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View Full Version : Trans-Siberian Orchestra -- Tampa, FL -- December 6th, 2009


Spiral_Slave
12-06-2009, 07:03 PM
Well first off, it was my first time seeing them and it was a great show. BUT, there was one massive fail. They promised us a "big hometown surprise" at the end of the show, and told every one to make sure they didn't leave early. Naturally, I figured it would be something Savatage related. Hence, my total shock and disgust when they bring out....JOE WALSH?! It was the biggest WTF ever, and he did two songs with them and it was total garbage. I hate The Eagles, and TSO missed an opportunity to do something cool. Also, TSO should stop covering "Believe" instantly, and replace it with "What Child Is This?"

Anyway, the setlist was...

01. Night Enchanted
02. March Of The Kings / Hark The Herald Angels Sing
03. An Angel Came Down
04. O Come All Ye Faithful / O Holy Night
05. The Prince Of Peace
06. First Snow
07. A Mad Russian's Christmas
08. Christmas Eve / Sarajevo 12/24
09. Good King Joy
10. Ornament
11. Old City Bar
12. Promises To Keep
13. This Christmas Day
14. An Angel Returned
15. Epilogue

--------- End Of The First Set ---------

01. Toccata - Carpimus Noctem
02. The Mountain
03. Believe
04. Queen Of The Winter Night
05. Moonlight And Madness
06. Siberian Sleigh Ride
-- Drum Solo --
07. Wizards In Winter
08. Mozart / Figaro
09. Christmas Canon Rock
10. Requiem (The Fifth)
11. Life's Been Good (With Joe Walsh
12. Rocky Mountain Way (With Joe Walsh)
13. Christmas Eve / Sarajevo 12/24 (Reprise)

TonyD
12-06-2009, 07:18 PM
So you hate the fuckin Eagles, man?

BlackmoreOfBowling
12-06-2009, 08:11 PM
I hate The Eagles

First of all, "Rocky Mountain Way" and "Life's Been Good" aren't Eagles songs. Second, Joe Walsh is a legendary guitar player who only played with the Eagles on 3 of their albums. He was vital in fusing a hybrid of funk and hard rock in the late 60s/early 70s with the James Gang (this technique would later catch on with bands like Deep Purple, and other prototypical heavy metal bands) and even taught Jimmy Page slide guitar. Say what you will about the Eagles, but his solo on "Hotel California" remains as one of the most fresh and cathartic solos charted.

Honestly, he's one of the finest surviving Classic Rock guitar players of this day and age and a hell of a guy to boot, and you're just butthurt that Caffery didn't play material from a band that maybe 3-5% of the audience knows existed...

mankvill
12-06-2009, 08:22 PM
First of all, "Rocky Mountain Way" and "Life's Been Good" aren't Eagles songs. Second, Joe Walsh is a legendary guitar player who only played with the Eagles on 3 of their albums. He was vital in fusing a hybrid of funk and hard rock in the late 60s/early 70s with the James Gang (this technique would later catch on with bands like Deep Purple, and other prototypical heavy metal bands) and even taught Jimmy Page slide guitar. Say what you will about the Eagles, but his solo on "Hotel California" remains as one of the most fresh and cathartic solos charted.

Honestly, he's one of the finest surviving Classic Rock guitar players of this day and age and a hell of a guy to boot, and you're just butthurt that Caffery didn't play material from a band that maybe 3-5% of the audience knows existed...

damn sucka u just got served

Maiden33
12-06-2009, 08:30 PM
First of all, "Rocky Mountain Way" and "Life's Been Good" aren't Eagles songs. Second, Joe Walsh is a legendary guitar player who only played with the Eagles on 3 of their albums. He was vital in fusing a hybrid of funk and hard rock in the late 60s/early 70s with the James Gang (this technique would later catch on with bands like Deep Purple, and other prototypical heavy metal bands) and even taught Jimmy Page slide guitar. Say what you will about the Eagles, but his solo on "Hotel California" remains as one of the most fresh and cathartic solos charted.

Honestly, he's one of the finest surviving Classic Rock guitar players of this day and age and a hell of a guy to boot, and you're just butthurt that Caffery didn't play material from a band that maybe 3-5% of the audience knows existed...

My personal stance on this argument aside: You don't have to like someone just because of their "influence" on other music you may or may not like.

Second, you don't promise a big surprise and bring out someone from a completely unrelated band that has nothing to do with your own music. It's the same as when Mike Portnoy promises big surprises at Dream Theater shows and brings on the members of the other bands they're touring with. It's unique, yes, but to the grand majority of the band's fans, it's not special. TSO doesn't know how to do anything special aside from bringing out token classic rock musicians and play random cover songs.
How about, instead of doing this crap, along with some of their own mediocre stuff, why don't they actually start playing some of their own great material that they've been ignoring for years while constantly doing the same show every single year.

My TSO rants are kinda lengthy and this is merely a fraction of all the problems I have.

rjturtle9
12-06-2009, 08:39 PM
damn i wanted to see this :mad:

mankvill
12-06-2009, 08:46 PM
If you people actually think that the majority of people at a TSO show go because they are fans of Savatage and not just because it's Christmas music with cool visuals, you are sorely mistaken. That's why it was Joe Walsh.

BlackmoreOfBowling
12-06-2009, 08:57 PM
It's unique, yes, but to the grand majority of the band's fans, it's not special.

Why don't we ask ourselves if the Trans-Siberian Orchestra is really a band? I'd say it's a cultural event more than anything (hence their performance of the same show each year), and it happens to appeal to fans of traditional heavy metal and beyond all due to the presence of a few people that have happened to have a presence in a few bands of the genre. If Trans-Siberian Orchestra is truly a band, then we should just as well dub Andrew Lloyd Webber as a "Rockstar", no? The principles are all the same.

Dimebag_Rusty
12-06-2009, 09:01 PM
I have seen the Trans-Siberian Orchestra a bunch of times now, and I wouldnt mind at all if they did something like this in Toronto. Who cares if its not Savatage related. Are you seeing Savatage? No. Believe is a great song (especialy when sung by Tim Hockenberry) and a nice way to spice things up with a Savatage tune. People who go to see TSO for the majority dont go to rock out and get wasted, they go to hear Christmas music done in a different way than what you hear in commercials, movies, radio, etc. Mostly families go see them, I would say that a very small amount of people go for the Savatage factor. Should they also play some Testament songs? Maybe a Metal Church tune or two?

idrinkwine732
12-06-2009, 09:07 PM
You hate The Eagles? What?

Maiden33
12-06-2009, 10:36 PM
I don't think I have ever seen more people more missing the point.

@ Mankvill: I don't.

@ BlackmoreofBowling: How the fuck are you even considering the notion that TSO isn't a band? A long time before it became the absolute cash-grabbing phenomenon that it is today, TSO (aka Savatage, as it originally was, with varying singers) produced albums that, in addition to rearranging traditional Christmas songs, featured a lot of original songs (GREAT songs, I might add), wrapped in a conceptual package. The thought of not considering them an actual band seems like a preposterous idea to me. Maybe it's because I actually care about their own songs, as if it were any other band, Christmas-related or not.

@ Dimebag Rusty: No one cares that it's not Savatage related. At least I don't, I care that it's just random classic rock fodder that has nothing to do with what TSO is about. I actually would prefer TSO did less Savatage material, which is a subject I've not even touched on (though the absolutely horrendous rendition of Believe is a start). I need not even mention how stupid it is to bring Testament/Metal Church (or fuck, given the other former/current projects of touring TSO members: Megadeth, Yngwie Malmsteen, Journey, and Artension) into this discussion, because even if I were suggesting they do more Savatage material (which I'm not), it's not the same thing because the member's participation in each of those bands was minimal, or at least just one member, as opposed to the fact that the first 3 entire TSO albums were the exact lineup of Savatage, verbatim, aside from the additional varying vocalists.
Also, you mention families going to see them not being into metal/Savatage. I don't know about you, but my Grandmother doesn't know who Joe Walsh is either, nor would she, or pretty much any other member of my family care about seeing him perform two songs. I'm not personally outing him, but I mean to be honest at least most of the rest of the time TSO does something like this, it's at least for a real star with real hits. Not condoning it in general, but I guarantee you that the majority of the audience at this show were either indifferent or negative to the guest spot and deviation from general theme.

mankvill
12-06-2009, 11:23 PM
Not condoning it in general, but I guarantee you that the majority of the audience at this show were either indifferent or negative to the guest spot and deviation from general theme.

No fucking way. The Eagles are crazy popular with "old people".

Maiden33
12-06-2009, 11:27 PM
No fucking way. The Eagles are crazy popular with "old people".

Yes, they are. But as has been established here, neither of these two songs were actually Eagles songs. I'm sure if they would've played Hotel California or something, the 40+ set would've loved it, but it's not quite the same thing. Casual music fans don't care if someone played with someone, they just want to hear the couple of radio hits they know.

jhdeity
12-07-2009, 07:15 AM
I enjoy these kind of debates and think we need more of them personally.

Being one of the "old people" what Joe Walsh really means to me is James Gang. He is a musical genius for writing some of those riffs alone. I remember being 8 years old and seeing the James Gang Rides Again album with just those words on the cover and thinking WTF is this stupid shit? I threw the album on and when Funk #49 kicked in I was floored. I threw on the other album my brother had Thirds and the 1st song was Walk Away which was another incredible riff but catchier. To me James Gang was as influential on music as Steppenwolf, Deep Purple, Mountain and other bands from that era but rarely ever get credit for it.

That being said I bet if you polled the crowd before the show and asked them if they would rather have Joe Walsh come out and play Rocky Mountain Way and Life's Been Good or have the band play Gutter Ballet and Hall of the Mountain King it would have been at least 80% Joe Walsh.

I like Savatage but if you grew up in the 80's and had to be subjected to that hideous video for HotMK every single week on Headbangers Ball you would feel my pain. Vote for Joe! hahaha

Maiden33
12-07-2009, 07:21 AM
I enjoy these kind of debates and think we need more of them personally.

Being one of the "old people" what Joe Walsh really means to me is James Gang. He is a musical genius for writing some of those riffs alone. I remember being 8 years old and seeing the James Gang Rides Again album with just those words on the cover and thinking WTF is this stupid shit? I threw the album on and when Funk #49 kicked in I was floored. I threw on the other album my brother had Thirds and the 1st song was Walk Away which was another incredible riff but catchier. To me James Gang was as influential on music as Steppenwolf, Deep Purple, Mountain and other bands from that era but rarely ever get credit for it.

That being said I bet if you polled the crowd before the show and asked them if they would rather have Joe Walsh come out and play Rocky Mountain Way and Life's Been Good or have the band play Gutter Ballet and Hall of the Mountain King it would have been at least 80% Joe Walsh.

I like Savatage but if you grew up in the 80's and had to be subjected to that hideous video for HotMK every single week on Headbangers Ball you would feel my pain. Vote for Joe! hahaha

I completely see your point, but as I said, to me, this isn't about Savatage material vs. Joe Walsh, but moreso I'm just kinda upset that instead of doing more of their own material (and great material at that) that they've been ignoring every year by doing the same show, they bring out these token classic rock artists, and it just doesn't fit with what the rest of the show is about.

DethMaiden
12-07-2009, 07:27 AM
I want to say "how the mighty have fallen" but I don't know that there was ever anything noble about Trans-Siberian Orchestra. The atrocious Believe cover and the completely asinine guest appearance, in Tampa where they could have gotten any member from Savatage not to mention about twenty significant death metal bands no less, makes me contented not to ever spend another penny on their sorry asses.

SomewhereInTime72
12-07-2009, 07:33 AM
I thought the token classic rock appearance when I went to see TSO 2 years ago was cool. Sucks to be you guys. :)

edit: that may be because Roger Daltrey and Who covers are way better than this though

Grimjack
12-07-2009, 08:01 AM
Back to the SET list, for those who care, it was the same exact show on the same date in Arizona minus Joe Walsh and those two cover tunes. Plus, instead of Believe, we got Jeff Scott Soto singing Dreams We Conceive. For my money, I wish TSO would use their vocalists more in the second half of the show; too many instrumentals for my taste.

Maiden33
12-07-2009, 08:05 AM
Back to the SET list, for those who care, it was the same exact show on the same date in Arizona minus Joe Walsh and those two cover tunes. Plus, instead of Believe, we got Jeff Scott Soto singing Dreams We Conceive. For my money, I wish TSO would use their vocalists more in the second half of the show; too many instrumentals for my taste.

Yeah, I saw that they were doing Dreams with JSS, which frankly is better than them (vocally) slaughtering Believe. It's one of the better songs on Night Castle.

And you are dead on about the second half of the show. It bothers me that they hire 8-10 vocalists to come on tour with them and barely use any of them. Again, especially since they have a lot of great songs which they could use them for. Case in point here is Rob Evan, who is now touring with East TSO singing An Angel Came Down/Returned. Rob sang What Child Is This, Back to a Reason, What is Christmas, Epiphany, and There Was a life on record, all of which are some of TSO's best songs. Yet Rob does nothing else in the show because they don't play any of these songs. It's just a waste.

Grimjack
12-07-2009, 08:10 AM
It really is sad how they waste their vocalists. People leave saying that it was a good show, but the second half is what prevents people from leaving saying that it was the best show they've ever seen.

mzinn85
12-07-2009, 09:24 AM
Hey if the dude hates the eagles, then so do I.

SomewhereInTime72
12-07-2009, 09:28 AM
What Child Is This, Back to a Reason

Seriously, these two songs need to be played. Like seriously.

Spiral_Slave
12-07-2009, 10:13 AM
First of all, "Rocky Mountain Way" and "Life's Been Good" aren't Eagles songs. Second, Joe Walsh is a legendary guitar player who only played with the Eagles on 3 of their albums. He was vital in fusing a hybrid of funk and hard rock in the late 60s/early 70s with the James Gang (this technique would later catch on with bands like Deep Purple, and other prototypical heavy metal bands) and even taught Jimmy Page slide guitar. Say what you will about the Eagles, but his solo on "Hotel California" remains as one of the most fresh and cathartic solos charted.

Honestly, he's one of the finest surviving Classic Rock guitar players of this day and age and a hell of a guy to boot, and you're just butthurt that Caffery didn't play material from a band that maybe 3-5% of the audience knows existed...

Dude, who the fuck are you? Maybe if you'd take Joe Walsh's balls out of your mouth for a few seconds you'd realize that people have other tastes. Did I say Joe Walsh was a shitty person, and has not influenced anything? No, I said I personally hate The Eagles, and it was IN MY OPINION a stupid thing to do at a Trans-Siberian Orchestra show. Fuck you.

And secondly, I realized TSO's main audience demographic is older people who are all about Joe Walsh, but come on. They promised us a " hometown surprise " and even specifically mentioned Jon Oliva and others were in the building. I'm not taking away anything from people who like Joe Walsh or whatever, but being a big Savatage fan how can you guys not understand what I am saying?

darkguardian50
12-08-2009, 04:07 AM
TSO is sadly not directed at Savatage fans or even metal fans. I think its going to be interesting to see how they handle their non seasonal tour in the spring because I think that will be more of a metal crowd.

I have seen them every year for 8 years and aside from one year down here it was always the east coast group. Its always a good show. I definitely think they need to do more vocal songs in their second half. Its gotten way to instrumental heavy. I don't understand WHY they even did The Mountain. Its completely out of place as a TSO song. Its to heavy for their target audience and Chris is a fine guitarist but he can not pull off that song live, Criss could.

Believe is a different story. Most everyone I talked to considered that the highlight of the show. Hockenberry did a really good job. And he especially kills it live. On the album its kind of puzzling, it lacks the emotion that Jon had when he sang it. Live though its there. Yes his voice is different but its equally powerful. I have more of a problem with how they cut out alot of the melodies and leads layered underneath the last half of the song.

Some of the instrumentals they do are useless to. I was really hoping to see them do Mozart and Madness live, hopefully thats one they will do on their spring tour cause I always thought that was Savatage's best instrumental.

I can see why some were upset on the "big suprise" mislead. What with it being Tampa I to would have figured on a Savatage song. (Gutter Ballet with Jon would be awesome). However its definitely true that the TSO audience is much more likely to enjoy them covering some Joe Walsh stuff than doing some old Savatage tunes with Jon or Zak.

Also second the idea that they need to do Back to A Reason Part 2 and or What Child is This. Evans rocks, use him. I didn't miss it but I noticed they finally cut a song from the first half of the show. No more "Promises to Keep" in fact they didn't really have a lead female singer at all this time around. They did a sort of round robin mutilation of Christmas Cannon Rock that I didn't really care for, except for the brunette none of them really were pulling it off.

BlackmoreOfBowling
12-08-2009, 09:31 AM
I don't think I have ever seen more people more missing the point.


@ BlackmoreofBowling: How the fuck are you even considering the notion that TSO isn't a band?

As I stated earlier, the basic aesthetics of this collaboration are Andrew Lloyd Webber-style Opera with Heavy Metal and Classical influences. It was once a band, but it's an annual cultural event now.

Dude, who the fuck are you? Maybe if you'd take Joe Walsh's balls out of your mouth for a few seconds you'd realize that people have other tastes. Did I say Joe Walsh was a shitty person, and has not influenced anything? No, I said I personally hate The Eagles, and it was IN MY OPINION a stupid thing to do at a Trans-Siberian Orchestra show. Fuck you.

All I read here was a wall of bitching and crying. I never once said anything negative about Savatage. All I stated was the influence that Joe Walsh had on a much bigger and broader genre, and likewise how his appearance at a performance which boasts much more appeal towards fans of that genre (in addition to many other genres); old and new was significant to that effect. I realize that this is a Metal message board, and that you don't like The Eagles, and that's perfectly fine, but the highest form of ignorance is to dismiss something that you know nothing about. Aren't special guest appearances serve as a matter of not solely upon surprising the audience with greater name value for the show, but ultimately more music and a more enjoyable experience? TSO performances alone accomplish these principles, and special guest appearances are the added bonus.

Maiden33
12-08-2009, 10:14 PM
Random thought directed at those who claim that doing Savatage material is somehow less appropriate than these random classic rock guest spots:

The simple fact of this matter is that you could play nearly any song off of the last 4 Savatage studio albums at a TSO show, and you could convince the entire audience it was one of their own songs. Seriously if TSO were to perform "One Child", "The Wake of Magellan", "Not What You See", "The Hourglass", "The Morphine Child", "Chance", "This is the Time", or "This Isn't What We Meant", they would all fit absolutely perfectly with the aesthetic of the rest of the band's music.

Maiden33
12-09-2009, 11:44 AM
TSO is sadly not directed at Savatage fans or even metal fans. I think its going to be interesting to see how they handle their non seasonal tour in the spring because I think that will be more of a metal crowd.

I have seen them every year for 8 years and aside from one year down here it was always the east coast group. Its always a good show. I definitely think they need to do more vocal songs in their second half. Its gotten way to instrumental heavy. I don't understand WHY they even did The Mountain. Its completely out of place as a TSO song. Its to heavy for their target audience and Chris is a fine guitarist but he can not pull off that song live, Criss could.

Believe is a different story. Most everyone I talked to considered that the highlight of the show. Hockenberry did a really good job. And he especially kills it live. On the album its kind of puzzling, it lacks the emotion that Jon had when he sang it. Live though its there. Yes his voice is different but its equally powerful. I have more of a problem with how they cut out alot of the melodies and leads layered underneath the last half of the song.

Some of the instrumentals they do are useless to. I was really hoping to see them do Mozart and Madness live, hopefully thats one they will do on their spring tour cause I always thought that was Savatage's best instrumental.

I can see why some were upset on the "big suprise" mislead. What with it being Tampa I to would have figured on a Savatage song. (Gutter Ballet with Jon would be awesome). However its definitely true that the TSO audience is much more likely to enjoy them covering some Joe Walsh stuff than doing some old Savatage tunes with Jon or Zak.

Also second the idea that they need to do Back to A Reason Part 2 and or What Child is This. Evans rocks, use him. I didn't miss it but I noticed they finally cut a song from the first half of the show. No more "Promises to Keep" in fact they didn't really have a lead female singer at all this time around. They did a sort of round robin mutilation of Christmas Cannon Rock that I didn't really care for, except for the brunette none of them really were pulling it off.

Great first post, I hope you stick around.

jhdeity
12-09-2009, 11:55 AM
Great first post, I hope you stick around.

Ditto

Fe Maiden
12-09-2009, 12:30 PM
Dude, who the fuck are you? Maybe if you'd take Joe Walsh's balls out of your mouth for a few seconds you'd realize that people have other tastes. Did I say Joe Walsh was a shitty person, and has not influenced anything? No, I said I personally hate The Eagles, and it was IN MY OPINION a stupid thing to do at a Trans-Siberian Orchestra show. Fuck you.

The point is those were not Eagle's songs.