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View Full Version : The Great Baroness Debate


Natrlhi
02-16-2010, 09:10 AM
Pick one above. Feel free to explain below, if you like. Go!

DethMaiden
02-16-2010, 09:25 AM
Red, by a narrow margin. It's less coherent than Blue as an album experience, but almost every individual song is better than any individual song on Blue. I love both and I appreciate Blue for what it is but I think Red is the superior album.

Natrlhi
02-16-2010, 09:26 AM
Red, by a narrow margin. It's less coherent than Blue as an album experience, but almost every individual song is better than any individual song on Blue. I love both and I appreciate Blue for what it is but I think Red is the superior album.

Well stated.

Wrong, but well stated.

(Just kidding ;))

JRA
02-16-2010, 10:42 AM
I am a wussy, please don't make me pick one!

In all seriousness, when I first heard the Red Album, I didn't see what the big deal was. There were way to many soft (and boring) moments for me to hail it as the second coming of Remission era Mastodon. In fact the only reason I think I went on to buy Blue in the first place was reading a review on Blue Record with the exact same feelings as mine on Red. So I figured Blue was the better record, people were just too stupid and snooty to realize it. At first I thought Blue blew Red away, but after going back and listening to Red, I began to appreciate some of the parts that I previously thought were flaws. That and upon repeat listens of Blue, some of it's flaws become apparent. So I put them on equal footing

By the way- Subliminal mind control: the next time you hear that opening riff to Horse Called Golgotha, you will think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JhyjQQ9Pcw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7C64j8d34U)

powerslave_85
02-16-2010, 10:43 AM
Blue by a narrow margin.

Natrlhi
02-16-2010, 11:10 AM
By the way- Subliminal mind control: the next time you hear that opening riff to Horse Called Golgotha, you will think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JhyjQQ9Pcw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7C64j8d34U)I always thought that Gap commercial was cute, but I don't see the connection to Baroness - so I'm guessing you're trying to get into my head and make me associate two completely different things, just for the hell of it. Well it ain't gonna work, son. I have a mind like a steel sieve, and a rapist wit to boot. So there.

JRA
02-16-2010, 11:47 AM
I always thought that Gap commercial was cute, but I don't see the connection to Baroness - so I'm guessing you're trying to get into my head and make me associate two completely different things, just for the hell of it. Well it ain't gonna work, son. I have a mind like a steel sieve, and a rapist wit to boot. So there.

I'm sorry, but it's just the gayest goddamn riff I've ever heard. That riff sounds like it belongs in a fashion commerical, not on an album, hence why I posted the Gap Commercial. In fact dare I say the song would be much better if they just chopped that part off.

Natrlhi
02-16-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm sorry, but it's just the gayest goddamn riff I've ever heard. That riff sounds like it belongs in a fashion commerical, not on an album, hence why I posted the Gap Commercial. In fact dare I say the song would be much better if they just chopped that part off.

Oh, so you WERE serious! ;)

Well, I guess I see what you mean a little bit, but if you notice, what they're basically doing - and a lot of bands do this - is introducing the "backbone" of the riffs in the rest of the song, in a very rudimentary way, in the beginning. So they take those few simple chords that you hear all by themselves (and according to you, sound kind of weird or out of place without any texture around them), and then they build on those same chords to create the more complex riffs which are used in the rest of the song. I can see why those simple chords played all by themselves in that fashion might not be the most "metal" thing in the world in some opinions, but I didn't mind it. I mean, it happens rather quickly, and then they launch into one of the best songs on the album and start destroying shit left and right soon enough, so it all good, right? I think maybe it's just that the little details get under your skin in a little different way than most folks, is all. I'm not judgin', I'm just sayin'. :D

JRA
02-16-2010, 01:24 PM
Oh, so you WERE serious! ;)

Well, I guess I see what you mean a little bit, but if you notice, what they're basically doing - and a lot of bands do this - is introducing the "backbone" of the riffs in the rest of the song, in a very rudimentary way, in the beginning. So they take those few simple chords that you hear all by themselves (and according to you, sound kind of weird or out of place without any texture around them), and then they build on those same chords to create the more complex riffs which are used in the rest of the song.

a) I am not stupid. I know how riffs work.

b) But that's my point, the rest of the song doesn't sound anything like that riff. I don't hear the chord progression at all.

Natrlhi
02-16-2010, 01:44 PM
Dude, I never said you were stupid. Not even close. I have no idea where that's coming from.

Anyway, the chord progression is there, I assure you. That's why i gave you the explanation that I did - because I heard it. It's not immediately obvious, but it is there. Baroness does this kind if thing all the time.

powerslave_85
02-16-2010, 01:46 PM
I still don't get the whole "it sounds like a fashion commercial" thing. I love it, and think it fits the song perfectly.

JRA
02-16-2010, 01:57 PM
Dude, I never said you were stupid. Not even close. I have no idea where that's coming from.

I guess I just interpreted your explanation as condescending. My apologies.

idrinkwine732
02-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Red, by a narrow margin. It's less coherent than Blue as an album experience, but almost every individual song is better than any individual song on Blue. I love both and I appreciate Blue for what it is but I think Red is the superior album.

I almost completely agree with this, but I still went with Blue. I am one of those people that prefer a whole album experience, as opposed to specific songs. Whenever I listen to Blue, it just seems more right than listening to Red. I can't really explain it.

TonyD
02-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Too tired to get into this right now... but you know where I stand

Natrlhi
02-16-2010, 05:14 PM
I guess I just interpreted your explanation as condescending. My apologies.

NP

idrinkwine732
02-16-2010, 05:56 PM
Horse Called Golgatha is my fave track off of Blue, and that riff always peps me up.

mankvill
02-16-2010, 06:05 PM
I've only heard Red!

idrinkwine732
02-16-2010, 06:11 PM
I've only heard Red!

Well there's your problem....

Natrlhi
02-16-2010, 06:12 PM
I've only heard Red!An unfortunate condition, but one which has a simple cure. GET ON THAT SHIT, BRO!!!

jhdeity
02-25-2010, 11:13 AM
For me the difference came with several listens. I loved Blue Record the 1st time I heard it but after several listens it kinda bored me towards the end. It has it's moments and Jake Leg actually grew on me a little but I'm all about great songs and I think there are more great songs on Red Album.

Can't wait to finally see them live and hope they play some older shit too

ADD
02-25-2010, 11:32 AM
With what little time has passed Red Album is still my preference, Blue has not held my interest.

Div
02-25-2010, 01:24 PM
I'm sorry, but it's just the gayest goddamn riff I've ever heard. That riff sounds like it belongs in a fashion commerical, not on an album, hence why I posted the Gap Commercial. In fact dare I say the song would be much better if they just chopped that part off.

if you want to criticize that song how about we discuss that horrible out of place solo in the later part of it. that for me is what killed the song. the song was going along fine and then this downtuned solo comes out of nowhere, one of the worst transitions i can think of outside of "immigrant song" imo.

zgodt
02-26-2010, 10:31 PM
Honestly, I don't know what people are talking about when they mention all the 'great songs' on the Red Album. I think the best tracks on it are the instrumentals ("Aleph" and "Grad" in particular). I think half of it kinda sucks, to be honest. Whereas I think most of the Blue Record is genius. So much more and better use of counterpoint, the lead guitar tone is the most badass I've ever heard, the vocal melodies are better, the structures are cooler... it's not much of a contest for me.

TonyD
02-27-2010, 07:44 AM
^ The first 3 are about as strong of an opening as you can have for any album, but for me the thing is that the Red Album works best as a single work. Blue Record has a great continuity and flow, but Red is a 45 minute experience as opposed to 45 minutes of songs that link together.
I've heard Blue enough times that I can actually compare the two now, and the songs are well constructed and powerful, but I still prefer Red.

JRA
02-27-2010, 09:12 AM
Honestly, I don't know what people are talking about when they mention all the 'great songs' on the Red Album. I think the best tracks on it are the instrumentals ("Aleph" and "Grad" in particular). I think half of it kinda sucks, to be honest. Whereas I think most of the Blue Record is genius. So much more and better use of counterpoint, the lead guitar tone is the most badass I've ever heard, the vocal melodies are better, the structures are cooler... it's not much of a contest for me.

Aleph is good, Grad is kinda boring.

Personally, I think the people who are whining that the Red Album is better are just butthurt that their little secret is "famous" now.

ADD
02-27-2010, 10:55 AM
the lead guitar tone is the most badass I've ever heard, the vocal melodies are better
Know how I know you're old and square? :D ;)

ADD
02-27-2010, 11:00 AM
Aleph is good, Grad is kinda boring.

Personally, I think the people who are whining that the Red Album is better are just butthurt that their little secret is "famous" now.

Nah, its just that apart from the Bullhead theme, guitar harmony in Sweetest Curse, the first riff in Horse Called Golgotha, and the beginning/buildup of The Gnashing there aren't any parts that make me go "wow" like the main riff in Isak, the mellow break in Wanderlust, the middle to end of Birthing, all of Aleph and Teeth of a Cogwheel, the chord progression in the verse riff of O'Appalachia, that bluesy lick in Wailing Wintry Wind, shit like that. Hella transcendent moments on the Red, not so many on the Blue, which is an album more focused on the songs rather than the whole record.

Natrlhi
03-01-2010, 06:07 AM
Know how I know you're old and square? :D ;)

Know how I know you're gay? Because you just macraméed yourself a pair of jean shorts. :D ;)

ADD
03-01-2010, 11:01 AM
Know how I know you're gay? Because you just macraméed yourself a pair of jean shorts. :D ;)
:lol: Good movie :D