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View Full Version : Therion is never going to tour the USA again


Travis The Dragon
11-18-2010, 07:25 PM
Blistering.com: Indeed. Speaking of which, I read on the Net that you are never touring the United States again. Is that still true?

Johnsson: Oh yeah, we're never going to tour the U.S. again. It would be a miracle for us to do that again, like an offer we couldn't refuse. I knew we'd do OK there, but the tours we did [both in support of "Gothic Kabbalah"] had total shithead booking. It was pretty miserable, never too posh. There were about 150-200 people a show and in this economy, it's tough. Hard to get anywhere with this economy. I'm 40 years old. We do well in Europe, great in Latin America. Some people think the United States is essential, but we're not big in Africa either. [laughs] Not touring there takes away a lot of the legwork, and when you do all of that work to tour the States, it's not worth it. Not when you're 40. I have to cut down because I have a kid at home. We can go anywhere, it's totally possible, but we're doing it when we need to.SOURCE (http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=149625)

Can't say I blame them and I wouldn't be surprised if other bands like Triptykon who, when I saw them, had less than 100 people in the audience, decide to do the same in the future.

mankvill
11-18-2010, 07:34 PM
so

MPF
11-18-2010, 07:34 PM
They only usually do one or two big Prog festivals here anyways. That and I never got into Therion, so this does not affect me.

Travis The Dragon
11-18-2010, 07:35 PM
So? I've never seen a band actually make a statement like that.

MPF
11-18-2010, 07:51 PM
So? I've never seen a band actually make a statement like that.

Just look at any Non-North American Metal band that is not a major staple in their genre. They all usually say the same thing. Hell unless they open for a major band, they can't afford to headline here.

Maiden33
11-18-2010, 07:53 PM
A sad reality. I really don't give two shits about Therion, but I 100% understand where they're coming from with an attitude like that.

ChildrenofSodom
11-18-2010, 07:56 PM
American's population density is too small. If we could all shove our fat asses into one area, like Ohio or Kansas, then maybe bands would come here more often. But I would imagine busing around the US would be like touring all of Europe (in distance traveled)....and for not that much reward, I can understand why some bands don't like to come here.

I don't listen Therion, so I don't care.

Indestructible
11-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Therion isn't that well known in the U.S. Im not surprised that they only get 150-200 people a show here.

Blitzkrieg Witchcraft
11-18-2010, 08:24 PM
It's just the reality of the situation. Bands like Therion can't draw flies here because their music appeals to such a small niche audience.

That's why I went to ProgPower X last year. I knew it'd probably be my only chance to ever see Pagan's Mind live.

mNDAS
11-18-2010, 08:36 PM
What?? nobody likes therion??:mad::finger2::confused::grim:

Maiden33
11-18-2010, 08:38 PM
It's just the reality of the situation. Bands like Therion can't draw flies here because their music appeals to such a small niche audience.

That's why I went to ProgPower X last year. I knew it'd probably be my only chance to ever see Pagan's Mind live.

Pagan's Mind are DEFINITELY on the upward trajectory though. Seeing them open for Stratovarius in 2009 was a very odd experience. The crowd response was probably about even for both bands, but you definitely got the feeling like Stratovarius was losing ground, while Pagan's Mind were gaining it. And they certainly made even more fans that night. A full-scale US tour would be a horrible idea, but when they get the next album out, they are planning on coming back over and doing some shows on their own, and if it's fairly well planned, I think the shows will do pretty decent.

Blitzkrieg Witchcraft
11-18-2010, 08:49 PM
I highly doubt Pagan's Mind would travel west of the Mississippi river.

Maiden33
11-18-2010, 09:04 PM
I highly doubt Pagan's Mind would travel west of the Mississippi river.

I don't know, very few bands do North American dates and don't at least play some stuff in California. There's a few other places out there bands normally play, and lately most bands definitely seem to be hitting Texas.

MPF
11-18-2010, 10:13 PM
Pagan's Mind played in MN last year. Unfortuneately, I had a gig that night and I had a free ticket. Fuck how I wish I would have been there.

darkguardian50
11-18-2010, 11:56 PM
Not suprised to see him say that. He basically told me the same thing when I talked to him during the last tour. Ironically though this quote is wrong. Both tours were not for Gothic Kaballah. One was for Lemuria/Sirius B, the other for Gothic Kaballah (which I missed). And he told me that on the first tour and from what it seemed their experience the second time around was even worse.

