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View Full Version : Cobalt -- Gin (the opposing viewpoint)


JRA
09-17-2009, 06:49 PM
Mods, if it's really that irritating to have two threads on the same album, go ahead and merge them.

Well...

I really, really, really want to say that you buttholes were DEAD wrong on this, but...I need to take responsibility for diving right in and not reading before eating. If I had read Opeth or Tool in the other paragraph, (the latter I subsquently did) I probably wouldn't have been as motivated to listen to this tonight.

I mean, in his defense, Erik Wonder* is BY FAR a better guitar player and riff writer than Adam Jones on his best day. Some of this stuff is actually pretty catchy, with a brilliant eye for melody and pretty bitchin. As in drive down the highway with sunglasses and the roof down bitchin. I will also say this album gets somewhat better as it goes on, but meh.

So you know how Gamma Ray is derivative of Priest and Maiden and stuff? Well this is pretty much the Gamma Ray of the "Tool" and "Opeth" department. It's not really anything new, and at times it passes the greatness of it's predecessor, but the only way I can see anybody thinking this is avant-garde is if you are stuck in 1995 and you still think Tool and Faith No More are still the avant-garde. One of the things I did not like about Opeth is they play the same tempo over and over again. If you're a drummer, that can get on your nerves very fucking quickly. They do occasionally switch, but when they are, they are playing the "Third Eye" tempo. Only hearing two tempos over and over again is one of my quirky musical pet peeves.

I really want to say "If you really, really hate Tool and Opeth, stay the fuck away from this," but it is worth listening to at least once for the brilliant guitar work. And hey, David Lee Roth never came up with the line "I smell you in my shit." :lol: But me, I can't really picture myself listening to this again.


*due to metal-archives faggotry

Addendum: Also, my back hurts.

Addednum 2: Yes "Pregnant Insect" sticks out like a sore thumb because it's fast and thrashy. It's also a good idea to make something like that toward the beginning of the album, to break up the monotony early.

mankvill
09-17-2009, 06:57 PM
I really, really hate Tool.

:(

ADD
09-17-2009, 08:36 PM
Phil McSorley is BY FAR a better guitar player and riff writer than Adam Jones .

McSorley is vocals, Erik Wunder plays the instruments.

So you know how Gamma Ray is derivative of Priest and Maiden and stuff? Well this is pretty much the Gamma Ray of the "Tool" and "Opeth" department. It's not really anything new, and at times it passes the greatness of it's predecessor, but the only way I can see anybody thinking this is avant-Garde is if you are stuck in 1995 and you still think Tool and Faith No More are still the avant Garde.

...........................wut.

One of the things I did not like about Opeth is they play the same tempo over and over again. If you're a drummer, that can get on your nerves very fucking quickly. Except when they aren't playing the Opeth tempo, they are playing the Tool tempo. Now Tool obviously had a little more rhythmic variation than Opeth did, but only hearing two tempos over and over again is one of my quirky musical pet peeves.

Using contemporary rock bands to illustrate a poorly constructed point about basic rhythmic philosophy is quite dubious. THRASH



Also, my back hurts.

Good :D

JRA
09-17-2009, 08:39 PM
McSorley is vocals, Erik Wunder plays the instruments.


Not what it says here.

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=12739

ADD
09-17-2009, 08:41 PM
Wunder composed all the music for Gin, McSorley did the lyrics and vocals.

JRA
09-17-2009, 08:46 PM
Wunder composed all the music for Gin, McSorley did the lyrics and vocals.

Noted.

Natrlhi
09-17-2009, 08:48 PM
I really, really hate Tool.

:(

Too bad. They are extremely talented musicians. Danny Carey is widely recognized as one of the best drummers alive, for example. But, to each his own, I guess. Taste differs from person to person, but I don't consider myself to be particularly easy to please, and I think they are close to being musical geniuses (collectively). Who the fuck else can construct such intricate songs with time signatures shifting all over the place; deep, meaningful lyrics and all the while make it sound so smooth and unified, yet so heavy-hitting at the same time? If you can tell me who, I'm listening...

Thought not.

They may have some douchey fans, but hey - what band of their stature doesn't? This means nothing to me.

It's their music that I love - as well as their intelligence and talent. I'm sticking with Tool, and I'm sticking with Cobalt. They are two different bands, but they can both channel their anger about the things they find wrong with this world in such an interesting way that they will have a fan in me for good - regardless of what anybody else says.

I'm done.
:soapbox:

:D

JRA
09-17-2009, 08:50 PM
Who the fuck else can construct such intricate songs with time signatures shifting all over the place; deep, meaningful lyrics and all the while make it sound so smooth and unified, yet so heavy-hitting at the same time? If you can tell me who, I'm listening...



Rush. They might not have been hard-hitting 100% of the time, but when they chose to hit hard, they hit hard with the best of them.

Natrlhi
09-17-2009, 09:03 PM
So you know how Gamma Ray is derivative of Priest and Maiden and stuff? Well this is pretty much the Gamma Ray of the "Tool" and "Opeth" department. It's not really anything new, and at times it passes the greatness of it's predecessor, but the only way I can see anybody thinking this is avant-Garde is if you are stuck in 1995 and you still think Tool and Faith No More are still the avant Garde.

One of the things I did not like about Opeth is they play the same tempo over and over again. If you're a drummer, that can get on your nerves very fucking quickly. They do occasionally switch, but when they are playing the "Third Eye" tempo. Only hearing two tempos over and over again is one of my quirky musical pet peeves.
re: first paragraph - although I wouldn't discourage folks from making comparisons to Opeth and Tool (the former of which I really don't care for, the latter of which I love), I don't think Cobalt is "derivative" of either of these necessarily. The Opeth comparisons come because Cobalt is black, and so are they. But that's where the comparison stops, I think. The Tool comparisons are mainly because the drums sound a lot like Danny Carey's work. But again, this is where the comparison stops. Cobalt is brutal, blackened death metal. Opeth is symphonic black metal that gets heavy at times. Tool is progressive alt metal. All three have their differences (and similarities).

re: second paragraph - I hear you on the tempo thing, and as a drummer I would expect you to notice it more than most of us. To be honest, it doesn't bother me at all. But do yourself a favor and try to hear the rest of what's on display here and not get so wrapped up in the tempo. I know you can hear pieces of brilliance, because you referenced them yourself in your opposing viewpoint. I think if you listen more and focus on the points you like, you may grow to love this.

Or maybe not. But I did, and I'll bet you five bucks this ends up in the top ten - if not five - of at least half a dozen well-recognized lists (and I'm talking published here, not us trolls here on the ol' board ;)) for the best albums of 2009. I betcha. :money:

DethMaiden
09-17-2009, 09:06 PM
Opeth are definitely not black anything. They are progressive rock with death metal vocals, or death metal with progressive rock arrangements. And I don't see any relationship between Opeth and Cobalt. Opeth are one of my all-time favorite bands and Cobalt put out what is by far the best record I've heard this year, but greatness is not a sonic measure.

JRA
09-17-2009, 09:06 PM
Or maybe not. But I did, and I'll bet you five bucks this ends up in the top ten - if not five - of at least half a dozen well-recognized lists (and I'm talking published here, not us trolls here on the ol' board ;)) for the best albums of 2009. I betcha. :money:

Ok, fine. Wouldn't surprise me at all. It's got enough people here who like it. Tegan & Sara's album had enough people who liked it. Death Magnetic was on many people's published top 10's so there you go.

Natrlhi
09-17-2009, 09:07 PM
Rush. They might not have been hard-hitting 100% of the time, but when they chose to hit hard, they hit hard with the best of them.
Rush is awesome, but like you said they didn't hit as hard as Tool does on a consistent basis. I also think Tool is more introspective with their lyrics, and I like that. Rush's themes are far more generalized. Just a matter of taste, I guess. But basically, Tool and Rush are two very different bands that are both awesome (to me) for very different reasons.

...and by the way - I was addressing Mankvill's comment. I thought you liked Tool...? :eyes:

Natrlhi
09-17-2009, 09:08 PM
Death Magnetic was on many people's published top 10's so there you go.
Not mine. Ew. :D

(I liked it, but top ten...um, no.)

Natrlhi
09-17-2009, 09:11 PM
Opeth are definitely not black anything.
You're right. More symphonic than black. Some people equate the two, though (the people who compare Cobalt to Opeth, for example) - not that they're right ;).

mankvill
09-17-2009, 09:43 PM
Too bad. They are extremely talented musicians. Danny Carey is widely recognized as one of the best drummers alive, for example. But, to each his own, I guess. Taste differs from person to person, but I don't consider myself to be particularly easy to please, and I think they are close to being musical geniuses (collectively). Who the fuck else can construct such intricate songs with time signatures shifting all over the place; deep, meaningful lyrics and all the while make it sound so smooth and unified, yet so heavy-hitting at the same time? If you can tell me who, I'm listening...

Thought not.

They may have some douchey fans, but hey - what band of their stature doesn't? This means nothing to me.

It's their music that I love - as well as their intelligence and talent. I'm sticking with Tool, and I'm sticking with Cobalt. They are two different bands, but they can both channel their anger about the things they find wrong with this world in such an interesting way that they will have a fan in me for good - regardless of what anybody else says.

I'm done.
:soapbox:

:D

I just can't get over Maynard's terrible vocals and every song seems the same to me and goes on too long. @_@; progressive self-indulgence maybe?

I really can't stand bands who people describe as "chill" and I think Tool is like the metal version of "chill" if that makes any sense. :lol:

Maiden33
09-17-2009, 09:45 PM
Who the fuck else can construct such intricate songs with time signatures shifting all over the place; deep, meaningful lyrics and all the while make it sound so smooth and unified, yet so heavy-hitting at the same time? If you can tell me who, I'm listening...

Dream Theater, circa Images and Words would like to have a word with you.

Natrlhi
09-18-2009, 05:27 AM
I just can't get over Maynard's terrible vocals and every song seems the same to me and goes on too long. @_@; progressive self-indulgence maybe?

I really can't stand bands who people describe as "chill" and I think Tool is like the metal version of "chill" if that makes any sense. :lol:
Obviously this boils down to taste, then, because I think Maynard's vocals are actually pretty good (although I like Adam and Justin's guitar work and Danny's drum awesomeness the most). Obviously we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one. ;) As far as the "chill" description, I have never heard that term applied to Tool, so I couldn't comment on that. I'm not even sure what that would mean in the context of Tool. Trippy? Yes, at times (and I like that). Introspective? You bet. Chill? Not in my mind. How can a band be considered chill when they smack you in the face as hard as Tool does (at least a good deal of the time)? So anyway, I guess we just don't agree on Tool. No problem. ;)


Dream Theater, circa Images and Words would like to have a word with you.
Another prog metal classic, to be sure. They have the intricate song structures, no doubt. Musicianship? Top notch. Lyrics? I wouldn't really know, but I expect they get a check mark here, too. But heavy hitting as Tool? I think we can both agree there is a huge disparity there - so that's where my comment kicks in. I like Tool because they have all of the above, and they pummel you about the head and shoulders (and brain, really ;)) all the while. DT is awesome, but they don't do that. Not like Tool does. That's all I'm saying.

ADD
09-18-2009, 11:12 AM
Natrlhi is like the wise old man of the forums :cool:

Natrlhi
09-18-2009, 11:14 AM
Natrlhi is like the wise old man of the forums :cool:
My wife would agree with one of those two adjectives. ;)

ADD
09-18-2009, 11:18 AM
My wife would agree with one of those two adjectives. ;)
:lol: