

mankvill
07-06-2011, 08:56 PM
Swallow the Sun

The last thing I would call Swallow The Sun is melodic death metal :eyes:

treghet
07-06-2011, 08:58 PM
Also keep in mind - I have either not heard or listened to VERY LITTLE of the following bands:

Wintersun
Dissection
In Flames
Children of Bodom
...and many more "essential" melo-death bands.


For some reason I don't think you're the right person to make a melodic death metal list.

ChildrenofSodom
07-06-2011, 08:58 PM
The last thing I would call Swallow The Sun is melodic death metal :eyes:

Death-doom. I lump it into the corner of melo-death.

EDIT- Just post the fucking list.

treghet
07-06-2011, 08:59 PM
The last thing I would call Swallow The Sun is melodic death metal :eyes:

They're melodic death/doom.

mankvill
07-06-2011, 08:59 PM
Death-doom. I lump it into the corner of melo-death.

EDIT- Just post the fucking list.

*punch*

I'mma do a pretentious write up for each album. Deal with it!

mankvill
07-06-2011, 09:00 PM
For some reason I don't think you're the right person to make a melodic death metal list.

It's not for the best ever, it's just for my favorites. Feel free to reccommend me some. :tongue:

hellawaits77ny
07-06-2011, 09:00 PM
You can probably tell by my list I'm not the biggest melodic DM fan, but you know your shit so I'm excited to see this :rocker:

ChildrenofSodom
07-06-2011, 09:13 PM
I just spent the past two hours looking for new melo-death bands in vein of Before the Dawn and Tracedawn. I anxiously await your list. :bouville:

mankvill
07-06-2011, 09:15 PM
#7

http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/e/ensiferum/album-iron.jpg

Ensiferum - Iron

Don't call this album Viking metal. It's definitely not (although their later stuff is). It's just damn good melodic death metal. Iron, to me, is why I think of partying (as much as you can to metal) when I think of melodic death metal. It just sounds really happy, and it's really easy to sing along with. No complex music to follow, just good and simple fun.

Fave tracks: Sword Chant, Slayer Of Light, LAI LAI HEI

idrinkwine732
07-06-2011, 09:19 PM
:eyes:

mankvill
07-06-2011, 09:23 PM
:eyes:

:eyes:

what :flame:

makethemsuffer12
07-06-2011, 09:50 PM
For some reason I don't think you're the right person to make a melodic death metal list.

This, mainly on the In Flames part.

And if Slaughter of the Soul isn't number one, you better do sum 'splainin'.

mankvill
07-06-2011, 09:55 PM
#6

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9695/122027.jpg

Amon Amarth - With Oden On Our Side

I actually find a lot of Amon Amarth to be really boring, but they pretty much hit the nail on the head with this album. Lots of fast-tempo stuff and memorable songs. I consider this to be AA's best album by far. Again, don't call it Viking metal! :lol: Songs like Valhall Awaits Me and Cry Of The Black Birds have a lot of emotion in them and I get chills when I hear them. Fantastic stuff. The mid-tempo stuff actually does a good job of not just sounding like filler, either. It creates a great soundscape.

Favorite tracks: Asator, Runes To My Memory, Cry Of The Black Birds

Wizzbang11
07-06-2011, 10:00 PM
The only correct answer is Arghoslent, negro.
You've let me down Manx.

Rocco44
07-06-2011, 10:13 PM
Decent enough start. I used to be super into the genre but I've gotten tired of it over the years and the scene has gotten really stale. I'm still a sucker for a sugary melodic death riff though.

Dissection's Storm of the Lights Bane is essential melodic black/heavy metal or whatever you wanna call it lol

For In Flames, The Jester Race, Whoracle, and Colony are obvious classics.

COB has become shitty ala IF, but Hatebreeder, Follow The Reaper, and Hatecrew Deathroll are good fun.

Sorry for hijacking the thread lol... I'll wait until after you finish your list to say more

mankvill
07-06-2011, 10:23 PM
Decent enough start. I used to be super into the genre but I've gotten tired of it over the years and the scene has gotten really stale. I'm still a sucker for a sugary melodic death riff though.

Dissection's Storm of the Lights Bane is essential melodic black/heavy metal or whatever you wanna call it lol

For In Flames, The Jester Race, Whoracle, and Colony are obvious classics.

COB has become shitty ala IF, but Hatebreeder, Follow The Reaper, and Hatecrew Deathroll are good fun.

Sorry for hijacking the thread lol... I'll wait until after you finish your list to say more

I totally welcome any and all recommendations :D

Wizzbang11
07-06-2011, 10:27 PM
I totally welcome any and all recommendations :D

You should hear these albums Hornets of the Pogrom, Galloping Over the Battle Ruins and Incorrigible Bigotry. They will redefine what you thought melo-death could be.
Also Those Once Loyal and An Anatomy of the Beast.

mankvill
07-06-2011, 10:42 PM
#5

http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/images/covers/carcass-heartwork.jpg

Carcass - Heartwork


Of course the pioneers of grind and goregrind would make one of the first, and one of the best, melodic death metal albums. Pound for pound, I thought Carcass was always a better melodeath band than straight up grind. Love 'em both, but yeah. I love Jeff Walker's voice so much on this album. It's definitely a step backward in terms of intensity (I mean their first demo was Flesh Ripping Sonic Torment, you can't get more extreme than that) but they make great use with the slower tempo for some pretty awesome guitar solos.