If they had more fans yeah, but I totally can't blame them. Still they are playing Prog Power so if you really want to see them you can. Same is true of Pain of Salvation, except in Daniel's case it was because of some bullshit anti government ideal.

I just don't get why they aren't more popular. I guess because alot of people can't handle that extreme blending of genre's. Its true of alot of other acts as well so I suppose thats the answer. I DEFINITELY never got why Pain of Salvation wasn't more popular. Never made any sense to me. I can understand it now, since they have gone so far away from what they started as, but not many better prog metal albums than Remedy Lane/Entropia/Perfect Element.

ravenheart
11-19-2010, 01:14 AM
It's really not just America that's the problem. Look at the size of our country. It's smaller than most of your individual states. But most bands can only afford to come here and play one show in London, and some can't even afford to do that.

The reason? The same as in America. People are fucking lazy. Shows do not cost that much unless it's a major arena/stadium show. Most people spend more on beer in one post-work/uni Friday night in the pub than it costs to go to a show. But no one can ever be bothered to check bands out. That's why most bands that are clearly awesome never make it to the heights they should, because the radio doesn't play them and that's the only way most people can be bothered to discover music.

Derelict
11-19-2010, 03:56 AM
They announced this three years ago when their last tour bombed, Fonz.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=83388

Indestructible
11-19-2010, 05:03 AM
It's really not just America that's the problem. Look at the size of our country. It's smaller than most of your individual states. But most bands can only afford to come here and play one show in London, and some can't even afford to do that.

The reason? The same as in America. People are fucking lazy. Shows do not cost that much unless it's a major arena/stadium show. Most people spend more on beer in one post-work/uni Friday night in the pub than it costs to go to a show. But no one can ever be bothered to check bands out. That's why most bands that are clearly awesome never make it to the heights they should, because the radio doesn't play them and that's the only way most people can be bothered to discover music.

I agree with people in America being lazy, but Therion is an obscure metal band(atleast here in the U.S they are), and alot of people don't know who they are. You can find the most diehard metal fan in America and they probably never heard of Therion.

Maiden33
11-19-2010, 06:59 AM
I agree with people in America being lazy, but Therion is an obscure metal band(atleast here in the U.S they are), and alot of people don't know who they are. You can find the most diehard metal fan in America and they probably never heard of Therion.

You're joking right?

Therion isn't even anywhere near the bottom of the popularity bracket. I can find at least one or two their albums in FYE and Best Buy, which easily puts them in a decent spot. Drawing an average of 200 people per show in this country doesn't even begin to qualify them for being truly obscure.

Maiden33
11-19-2010, 07:02 AM
It's really not just America that's the problem. Look at the size of our country. It's smaller than most of your individual states. But most bands can only afford to come here and play one show in London, and some can't even afford to do that.

The reason? The same as in America. People are fucking lazy. Shows do not cost that much unless it's a major arena/stadium show. Most people spend more on beer in one post-work/uni Friday night in the pub than it costs to go to a show. But no one can ever be bothered to check bands out. That's why most bands that are clearly awesome never make it to the heights they should, because the radio doesn't play them and that's the only way most people can be bothered to discover music.

Also, this.

If I HAVE the money to go to a show that interests me, you can bet I'll be there - but many people don't see it the same way. If I can either go out for a really nice dinner or go see a band I like a bit, that's an obvious choice for me. I have never missed a show I really wanted to go to just because I didn't feel like going or something. Also, when I'm forced to start to whittle away shows I plan to go to, I generally select based on rarity of the performance. If it's a band I've never seen and don't think I'm guaranteed a chance to see again, I'm there. Also, if it's a band who I think is only gonna draw 200 or less, I'm there, because I think they need the support more than someone who's gonna pack a 1,500-capacity venue.

Indestructible
11-19-2010, 07:10 AM
You're joking right?

Therion isn't even anywhere near the bottom of the popularity bracket. I can find at least one or two their albums in FYE and Best Buy, which easily puts them in a decent spot. Drawing an average of 200 people per show in this country doesn't even begin to qualify them for being truly obscure.

Maybe it's different in other places in the U.S, but in Buffalo NY where I live it will probably be hard to find a metal fan who knows of Therion.

ChildrenofSodom
11-19-2010, 08:01 AM
Maybe it's different in other places in the U.S, but in Buffalo NY where I live it will probably be hard to find a metal fan who knows of Therion.

I agree. C'mon guys...we're all nerds on a metal message board. Of course we've heard of Therion...but you're telling me the average metal head knows them? No way. If we include the BULK of the metalhead demographic, we include everyone that listens to Killswitch Engage, Dragonforce, and only Iron Maiden. Those people don't know or care about Therion.

Blitzkrieg Witchcraft
11-19-2010, 08:03 AM
I don't know, very few bands do North American dates and don't at least play some stuff in California. There's a few other places out there bands normally play, and lately most bands definitely seem to be hitting Texas.

I would be totally shocked if Pagan's Mind toured through Texas.

Maiden33
11-19-2010, 02:18 PM
I agree. C'mon guys...we're all nerds on a metal message board. Of course we've heard of Therion...but you're telling me the average metal head knows them? No way. If we include the BULK of the metalhead demographic, we include everyone that listens to Killswitch Engage, Dragonforce, and only Iron Maiden. Those people don't know or care about Therion.

What you mentioned is not the true metalhead demographic.

All of my real-life metalhead friends know who Therion at least are, even if they've never heard them, regardless of what specific subgenre(s) of metal they love. They're NOT that underground.

xStructualDefect
11-19-2010, 02:42 PM
What you mentioned is not the true metalhead demographic.

All of my real-life metalhead friends know who Therion at least are, even if they've never heard them, regardless of what specific subgenre(s) of metal they love. They're NOT that underground.

i'd have to agree with Children of Sodom. i'm pretty sure if you ask the average metalhead at a show they'll have no idea who Therion is. as for Maiden33 i'm pretty sure your metalhead friends know who they are because i'm pretty sure most of your friends listen to progressive and power metal. i don't know you personally but i'm just assuming. and even though Therion are not prog or power metal, most fans of those genres know who Therion is. so that'll probably explain why most of your friends know them.

DethMaiden
11-19-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm with Indestructible/CoS/xStructual here. How many people at a DragonForce show or a Lamb of God show or Disturbed show own 500 metal albums and listen to bands we all like on here? Very few, I'm guessing. Yet how many of those people consider themselves metalheads? Damn near all of them.

Maiden33
11-19-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm with Indestructible/CoS/xStructual here. How many people at a DragonForce show or a Lamb of God show or Disturbed show own 500 metal albums and listen to bands we all like on here? Very few, I'm guessing. Yet how many of those people consider themselves metalheads? Damn near all of them.

Again, the point has been missed I think. I'm not trying to argue in the least that everyone knows who Therion is - that's FAR from the truth. But all my friends who I consider to be metal fans at least know who they are, even though almost none of them are even fans. Half the people at Lamb of God/Disturbed shows have no idea who the majority of the bands I listen to are. But that doesn't mean they're all incredibly underground. Many of them tour the states and play to 500-1,500 people each night. That's NOT that underground. Just because they're not either hip or old enough to just assume respect/"legend" status doesn't mean "they're only a band nerdy message board metal fans have even heard of".

Edit: I like how I'm arguing for the validity of a band I don't even like.

Double Edit: According to Blabbermouth - the newest Therion album sold as many copies in the US in its first week as the last Metal Church album, nearly 2 years ago.

Maiden33
11-19-2010, 04:50 PM
I would be totally shocked if Pagan's Mind toured through Texas.

I definitely wouldn't. A few of the people in the ProgPower community (promoters and such) who are really up PM's ass are actually from Texas. If their 2011 US tour attempt is more than 8-10 cities, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Travis The Dragon
11-19-2010, 05:15 PM
They announced this three years ago when their last tour bombed, Fonz.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=83388

So, it's basically bullshit from them just to draw interest. Didn't seem to work too well.

ChildrenofSodom
11-19-2010, 06:46 PM
But all my friends who I consider to be metal fans at least know who they are, even though almost none of them are even fans. Half the people at Lamb of God/Disturbed shows have no idea who the majority of the bands I listen to are.

I've never heard of 75% of the bands you listen to.

Maiden33
11-19-2010, 06:50 PM
I've never heard of 75% of the bands you listen to.

Listen to? Maybe. But if I were to list my 30 favorite bands, I'm gonna assume you've at least heard of all but a few of them, and I could probably guess exactly which couple those are. I won't deny that I listen to some really "underground" shit, but that comment was regarding that fact that the "metal fans" in question in this conversation have probably never even heard of bands like Blind Guardian, Helloween, Kamelot, Stratovarius, and Symphony X - some of the most popular bands in the subgenre I identify most with. They all tour the US and play to good crowds and are in no way truly underground.

darkguardian50
11-19-2010, 07:46 PM
So, it's basically bullshit from them just to draw interest. Didn't seem to work too well.

Someone asked Chris and he answered....I'd probably have asked the same thing, since I want them to tour the US again sometime, even though I suspect they never will.

Indestructible
11-19-2010, 10:20 PM
I won't deny that I listen to some really "underground" shit, but that comment was regarding that fact that the "metal fans" in question in this conversation have probably never even heard of bands like Blind Guardian, Helloween, Kamelot, Stratovarius, and Symphony X - some of the most popular bands in the subgenre I identify most with. They all tour the US and play to good crowds and are in no way truly underground.

Blind Guardian, Symphony X, Helloween,Kamelot and Stratovarius are definetly underground. Therion is undergroud to, just like I said earlier in this thread. Just because you listen to all these bands, doesn't mean that everyone else knows who they are. I listen to Nevermore and obscure female fronted goth metal bands, and I can accept that pretty much every metalhead I talk to do not know those bands exsist. Therion is probably well known in euorpe and places like that, but they are definetly obscure in the U.S

Maiden33
11-20-2010, 05:20 AM
Blind Guardian, Symphony X, Helloween,Kamelot and Stratovarius are definetly underground. Therion is undergroud to, just like I said earlier in this thread. Just because you listen to all these bands, doesn't mean that everyone else knows who they are.

1) I didn't imply that since I listen to these bands, everyone else knows who they are. Not at all.

2) Ultimately I guess this depends on your definition of "underground". Considering the scope of bands out there, a band signed to a good label that tours America and plays to 800+ people every night is NOT underground to me. Blind Guardian's newest album sold 4,500 copies in the US in its first week of release and actually charted on Billboard.

Sepultura69
11-20-2010, 08:07 AM
Blind Guardian, Symphony X, Helloween,Kamelot and Stratovarius are definetly underground. Therion is undergroud to, just like I said earlier in this thread. Just because you listen to all these bands, doesn't mean that everyone else knows who they are. I listen to Nevermore and obscure female fronted goth metal bands, and I can accept that pretty much every metalhead I talk to do not know those bands exsist. Therion is probably well known in euorpe and places like that, but they are definetly obscure in the U.S

I wouldn't call Stratovarious Underground.... There probably the most legendary "Powermetal" Band of all time when it comes to the genre. All my friends here are hardcore Strato heads and have seen the band EVERYTIME they come here to play in america....which sadly....isn't alot(they always invite me to come but sadly I'm not down with Powermetal). But I definitely would not call Stratovarious UNDERGROUND....not in the least....They are one of the most famous powermetal bands of all time. I hate Powermetal(The only time I listen to it is when I'm forced too like sitting in a friends car or someone I'm kicking it with happends to be blasting it in my face...which sadly happens alot...) but I just felt like clearing that up

EDIT:Stratovarious had a show last year in America at the Key Club in Hollywood....Show sold out in seconds....

Indestructible
11-20-2010, 08:15 AM
I wouldn't call Stratovarious Underground.... There probably the most legendary "Powermetal" Band of all time when it comes to the genre. All my friends here are hardcore Strato heads and have seen the band EVERYTIME they come here to play in america....which sadly....isn't alot(they always invite me to come but sadly I'm not down with Powermetal). But I definitely would not call Stratovarious UNDERGROUND....not in the least....They are one of the most famous powermetal bands of all time. I hate Powermetal(The only time I listen to it is when I'm forced too like sitting in a friends car or someone I'm kicking it with happends to be blasting it in my face...which sadly happens alot...) but I just felt like clearing that up

EDIT:Stratovarious had a show last year in America at the Key Club in Hollywood....Show sold out in seconds....

I don't like power metal, though Blind Guardian is really good. I think Dragonforce is a little power metal, atleast lyrically. I think alot of power metal is underground. I'd be surprised if the metalheads I talked to know who Stratovarious is.