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ChildrenofSodom
05-01-2011, 07:56 PM
It had to be done, I'm sorry. But....

:usa: usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa:

BURN IN HELL, OSAMA!

http://responsiblemarketing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/9-11-firefighers-and-flag-thomas-e-franklin.jpg

IrritatedTrout
05-01-2011, 10:51 PM
Edit: Fuck it, people on Facebook are already giving me a hard time. Don't need it in 2 places haha.

Just be careful when celebrating death, it sows nothing of value.

ChildrenofSodom
05-02-2011, 04:45 AM
Edit: Fuck it, people on Facebook are already giving me a hard time. Don't need it in 2 places haha.

Just be careful when celebrating death, it sows nothing of value.

Yeah, I think it does. He killed 3000 people on US soil. Fuck that guy. Obviously it has implications, but I don't think the act of celebrating his death is bad. I'm sure America celebrated when they heard Hitler was dead, and no one gave them shit about it. This was our Hitler, in a way.

EvilCheeseWedge
05-02-2011, 07:04 AM
Edit: Fuck it, people on Facebook are already giving me a hard time. Don't need it in 2 places haha.

Just be careful when celebrating death, it sows nothing of value.

:fist:

EvilCheeseWedge
05-02-2011, 07:09 AM
Yeah, I think it does. He killed 3000 people on US soil. Fuck that guy. Obviously it has implications, but I don't think the act of celebrating his death is bad. I'm sure America celebrated when they heard Hitler was dead, and no one gave them shit about it. This was our Hitler, in a way.

Maybe people should've given them shit about it, because it's not like there weren't millions of people complicit with what Hitler was doing. But that's besides the point. You know, we've lost more lives in the pursuit of Osama than from anything he did. And even then - "he did" - as if he alone is Al Qaeda. You really think he's had a meaningful impact on that group in the last decade he's spent on the run? Not likely. You really think this one man's death is going to mark the end of terrorism, or is going to mark the end of anything other then the search for Osama?

I personally think it's sad that the one thing that seems to be reverting people into some drunk patriotic stupor is a covert-ops mission against one god damn dude. Fuck everything, America can fuck you up! (For best effect, say that while thrusting your pelvis.)

The dead are still dead.

ChildrenofSodom
05-02-2011, 08:47 AM
I never said that he had an impact over the last decade, or that his death will mean the end of terrorism.

But I am celebrating, and will always celebrate, his death as justice for the thousands who were killed by his command. He was responsible for thousands of innocent deaths on American soil and around the world. He deserved to die for that, and I'm glad the last thing that went through his head when he saw those SEALS was a fucking bullet.

That being said - 9/11 didn't justify the War in Iraq or the death of tens of thousands of innocent Afghan civilians. I won't defend the President against criticisms of the war and Gitmo. The wars are unmanageable, and think now more than ever we need to leave the region. Over time, the war developed into this grandiose mission to wipe out terrorism in general and stabilize the Middle East. I don't support that mission nearly as much as avenging the dead from 9/11. The original intention of the war was to catch those responsible for 9/11. He, and most of his friends, are now dead. Mission accomplished. Time to come home.

And like I said, I'm sure there were drunken celebrations in the streets all across American when Hitler died. My generation has lived our entire teenage and adult lives in a post-9/11 world, where Osama was public enemy #1, and I think we deserve at least one night of celebration. And I'm getting really tired of people busting my balls for doing so. I think we're entitled to an honest and visceral reaction.

EvilCheeseWedge
05-02-2011, 09:01 AM
I'm from the same generation. I was a freshmen in high school on September 11, 2001. But it makes me sad that my generation is finding such great cause for cheer in this. What of this war though? Our futile struggle against terrorism will continue on, claiming yet more lives, breeding yet more terrorists, and in that I cannot find cause to celebrate.

bt11763
05-02-2011, 09:05 AM
Edit: Fuck it, people on Facebook are already giving me a hard time. Don't need it in 2 places haha.

Just be careful when celebrating death, it sows nothing of value.

‎"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain

ChildrenofSodom
05-02-2011, 09:05 AM
I'm from the same generation. I was a freshmen in high school on September 11, 2001. But it makes me sad that my generation is finding such great cause for cheer in this. What of this war though? Our futile struggle against terrorism will continue on, claiming yet more lives, breeding yet more terrorists, and in that I cannot find cause to celebrate.

But people aren't celebrating the war. They are celebrating Osama's death. They are two different things. Its barely been 12 hours since the announcement; like I said, give us some time to celebrate and then we can get back to the discussion of the future.

EvilCheeseWedge
05-02-2011, 09:09 AM
But people aren't celebrating the war. They are celebrating Osama's death. They are two different things. Its barely been 12 hours since the announcement; like I said, give us some time to celebrate and then we can get back to the discussion of the future.
It just seems like a hollow victory. Hey! We killed one of the many people who was responsible for something that happened ten years ago who has since not done anything because he's been on the run and now that he's dead his organization and other like-minded ones will carry on just the same but fuck it party time! :confused:

ChildrenofSodom
05-02-2011, 09:16 AM
I think you're oversimplifying things. Celebrating Osama's death and wanting to bring the troops home/condemning the wars aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

DethMaiden
05-02-2011, 09:20 AM
I honestly felt this way to a lesser degree when we captured Saddam, and the war plan wasn't even to capture Saddam. I like seeing bad people get their just desserts. I know that makes me primeval but I don't really care.

bt11763
05-02-2011, 09:34 AM
I honestly felt this way to a lesser degree when we captured Saddam, and the war plan wasn't even to capture Saddam. I like seeing bad people get their just desserts. I know that makes me primeval but I don't really care.

+1

EvilCheeseWedge
05-02-2011, 11:40 AM
Our reaction to the news last night should be the kind often exhibited by victims’ families at a perpetrator’s lethal injection -- a reaction typically marked by both muted relief but also by sadness over the fact that the perpetrators’ innocent victims are gone forever, the fact that the perpetrator's death cannot change the past, and the fact that our world continues to produce such monstrous perpetrators in the first place.

:light:

DethMaiden
05-02-2011, 11:42 AM
Thank God they didn't send you in for the operation. You never could have made the kill shot from way up on that high horse.

EvilCheeseWedge
05-02-2011, 11:46 AM
Thank God they didn't send you in for the operation. You never could have made the kill shot from way up on that high horse.

Fuck that shit. The dude got everything he deserved, but that doesn't mean we need to have a day of crazed parties about it. If anybody's on a high horse, it's America. We're the ones that say the terrorists, Islamic extremists, et al. are bloodthirsty killers and then we holler and scream when we bag another one.

illuminatus917
05-02-2011, 01:30 PM
But I am celebrating, and will always celebrate, his death as justice for the thousands who were killed by his command. He was responsible for thousands of innocent deaths on American soil and around the world.

If we all wished for and celebrated the deaths of those who kill innocents on foreign soil, every American president of the 20th century (and post) should be sought out, assassinated, and their deaths should be celebrated.

Indestructible
05-02-2011, 01:48 PM
If we all wished for and celebrated the deaths of those who kill innocents on foreign soil, every American president of the 20th century (and post) should be sought out, assassinated, and their deaths should be celebrated.

Except for JFK.

ChildrenofSodom
05-02-2011, 01:49 PM
If we all wished for and celebrated the deaths of those who kill innocents on foreign soil, every American president of the 20th century (and post) should be sought out, assassinated, and their deaths should be celebrated.

Again, with the generalizations. I'm talking about Osama Bin Laden and ONLY Osama Bin Laden. You can have your political debates another time, and I would agree that America has a very poor track record when it comes to killing innocent people in war, as well as covert operations that lead to blowback. BUT, we're not having the discussion. We're not talking about applying a uniform standard to all countries, for all terrorist groups, for the rest of eternity. I'm talking about the United States killing Osama Bin Laden. I don't get why you have to bust my balls for celebrating the death of this objectively bad man.

There are entire websites dedicated to videos of people dying/being killed, as well as the Darwin Awards books, that market the death of individuals (almost all of whom are innocent and "good" people), but no one really bitches about that celebration of death. There wasn't even an outcry of this size when Saddam was hung. Maybe it was because his own people killed him. I don't know. I'm not sure people would be as upset if Osama's own henchmen or the Pakistani army had killed him. Something about America doing it has people pissed off, and I don't get it.

illuminatus917
05-02-2011, 02:04 PM
Except for JFK.

Have you studied Vietnam?

Again, with the generalizations. I'm talking about Osama Bin Laden and ONLY Osama Bin Laden. You can have your political debates another time, and I would agree that America has a very poor track record when it comes to killing innocent people in war, as well as covert operations that lead to blowback. BUT, we're not having the discussion. We're not talking about applying a uniform standard to all countries, for all terrorist groups, for the rest of eternity. I'm talking about the United States killing Osama Bin Laden. I don't get why you have to bust my balls for celebrating the death of this objectively bad man.


No, I understand, and I'm not trying to bust your balls. I just think a similar, and in this case, a standard that's not hypocritical, should be applied when we look at the greater context of what's being discussed here, and we should avoid the application of isolation or marginalization in looking at this context.


EDIT:
Something about America doing it has people pissed off, and I don't get it.

I think it goes back around to the United States' "world police" mentality. A lot of Americans think America thinks it can do whatever it wants whenever it wants however it wants, and maybe they're sick of that image. I doubt many people actually disagree with what was done… it's just reached the point that it looks bad coming from the United States.

Wizzbang11
05-02-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm with Matt and the cheee.

And the conspiracy people just make me disappointed.

Indestructible
05-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Have you studied Vietnam?

JFK was going to get us out but he was killed before that could happen. He was killed before he could do alot of things.

Wizzbang11
05-02-2011, 04:41 PM
JFK was going to get us out but he was killed before that could happen. He was killed before he could do alot of things.

As far as I know he only had plans to reduce troops by 1000, which is far from "getting out" of Vietnam. You're probably basing all this off the Oliver Stone movie, which despite being a very entertaining film is not at all historical fact.

It always baffles me that conspiracy theorists love Kennedy. Is the assassination weird, and ripe for conspiracising? Yes. Is Kennedy anywhere near the tea-party libertarian extremists you worship? Fuck no.

MPF
05-02-2011, 04:54 PM
And there's Oliver Stone. He has a new movie coming out. It is a sequel to Born On The 4th of July. Born On The 4th Of July Part 2: Born On The 5th Of July. Which he promises to be even Julyier then before....what a truly sick individual.

We now go back to Conspiracy Theory on Tru TV....I mean MetalSetlists.

illuminatus917
05-02-2011, 05:00 PM
JFK was going to get us out but he was killed before that could happen. He was killed before he could do alot of things.

I've actually read a decent amount of material that refutes that claim.

For Reasons of State and Rethink Camelot by Chomsky are two. For Reasons of State mostly discusses the Pentagon Papers, which is an unusually rich source. Well, it especially was at the time it came out. It wasn't declassified material, and it was material that wasn't intended to reach the public. It was kind of like tapping into a country's archives. Subsequent documentation was presented in Rethinking Camelot.

Now, calling it the way I see it, the documentation (especially the Pentagon Papers), demonstrates very persuasively, and as close to conclusively as you can come in matters of history, which are almost always somewhat uncertain, that JFK was a hawk on Vietnam. He wanted to get the troops out, but only after victory. Now this is to be distinguished. "Getting us out" and "getting us out after victory" are two very different things." He made it very explicit that he only wanted out after victory, and there's no indication that he had any intention other than that, and furthermore, there's no indication of any significant change after the assassination. The policy continued on course. The same people directed it that had directed it during the Kennedy administration. Basically, there's no evidence of any plans of change, and there's no evidence that anything would've changed had there been no assassination.

JFK belongs on the list of presidents that have committed atrocities. If you really wanted to find an exception to my statement, you would have looked at pre-WWII presidents.

ravenheart
05-02-2011, 05:09 PM
You know, if I'd taken ten years to achieve one thing, I would just say "fucking finally", enjoy the relief without much fanfare and move on.

Just sayin'.

MPF
05-02-2011, 05:13 PM
You know, if I'd taken ten years to achieve one thing, I would just say "fucking finally", enjoy the relief without much fanfare and move on.

Just sayin'.

That's exactly how I feel right now.

It's over. time to do a Ric Flair "WOOOOOOOOOOOO" and get our troops home. Mission accomplish, time to be at peace again. Or at least as much peace as September 10, 2001.

Indestructible
05-02-2011, 05:43 PM
As far as I know he only had plans to reduce troops by 1000, which is far from "getting out" of Vietnam. You're probably basing all this off the Oliver Stone movie.
Im aware he made a movie about JFk, but I have never seen. I haven't seen any movie Oliver Stone made.

Indestructible
05-02-2011, 05:44 PM
JFK belongs on the list of presidents that have committed atrocities.

You could be right, politics is a fucked up thing.

larvtard
05-02-2011, 06:18 PM
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/27525_108315812548046_8092_n.jpg

In all seriousness, you just completely ignored everything he said :lol: And that was one of the worst attempts at a joke I've ever heard...

illuminatus917
05-02-2011, 07:24 PM
It always baffles me that conspiracy theorists love Kennedy. Is the assassination weird, and ripe for conspiracising? Yes. Is Kennedy anywhere near the tea-party libertarian extremists you worship? Fuck no.

Kennedy was a detached and cynical individual, often skeptical of early 60's orthodoxy.

It's fitting he's iconic to conspiracy theorists.


[IMG]
In all seriousness, you just completely ignored everything he said :lol: And that was one of the worst attempts at a joke I've ever heard...

Yeah... not really the response I was looking for. :/

ChildrenofSodom
05-02-2011, 09:48 PM
I had to take a step back from my cheerleading today, when a douchebag walked into a 7pm meeting drunk and said that we should have bathed Osama's body in pork blood.

I didn't sign up to defend that bigotry.

Div
05-03-2011, 10:55 AM
im with cheese for the most part, tho i skimmed through the later half of this thread. when i heard about this i was surprised, but didnt feel any sort of "uh'merika, fuck yea!" bullshit. i mean it really doesnt affect me at all. the american government successfully completed an operation, not the american people, two separate things.

example: these redneck cowboy wannabe motherfuckers who live across the street (not bashing cowboys, because real ones are fucking awesome, but when u live in central jersey and try to act that way it just makes you an attention seeking faggot) threw a huge party all night. some people might see it as americans celebrating a national victory, but i see it as a bunch of losers trying to find an excuse to act cool and drink beer on their porch. i mean, celebrate for something you accomplished, not something that has no real impact on your life.

however, i do agree that when you have an internationally wanted criminal like bin laden, its acceptable to send in special ops teams to take them out. letting him hide behind some third world country's shitty sovereignty laws is bullshit. after all, he broke our laws when he ordered those guys to fly fucking airplanes into our buildings. its like going up to someone and punching them in the nose and then running on to your lawn saying "ha ha, you cant get me because i dont give you permission to enter my property".

tldr: celebrating over deaths is lame, viewing laws of man as absolute axioms is lame.

ChildrenofSodom
05-03-2011, 11:10 AM
Stephen Colbert said it best - "Suck my giant American balls, Al-Qaeda."