Fave songs: Heartwork, Arbeit Macht Fleisch, Doctrinal Expletives

Rocco44
07-06-2011, 11:10 PM
Great album, great solos and unique songs.

I dig Arghoslent but I don't find them amazing like a lot of people seem to think. Most of what seems to be referred to as melodic death metal these days is very lacking on actual death metal. Bands like Arghoslent, Dismember, and Hypocrisy add melody to death metal more organically while current "melodic death" bands rely on super melodic guitar playing and actual death metal is barely noticeable besides in the vocals. That being said, I love both styles and try not to get hung up on genre names lol

Bolt Thrower and Intestinal Baalism are also solid, Wizzbang knows his shit.

Some of my favorites besides previously mentioned:

Dark Tranquillity - The Gallery
At The Gates - Slaughter Of The Soul
Amon Amarth - Versus The World
Insomnium - Above the Weeping World
Kalmah - Swampsong
Arsis - A Celebration of Guilt

OraclesofAgony
07-06-2011, 11:32 PM
Heartwork is the shit.

ChildrenofSodom
07-07-2011, 03:33 AM
So, you're posting the obvious shit?

Yawn.

brutal_descent
07-07-2011, 03:36 AM
Not a big melodeath guy. I love Amon Amarth, and there are others too like Bodom, In Flames, Soilwork, and Dark Tranquility.

ravenheart
07-07-2011, 04:26 AM
But... melodeath sucks....

Incidentally, listen to the debut album by MaYaN.

larvtard
07-07-2011, 05:41 AM
Heartwork should be at the top!

Also, I don't really see Dismember and Bolt Thrower as melodeath; rather, I see them as death metal that happens to be melodic. There's a difference, you know. death metal can have melody without being melodeath.

ravenheart
07-07-2011, 07:42 AM
Melodeath is all the gay death James reviews on my site.

JRA
07-07-2011, 08:53 AM
Dissection isn't "melodic death." They're black metal. Period.

mankvill
07-07-2011, 09:37 AM
But... melodeath sucks....

Which is why I only have 7 albums on my list. ;)

mankvill
07-07-2011, 09:44 AM
#4

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6683/arsisacog.jpg

Arsis - A Celebration Of Guilt

The first time I heard this album, I was absolutely floored. James Malone was (and pretty much still is) one of the greatest death metal guitar players and it really shows on here. ACOG is great because although it's definitely melodic death metal, there's technical death metal and hints of completely different genres strewn about. And unlike some of their more recent albums, I can't find a single song of filler on ACOG. It's just SOOOOOOOOO good. I'd totally recommend this to someone wanting to get into melodic or just straight up death metal along with all the classics.

Fave songs: The Face Of My Innocence, Seven Whispers Fell Silent, The Sadistic Motives Behind Bereavement Letters

NecroRob
07-07-2011, 12:50 PM
Dissection isn't "melodic death." They're black metal. Period.

Reinkaos is definitely melodeath.

DethMaiden
07-07-2011, 02:15 PM
Also, I don't really see Dismember and Bolt Thrower as melodeath; rather, I see them as death metal that happens to be melodic. There's a difference, you know. death metal can have melody without being melodeath.

Which, with the exception of Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, Heartwork, and Slaughter of the Soul, is the kind of "melodic death metal" I love.

Gimme Vader, Dismember, Bloodbath, Arghoslent, and Entombed ALL FUCKING DAY.

ChildrenofSodom
07-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Some of my faves: Amon Amarth, newer Arch Enemy, Vader, Insomnium, Before the Dawn, Dawn of Solace, In Flames (I like the new stuff better than the oldest stuff, sorry), Amorphis,

I don't know what you call them, but there are a TON of bands from Finland/Sweden/Germany that play what I consider melodic death metal. It borders on power metal with growls, but I still like it. Some bands I've discovered in the past few days: Omnium Gatherum, Soulfallen, Tracedawn, and Raintime.

illuminatus917
07-07-2011, 04:03 PM
Insomnium is probably my favorite melodeath band.

mankvill
07-07-2011, 04:06 PM
I definitely do not consider Vader or Bolt Thrower melodeath

jd091
07-07-2011, 07:24 PM
Am I the only one here who's mind is blown at the concept of centering text and pictures on a page?!

I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT HAPPEN HERE BEFORE

treghet
07-07-2011, 07:24 PM
Am I the only one here who's mind is blown at the concept of centering text and pictures on a page?!

I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT HAPPEN HERE BEFORE

Yes, you are.

http://metalsetlists.com/showthread.php?t=14229

jd091
07-07-2011, 07:26 PM
And no Wintersun on this list is :nonono:

Good call with Iron, though. Great album. And Heartwork is either 1 or 2 for me personally.

jd091
07-07-2011, 07:27 PM
Yes, you are.

http://metalsetlists.com/showthread.php?t=14229

Woah, I had no idea this thread exists! The topic intrigues me; I must check it out. :cool:

treghet
07-07-2011, 07:29 PM
Woah, I had no idea this thread exists! The topic intrigues me; I must check it out. :cool:

Hope you like it. :cool:

mankvill
07-07-2011, 07:33 PM
#3 haters gon hate

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l77lkknoSj1qd9j0zo1_500.jpg

The Black Dahlia Murder - Nocturnal

If you listen to this CD with your eyes closed, you might be fooled into thinking it's a lost At The Gates album. Every song on this album absolutely rips and has tons of really juicy deep cuts, like Deathmask Divine and Climactic Degradation. It's weird, they made this album before they got Ryan from Arsis as a guitarist, but I think the solo's on this album are some of BDM's best. Anyone who still thinks BDM sucks and/or isn't metal just needs to give this one listen. One of the best melodeath albums ever.

Fave tracks: Everything Went Black, Deathmask Divine, I Worship Only What You Bleed

jd091
07-07-2011, 07:37 PM
Dude, who the fuck hates that album? I see no haters...

illuminatus917
07-07-2011, 07:42 PM
Dude, who the fuck hates that album? I see no haters...

It's not better than A Celebration Of Guilt.

mankvill
07-07-2011, 07:42 PM
Dude, who the fuck hates that album? I see no haters...

There's always someone who has a knee-jerk reaction to TBDM for some reason.

jd091
07-07-2011, 07:49 PM
It's not better than A Celebration Of Guilt.

It's a personal favorites list. I don't see why everyone always gets their panties in bunches because they don't like what metal other people like, or visa versa. I personally find these "favorite" lists the most interesting because of curveballs like this.

illuminatus917
07-07-2011, 08:00 PM
It's a personal favorites list. I don't see why everyone always gets their panties in bunches because they don't like what metal other people like, or visa versa. I personally find these "favorite" lists the most interesting because of curveballs like this.

:) I think you overreacted a little there. I realize it's a personal favorites list.

All I said was A Celebration of Guilt is a better album. It's not only one of the best melodeath records, it's one of the best death metal albums of all time. Wasn't trying to berate mankvill's list, or say Nocturnal isn't a good album.

Rocco44
07-08-2011, 02:44 PM
Nothing wrong with TBDM, enjoyable band for sure. Don't think it should be anywhere near a top ten list though haha

mankvill
07-09-2011, 05:54 PM
#2

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1804/27811128.jpg

Arghoslent - Incorrigible Bigotry

If you saw that it was me doing this list and didn't know I'd eventually have this album on here, then you must not know me very well. The thing that really separates this album from the previous ones is simple: THE RIFFS! Riffs abound, Arghoslent just absolutely shred everyone's face off here. I can even hear a great viking (hurrdurr) influence in some of the songs, like The Purging Fires Of War. Hard to believe a band from Virginia made this. I'll just leave it at this: if there is any moral reason that you haven't listened to this album yet, you're missing out on one of the best death metal albums ever.

Fave songs: Flogging The Cargo, Incorrigible Bigotry, Hereditary Taint

DethMaiden
07-09-2011, 05:55 PM
BURYING SWORDS INTO EMACIATED RIBS
TIRED NAKED SOULS COULD NO LONGER WALK
EXOTIC FILTHY MONGREL DOGS
FETTERED TO FAILURE BY A FLAWED GENOME


It's repulsive, but goddamn is it danceable!

ChildrenofSodom
07-09-2011, 06:17 PM
Fuck....so good. I came very close to buying a Burzum album today...and I really want to buy an Arghoslent album.....

treghet
07-09-2011, 06:45 PM
I'll just leave it at this: if there is any moral reason that you haven't listened to this album yet, you're missing out on one of the best death metal albums ever.


Yep. I love it. :rocker:

Wizzbang11
07-09-2011, 10:11 PM
Everything Arghoslent touches is perferct. I actually think they are more impressive than you #1 (I won't spoil it for those of you who cant peice things together) and possibly the most musically accomplished band I can think of. While I disagree with a lot of what they say, I have deep respect for their sincerity, they could easily acheive massive mainstream success, but instead stick to their own ideas, which is admirable as flawed as they may be. After listening to them for awhile now and reading comments from hilariously uncomfortable metal fans across the board my stance has shifted from "hmm buying shit is iffy" to "if you don't support the band but like the music OR are too scared to listen, hahahahahahahaha-they arent meant for you." One of the greatest bands in history.

AnataFan4Life
07-10-2011, 09:55 PM
This topic needs more of The Chasm.

Natrlhi
07-11-2011, 08:34 AM
#2

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1804/27811128.jpg

Arghoslent - Incorrigible Bigotry

If you saw that it was me doing this list and didn't know I'd eventually have this album on here, then you must not know me very well. The thing that really separates this album from the previous ones is simple: THE RIFFS! Riffs abound, Arghoslent just absolutely shred everyone's face off here. I can even hear a great viking (hurrdurr) influence in some of the songs, like The Purging Fires Of War. Hard to believe a band from Virginia made this. I'll just leave it at this: if there is any moral reason that you haven't listened to this album yet, you're missing out on one of the best death metal albums ever.

Fave songs: Flogging The Cargo, Incorrigible Bigotry, Hereditary Taint@ Brad, here's another one that could very well compete with the new Vader (even though they're slightly different "flavors" of death metal), don't you think?

DethMaiden
07-11-2011, 08:36 AM
@ Brad, here's another one that could very well compete with the new Vader (even though they're slightly different "flavors" of death metal), don't you think?

Yes. I was excluding melodeath, but they're not really that in my opinion, so yeah.

mastodon421
07-12-2011, 07:33 AM
Great list Manks! All these albums are fantastic(I actually haven't the Arghosilent record, I should probably get on that).

mankvill
07-26-2011, 01:11 PM
#1

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8972/298jl.jpg

At The Gates - Slaughter of the Soul

I mean, honestly. Who didn't see this coming? Yes, a million billion years after I started this thread, my #1 melo-death album is here, but if this isn't at LEAST in everyone's top 3 of melodic death metal, something is wrong with them. Honestly, I've been listening to this so much and it only grows on me with each listen. Might be my favorite death metal album ever. Also, it's at LEAST in the top 20 greatest and most influential metal albums ever. It's kind of crazy how many current, popular, and GOOD bands wouldn't exist in extreme metal without this album right here. It's not just heavy and fast, but it's catchy as hell as well. This is mandatory for anyone looking to get into any type of metal with harsh vocals. It's number 1, and it's definitely earned it.

Fave songs: The whole fucking album, holy shit it is absolutely fucking perfect.

mankvill
07-26-2011, 01:12 PM
now please recommend me albums/bands

christopher
07-26-2011, 01:14 PM
Fave songs: The whole fucking album, holy shit it is absolutely fucking perfect.

This! Fucking this right here!:rockdevil

xStructualDefect
07-26-2011, 03:16 PM
As a big fan of melodeath I enjoyed the list. I agree with every album on here (except #2 since I haven't heard it yet).

Check out In Flames - Jester Race, Whoracle, Colony, Clayman
Dark Tramquillity - Damage Done, Character, The Gallery
Soilwork - The Chainheart Machine

And I'm not sure if they're considered melodeath but Wintersun's self titled is amazing. It's their only record and you hear a lot of melodeath, black, power, folk influences on it.

powerslave_85
07-26-2011, 03:50 PM
Okay, we all know where I stand with Arghoslent, but does anyone know what painting that is on the album cover? It's cool.

Dextrimental
07-26-2011, 04:28 PM
Okay, we all know where I stand with Arghoslent, but does anyone know what painting that is on the album cover? It's cool.

"The Course of Empire: Destruction" by Thomas Cole

Epidemic Reign
07-27-2011, 01:10 AM
Cool list. I'm ashamed to say I've never heard of Arghoslent, but I'll be checking them out very soon.

One of my favorite recent melodeath albums is Fragments of Form and Function by Allegaeon from Colorado. It's their debut from last year, and it's very impressive for an American band.

Rocco44
07-27-2011, 01:58 AM
Dissection's Storm of the Lights Bane is essential melodic black/heavy metal or whatever you wanna call it lol

For In Flames, The Jester Race, Whoracle, and Colony are obvious classics.

COB has become shitty ala IF, but Hatebreeder, Follow The Reaper, and Hatecrew Deathroll are good fun.

Sorry for hijacking the thread lol... I'll wait until after you finish your list to say more

I dig Arghoslent but I don't find them amazing like a lot of people seem to think. Most of what seems to be referred to as melodic death metal these days is very lacking on actual death metal. Bands like Arghoslent, Dismember, and Hypocrisy add melody to death metal more organically while current "melodic death" bands rely on super melodic guitar playing and actual death metal is barely noticeable besides in the vocals. That being said, I love both styles and try not to get hung up on genre names lol

Bolt Thrower and Intestinal Baalism are also solid, Wizzbang knows his shit.

Some of my favorites besides previously mentioned:

Dark Tranquillity - The Gallery
At The Gates - Slaughter Of The Soul
Amon Amarth - Versus The World
Insomnium - Above the Weeping World
Kalmah - Swampsong
Arsis - A Celebration of Guilt

I combined all my recs into one post. Here are few lesser known underrated albums:

Mors Principium Est - The Unborn
Nightrage - Sweet Vengeance
Gardenian - Soul Burner
The Fifth Sun - The Hunger To Survive
Be'lakor - The Frail Tide
Eternal Tears Of Sorrow - A Virgin And A Whore
Skyfire - Mind Revolution
Suidakra - Signs For The Fallen

daimonos
07-27-2011, 07:49 AM
[QUOTE=Rocco44;380154]Be'lakor - The Frail Tide
QUOTE]

Incredible band. I've only heard their latest album, but it's some of the most unique melodeath I've heard.

Maideneer
07-31-2011, 04:06 PM
No way I'm letting this thread go without mentioning the following albums that must be listened to repeatedly.

Eucharist - Mirrorworlds
At The Gates - Terminal Spirit Disease
Dawn - Slaughtersun
Naglfar - Vittra
Prophanity - Stronger Than Steel

When you are done with these, congratulate yourself by listening to the coolest and weirdest, totally non-melo death album ever...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NBGYAT4YL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

larvtard
07-31-2011, 06:26 PM
Wow, nobody has even realized yet that manks has zero interest in finding more melodeath...

mankvill
07-31-2011, 06:34 PM
Wow, nobody has even realized yet that manks has zero interest in finding more melodeath...

I asked for recommendations, Logan!

larvtard
07-31-2011, 06:58 PM
I asked for recommendations, Logan!

But you haven't even responded to any of them!

-BEN

Solarian13
08-01-2011, 07:20 PM
Arghoslent are fucking incredible, it's really a shame that they're so bigoted and hateful. They'd probably be HUGE within the metal scene if it weren't for their lyrics and ideology being the way they are... but I suppose that ideology is what drives the music in the first place.

illuminatus917
08-02-2011, 03:01 PM
They'd probably be HUGE within the metal scene if it weren't for their lyrics and ideology being the way they are

That's why they're awesome. Not relinquishing their ideals for the sake of popularity.

evildeadjedi
08-02-2011, 04:32 PM
Would you consider Edge of Sanity melo-death?

mankvill
08-02-2011, 05:37 PM
Would you consider Edge of Sanity melo-death?

linkplz

Solarian13
08-02-2011, 07:27 PM
Would you consider Edge of Sanity melo-death?

linkplz

One of my absolute favorite bands! Some of their stuff could be considered melo-death, some of it not. A few of my favorite songs of theirs for you to check out:

Jesus Cries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VttRwWDuKIU) (from The Spectral Sorrows)

15:36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szjWQvliDtk) (from Infernal)

Aftermath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4aJa87-wDA) (from Crimson II)

When All Is Said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3F96zegyu8) (from Unorthodox)

Twilight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD4S_Dfh3PA) (from Purgatory Afterglow)

zgodt
08-02-2011, 08:39 PM
Why is it admirable, again, to stick with your ideals even when they're abominable?

illuminatus917
08-02-2011, 09:04 PM
Why is it admirable, again, to stick with your ideals even when they're abominable?

You have to realize belief is pure perception. What you consider an abominable ideal isn't necessarily abominable to the person standing beside you.

That in mind, my belief is that the only thing admirable about anything here is Arghoslent's refusal to succumb to the ideals the mainstream would deem "acceptable" for the sole reason of gaining popularity, and forfeit their own ideals, for the same reason, in the process. And that's only from an artistic POV.

powerslave_85
08-02-2011, 09:08 PM
Um, no. Not everyone's opinion has to be respected. Especially not if it's "slavery was pretty awesome and black people are genetically inferior."

illuminatus917
08-02-2011, 09:14 PM
Um, no. Not everyone's opinion has to be respected. Especially not if it's "slavery was pretty awesome and black people are genetically inferior."

I didn't say anything about respecting anyone's opinion. My only point is it's their opinion to have, their ideals, their perspectives. And that's all they are... perspectives. That's all anything is.

powerslave_85
08-02-2011, 09:20 PM
Maybe if no one ever acted on those "perceptions" or used them to harm others, you'd have a point. But we don't live in fantasy world.

mankvill
08-02-2011, 09:44 PM
Um, no. Not everyone's opinion has to be respected. Especially not if it's "slavery was pretty awesome and black people are genetically inferior."

FETTERED TO FAILURE
BY A FLAWED GENOOOME

:shred:

illuminatus917
08-02-2011, 09:51 PM
Maybe if no one ever acted on those "perceptions" or used them to harm others, you'd have a point. But we don't live in fantasy world.

I would just stress that there's no concrete model for anything. And while this isn't necessarily suggesting practicing "acceptance," I do suggest the idea that ideals are going to differ because different people perceive the world in different ways, due to different variables, (i.e.: education, environment, experience, culture, etc), and through these things these variables manifest themselves into imprints. And all imprints are subject to change.

Violent actions under a racist pretense might be horrific to you, but to a tribe in India they might be accepted as legitimate. And in reality, as Nietzsche would say, there is no "center" to base perceptions around, or to justify any single perspective of morality. And for this very reason, one person's idea of "what is right or what is wrong" is no more true than another person's idea of "what is right or what is wrong"

llama lom
08-02-2011, 10:06 PM
I would just stress that there's no concrete model for anything. And while this isn't necessarily suggesting practicing "acceptance," I do suggest the idea that ideals are going to differ because different people perceive the world in different ways, due to different variables, (i.e.: education, environment, experience, culture, etc), and through these things these variables manifest themselves into imprints. And all imprints are subject to change.

Violent actions under a racist pretense might be horrific to you, but to a tribe in India they might be accepted as legitimate. And in reality, as Nietzsche would say, there is no "center" to base perceptions around, or to justify any single perspective of morality. And for this very reason, one person's idea of "what is right or what is wrong" is no more true than another person's idea of "what is right or what is wrong"

I love you.

powerslave_85
08-02-2011, 10:13 PM
We're not talking about ingrained aspects of a foreign culture. We're talking about a bunch of American white guys in a heavy metal band. What's their excuse?

jd091
08-03-2011, 04:28 AM
FETTERED TO FAILURE
BY A FLAWED GENOOOME

:shred:

:rocker:

zgodt
08-03-2011, 05:03 AM
I would just stress that there's no concrete model for anything. And while this isn't necessarily suggesting practicing "acceptance," I do suggest the idea that ideals are going to differ because different people perceive the world in different ways, due to different variables, (i.e.: education, environment, experience, culture, etc), and through these things these variables manifest themselves into imprints. And all imprints are subject to change.

Violent actions under a racist pretense might be horrific to you, but to a tribe in India they might be accepted as legitimate. And in reality, as Nietzsche would say, there is no "center" to base perceptions around, or to justify any single perspective of morality. And for this very reason, one person's idea of "what is right or what is wrong" is no more true than another person's idea of "what is right or what is wrong"

This is all pretty theoretical and wishy-washy, and this kind of argument can be used to wash your hands clean of any horror you like. "Yes, ma'am, Jeffrey Dahmer is eating your son's liver, but there's no "center" to base perceptions around, so his idea of right and wrong is just as true as yours or mine."

I mean, hide behind theory all you want. But it sounds like bullshit to me. And I'm not suggesting they shouldn't have the right to hold their opinion or to spew it in public. I dig me some first amendment freedoms. But what do first amendment advocates always say? The answer to deplorable speech is not censorship, but more and better speech. So if you hear a bunch of racist drivel, and you are a decent person, you shout it down. What does it say about you if, instead, you forgive and embrace it?

larvtard
08-03-2011, 05:29 AM
In some ways, black people are genetically inferior (and in some ways, white people are genetically inferior). That's really all what "racist" means.

jd091
08-03-2011, 05:55 AM
In some ways, black people are genetically inferior (and in some ways, white people are genetically inferior). That's really all what "racist" means.

Um, no, not at all... :tp:


But let's not have this argument.

larvtard
08-03-2011, 06:54 AM
Um, no, not at all... :tp:


But let's not have this argument.

racist: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

illuminatus917
08-03-2011, 12:10 PM
This is all pretty theoretical and wishy-washy, and this kind of argument can be used to wash your hands clean of any horror you like. "Yes, ma'am, Jeffrey Dahmer is eating your son's liver, but there's no "center" to base perceptions around, so his idea of right and wrong is just as true as yours or mine."

I mean, hide behind theory all you want. But it sounds like bullshit to me. And I'm not suggesting they shouldn't have the right to hold their opinion or to spew it in public. I dig me some first amendment freedoms. But what do first amendment advocates always say? The answer to deplorable speech is not censorship, but more and better speech. So if you hear a bunch of racist drivel, and you are a decent person, you shout it down. What does it say about you if, instead, you forgive and embrace it?

It can be hard to wrap your head around, but I reiterate, it's not based on acceptance or on dismissal or on forgiveness or on embracement. These defeat the purpose. It's based on the realization that no idea, no paradigm, no belief, no anything can be taken as definitively true.

"As long as the word “knowledge” has any meaning, the world is knowable; but it is interpretable otherwise... it has no meaning behind it, but countless meanings."

It's normal for us to want our perceptions to compel other perceptions to accept them as normal, however unfeasible. Everyone is immersed in their own reality tunnel.

powerslave_85
08-03-2011, 12:25 PM
Look, it's nice that you took a freshman philosophy class, but that's still a bunch of meaningless bullshit.

mankvill
08-03-2011, 12:39 PM
>2011
>not being racist

i sure hope you guys dont do this

idrinkwine732
08-03-2011, 12:50 PM
It's very easy to commend Arghoslent for maintaining their steadfast ideology, despite that ideology being different from mine or yours, in the face of being successful. I don't see how acknowledgment of fortitude is only okay when the one with fortitude isn't a racist, bigot, etc. We do it in American history all the time.

illuminatus917
08-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Look, it's nice that you took a freshman philosophy class

I doubt you'll find a freshman philosophy class anywhere that takes an in-depth look at Nietzschean Perspectivism, unfortunately.

but that's still a bunch of meaningless bullshit.

Are you by some chance related to DethMaiden?

Dextrimental
08-03-2011, 01:16 PM
Personally, I don't like Arghoslent's music all that much, but I will say that anyone here who judges them on their belief system alone, must have a similar stance on Deicide or Vital Remains, as they perpetuate extremist religious views. Or is bigotry suddenly worse than wanting to eradicate Christianity from the planet?

powerslave_85
08-03-2011, 01:44 PM
I don't think the two things are all that similar, but I don't care for that kind of hatred and prejudice in my music period.

Dextrimental
08-03-2011, 01:52 PM
I don't think the two things are all that similar, but I don't care for that kind of hatred and prejudice in my music period.

Well that's fair enough, but I'm just making the point that if one band is getting chastised for having religious, political or otherwise, beliefs, then surely they all should.

Dislike the band for the music, not for their beliefs.

illuminatus917
08-03-2011, 06:24 PM
Dislike the band for the music, not for their beliefs.

This.

But you haven't even responded to any of them!

-Rain Man

Fixed.

larvtard
08-03-2011, 07:54 PM
Fixed.

HOW...DARE...YOU....

:eek::eek:

zgodt
08-03-2011, 08:20 PM
racist: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

The problem was less about your definition of racism, and more about the scientifically baseless (and morally repugnant) claim that any race is in any way genetically inferior/superior to any other race. The concept of "race" is demonstrable meaningless in terms of genetics. Period.

zgodt
08-03-2011, 08:29 PM
Well that's fair enough, but I'm just making the point that if one band is getting chastised for having religious, political or otherwise, beliefs, then surely they all should.

Dislike the band for the music, not for their beliefs.

Well, it's different in hating a system of belief that people ascribe to rather than hating people just for being who they are... which is pretty significant, as differences go. But sure -- blanket hatred is not going to win a lot of points with me, whoever the targets are.

As for the second part -- "dislike the band for the music, not for their beliefs" -- I mean, you may be a reasonable and intelligent person, but that's not a reasonable or intelligent position. The beliefs are part of the music. For many bands -- and especially for hardcore "message" bands like, say, Arghoslent and Deicide -- the beliefs are the driving force behind the music.

zgodt
08-03-2011, 08:34 PM
It's very easy to commend Arghoslent for maintaining their steadfast ideology, despite that ideology being different from mine or yours, in the face of being successful. I don't see how acknowledgment of fortitude is only okay when the one with fortitude isn't a racist, bigot, etc. We do it in American history all the time.

Well, again, I question whether fortitude for fortitude's sake is such an admirable quality. The Catholic Church really stuck to their guns for centuries on the whole Galileo-and-Copernicus-were-wrong-the-earth-is-the-center-of-the-cosmos thing. Does that make them heroes? Sometimes wrong is just wrong. Sometimes dumb is just dumb. And sticking to it regardless of what everyone says doesn't make you strong or admirable, it just makes you more wrong and more dumb.

zgodt
08-03-2011, 08:36 PM
As for MeloDeath, I'm no expert but I like In Flames and Dark Tranquility and think maybe it's time I checked out some Carcass and At the Gates. :fist:

illuminatus917
08-03-2011, 09:19 PM
HOW...DARE...YOU....

:eek::eek:

I really like that nick name. I think I'll start using it. ;)

Sometimes wrong is just wrong. Sometimes dumb is just dumb. And sticking to it regardless of what everyone says doesn't make you strong or admirable, it just makes you more wrong and more dumb.

You couldn't have made it more obvious that my attempted explanation of perspectives existing besides yours went in one ear and out the other.

zgodt
08-03-2011, 10:40 PM
You couldn't have made it more obvious that my attempted explanation of perspectives existing besides yours went in one ear and out the other.

"Perspectives existing besides [mine]" is something I acknowledge and welcome. That's not at all what you were "explaining".

You were arguing an absolute moral relativism: that no truth or perspective is any more valid than any other. It's not that I didn't hear you. It's that I've heard the same argument countless times before. And that I reject it as intellectually and ethically lazy. I can grant that there's no one absolute claim on truth -- no "center" as Nietzsche would have it. It doesn't follow that we can't use observation, conscience, and reason to determine that some truths are better than others, and some "perspectives" are flat-out wrong and dumb.

illuminatus917
08-04-2011, 12:09 AM
no truth or perspective is any more valid than any other

If you look back at what I wrote, I don't think that's what you'll find. I said "no idea, no paradigm, no belief, no anything can be taken as definitively true," which is correct. That's very different than saying "any idea, any paradigm, any belief, any anything is just as valid as any other idea or any belief or any paradigm, etc." Though I actually do believe it pertains to morality (no one set of morals is any more valid than one other set of morals), but that's strictly because of the falseness of archetypal morality, which happens to be the subject in question here I believe.

Absolute relativism and perspectivism are separate branches of philosophy, but they are similar I suppose. Most importantly, perspectivism, though it implies that there can't be any absolute knowledge of anything (epistemological noumonon), whatever it may be, it does not suggest that every single view is as valid as every single other view.

For example, an absolute relativist might say:

"my grass turns purple when I pee on it."

And if we accepted absolute relativism, we would regard that as 100% true because to an absolute relativist the truth is what you choose it to be, simply because of its relevance in your mind. Under strict Nietzschean perspectivism, usually several legitimate perspectives are possible, thus the interpretation of truths. But if we start discussing "what is legitimate," we're just going to reach platitudes; I find it for the most part equivocal. Rather, as far as Nietzsche is concerned, we can never be sure that we are absolutely right. If we are convinced we're absolutely right, we are much more likely to be absolutely wrong. That's the beauty of this philosophy to me, which is why I find it irritating when folks talk in definitive correctness.

zgodt
08-04-2011, 04:09 AM
...we can never be sure that we are absolutely right. If we are convinced we're absolutely right, we are much more likely to be absolutely wrong.

On this we can agree.

larvtard
08-04-2011, 06:14 AM
Holy shit, I can't wait to take a philosophy class at college :tongue:

mankvill
08-04-2011, 06:32 AM
...
...


COME FORTH YOU SHAMELESS DARK CUNT
APPEAL TO MY MERCY FOR YOUR LIFE
I COMMAND THE HELPLESS DAME
BOUND AND SHACKLED IN CHAINS

Natrlhi
08-04-2011, 06:46 AM
my grass turns purple when I pee on itThen stop peeing on your lawn, you dolt.

Oh, and what the fuck have you been eating?

Epidemic Reign
08-04-2011, 07:07 AM
Would you consider Edge of Sanity melo-death?

Absolutely. As I would consider Crimson and Crimson II the greatest melodeath albums I've ever heard.

illuminatus917
08-04-2011, 08:45 AM
Oh, and what the fuck have you been eating?

ChildrenofSodom's rabbit food. :)

idrinkwine732
08-04-2011, 10:38 AM
Well, again, I question whether fortitude for fortitude's sake is such an admirable quality. The Catholic Church really stuck to their guns for centuries on the whole Galileo-and-Copernicus-were-wrong-the-earth-is-the-center-of-the-cosmos thing. Does that make them heroes? Sometimes wrong is just wrong. Sometimes dumb is just dumb. And sticking to it regardless of what everyone says doesn't make you strong or admirable, it just makes you more wrong and more dumb.

It's not necessarily fortitude for fortitude's sake, it's fortitude in the face of monetary success. They could be big in the metal world, however their ideology does not allow that. I believe the fortitude to not sacrifice your ideology for your band's success is an admirable quality. Wrong can certainly be just wrong, but I don't think that's what's being argued here.

If you look back at what I wrote, I don't think that's what you'll find. I said "no idea, no paradigm, no belief, no anything can be taken as definitively true," which is correct. That's very different than saying "any idea, any paradigm, any belief, any anything is just as valid as any other idea or any belief or any paradigm, etc." Though I actually do believe it pertains to morality (no one set of morals is any more valid than one other set of morals), but that's strictly because of the falseness of archetypal morality, which happens to be the subject in question here I believe.

Absolute relativism and perspectivism are separate branches of philosophy, but they are similar I suppose. Most importantly, perspectivism, though it implies that there can't be any absolute knowledge of anything (epistemological noumonon), whatever it may be, it does not suggest that every single view is as valid as every single other view.

For example, an absolute relativist might say:

"my grass turns purple when I pee on it."

And if we accepted absolute relativism, we would regard that as 100% true because to an absolute relativist the truth is what you choose it to be, simply because of its relevance in your mind. Under strict Nietzschean perspectivism, usually several legitimate perspectives are possible, thus the interpretation of truths. But if we start discussing "what is legitimate," we're just going to reach platitudes; I find it for the most part equivocal. Rather, as far as Nietzsche is concerned, we can never be sure that we are absolutely right. If we are convinced we're absolutely right, we are much more likely to be absolutely wrong. That's the beauty of this philosophy to me, which is why I find it irritating when folks talk in definitive correctness.

:tp:Oh boy how many times have we had this discussion...:tp:;)

treghet
08-04-2011, 02:12 PM
As for MeloDeath, I'm no expert but I like In Flames and Dark Tranquility and think maybe it's time I checked out some Carcass and At the Gates. :fist:

Definitely time! Heartwork is my favorite melodeath album. :rocker:

evildeadjedi
08-04-2011, 06:25 PM
...
...


COME FORTH YOU SHAMELESS DARK CUNT
APPEAL TO MY MERCY FOR YOUR LIFE
I COMMAND THE HELPLESS DAME
BOUND AND SHACKLED IN CHAINS

Hmmm.. sounds like a date I had last year.:cool:


One of my absolute favorite bands! Some of their stuff could be considered melo-death, some of it not. A few of my favorite songs of theirs for you to check out:

Jesus Cries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VttRwWDuKIU) (from The Spectral Sorrows)

15:36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szjWQvliDtk) (from Infernal)

Aftermath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4aJa87-wDA) (from Crimson II)

When All Is Said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3F96zegyu8) (from Unorthodox)

Twilight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD4S_Dfh3PA) (from Purgatory Afterglow)

Hell yes good picks! :rocker:

Absolutely. As I would consider Crimson and Crimson II the greatest melodeath albums I've ever heard.

I figured some of their stuff would qualify. I'm in agreement those albums are bad ass and definitely on my top ten! :rocker:

illuminatus917
08-04-2011, 07:36 PM
:tp:Oh boy how many times have we had this discussion...:tp:;)

I remember one back on the official Mayhem boards about therapeutic philosophy vs. Aristotelian philosophy, or something like that... and that was a fun one.

This is the more traditional "no one can hold a bird's eye view" discussion.

jd091
08-04-2011, 08:57 PM
What happened to this thread?! :eyes:

treghet
08-05-2011, 05:46 PM
What happened to this thread?! :eyes:

Arghoslent happened.

AnataFan4Life
08-05-2011, 06:32 PM
Everyone listen to The Chasm, NAO

orlandodavis
08-05-2011, 08:47 PM
"At Dusk and Forever" by Gates of Ishtar is great.:rocker:

treghet
08-06-2011, 03:36 AM
Forgot to add, Manks you really should get into Hypocrisy. The Final Chapter is my favorite by them. Oh, and they kick ass live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-wDvybJtGk

Solarian13
08-06-2011, 06:32 AM
While maybe not 100% melodeath, Damascus are awesome and totally worth checking out.

Black Sea of Downward Skies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seEnVn7WciE)

A Hopeless Romance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaPoadPu9c8)

Damascus Trail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTJ5wrw1V3I)

Slattern Decapitated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VioVGhs2na4)

JuuKun
08-14-2011, 03:13 PM
Dear everyone in this thread:

Get this album.
http://www.bgimerch.com/store/media/RAINTIME_coverlg.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvLRtmSEPjs
:rocker: