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View Full Version : Metallica and their downfall


SerpentineVIVIVI
06-19-2009, 09:52 PM
I know this is a really old and beat up topic, but I just get so enraged after hearing live recordings of 1989/91 to 2000's until today. What the fuck happened to these guys? I know that Enter Sandman is one of the most overrated, overplayed songs in the metal universe, and it is certainly not anywhere the near best Metallica song, but it's such a stark difference! The guitar tone of 91 rapes the shit out of today's overproduced tone, and Kirk was such a tighter lead player. Lars could actually at least be competent. One of the things I find incredible about the change is the energy! Jesus it never really hit me how much Jason had a prescense until watching these videos. Rob goes on stage and does a fucking crabwalk and gorilla faces while Newsted windmills and does fuckin lead vox on Seek & Destroy! But to top it all, nothing, and I mean nothing is so different as Hetfield's gritty voice. He had it nailed that year and prior, it's is just the most depressing thing to see such a great voice go down the fucking drain with shithole like Load and ReLoad. I understand that those records are good for what they are, I am not ignorant to that, but after hearing shit like this....I just can't stomach it. Leaders of the thrash metal scene, once a band proud and strong, falling down....is this the result of money? The result of laziness and success? Cliff's death? (Even though the latter I feel has weaker arguable points than the others) I don't know, all I know is it just makes me dislike Metallica so much more than I already do, and realize that all they have now is their past, for they truly have become a nostalgia act that can't even moderately perform their nostalgic acts. Sorry for the rant, it's just this shit flares up and I can't stand it! Wouldn't mind hearing someone else's two cents on the topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QP-SIW6iKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQbKFOzrAoo

mankvill
06-19-2009, 09:56 PM
They're gettin' old.

edit: and lay off Rob! I bet Jason doesn't windmill anymore. And I bet Rob did back in the day! :lol:

Also: the videos are comparing a music video to an actual live show. Of course the sound is gonna suffer on the latter. :lol:

SerpentineVIVIVI
06-19-2009, 10:00 PM
They're gettin' old.

I know man, but so are Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Sabbath. Hell, so are Megadeth, Slayer and Overkill, etc. Especially the first three, these all retain what they are known for, and still deliver strongly (for the most part). Maiden have never sounded better, and Dio moves around like he's 20 years younger, albeit his voice is a bit raspier than the past, it is still fucking good for being in the business for 30+ years! I don't feel the age factor is a right for them to be performing how they do live.

edit: I'm not hating on Rob, it's just Rob doesn't seem to put in half as much energy into their live performance as did Jason. and with respect to the videos, they are both live videos.

JRA
06-19-2009, 10:03 PM
Newsted windmills? :lol: Since the fuck when?

Honestly I'm gonna have to go with the haircutting/alternative look. That was done solely to piss off metal fans (Lars and James said they were too popular and they wanted to shake things up), and ultimately they put too much time into pissing people off and not enough time into the music. Same story with Motley Crue after Shout At the Devil really.

DethMaiden
06-19-2009, 10:05 PM
The biggest difference is 1980s James had the coolest voice in all of thrash, and now he thinks we want to hear a heavy metal redneck singing "For Whom the Bell Tolls". No. We don't. He peaked on ...AJFA as a vocalist but never attempted to recapture the ferocity, and it's very sad.

SerpentineVIVIVI
06-19-2009, 10:09 PM
The biggest difference is 1980s James had the coolest voice in all of thrash, and now he thinks we want to hear a heavy metal redneck singing "For Whom the Bell Tolls". No. We don't. He peaked on ...AJFA as a vocalist but never attempted to recapture the ferocity, and it's very sad.

It is extremely sad, because as you said, he had one of the coolest voices in thrash. It's a damn shame....but did he try to recapture it on Death Magnetic? My gut tells me yes but he failed pretty poorly.

And apparently, he's been windmilling since latest '91.

JRA
06-19-2009, 10:12 PM
Oh wait, hair windmilling. I thought you meant this.

http://www.htzfm.com/files/htzfm/images/pete%20townsend.jpg

SerpentineVIVIVI
06-19-2009, 10:19 PM
Oh wait, hair windmilling. I thought you meant this.

http://www.htzfm.com/files/htzfm/images/pete%20townsend.jpg

Nope :lol:

powerslave_85
06-19-2009, 10:25 PM
People still care about this? Yawn.

SomewhereInTime72
06-19-2009, 10:30 PM
People still care about this? Yawn.

This. It's not big loss, really.

Div
06-19-2009, 10:32 PM
wat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGWkqoc9xxI

SerpentineVIVIVI
06-19-2009, 10:37 PM
wat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGWkqoc9xxI

so kirk brought in some of gary's riffs? no surprise.

ravenheart
06-20-2009, 05:23 AM
Meh, I don't care about this either. I saw them last year, this year, and I'm travelling to another country this year to see them again. They are still an awesome live band.

So I guess what I'm saying is... fuck you all :D

JRA
06-20-2009, 08:56 AM
so kirk brought in some of gary's riffs? no surprise.


Now this I refuse to believe. God forbid Kirk wrote those riffs.

You wanna know who really stole that Exodus riff? Kai Hansen (Trapped Under Ice= Ride the Sky)

rjturtle9
06-20-2009, 12:25 PM
this is always brought up in every metallica show thread. nows there a whole thread on this. this argument really is getting old, just because we have heard everyone's side already. i love metallica and i still think they are awesome live.

Indestructible
06-20-2009, 07:37 PM
nothing wrong with them

their downfall was load ans st anger and they came back with death magnetic which is better than the black album

Div
06-20-2009, 08:31 PM
Well even if kirk wrote the riffs, they were already used in another bands music. To simply pack up and leave a band and then take your riffs with you is kinda lame. Point is, those riffs were already in Exodus songs, then they were used in Metallica songs. So no matter how you look at it, Metallica ripped off Exodus.

JRA
06-20-2009, 09:28 PM
Well even if kirk wrote the riffs, they were already used in another bands music. To simply pack up and leave a band and then take your riffs with you is kinda lame. Point is, those riffs were already in Exodus songs, then they were used in Metallica songs. So no matter how you look at it, Metallica ripped off Exodus.

So? Players/songwriters do that with former/new bands all the time. The only reason you're giving Metallica shit about it is because they've committed enough pointless metal clique violations and thus it's now "cool" to bash them for anything.

Case in Point: Adrian Smith doing the exact same thing with "22," a song from his old band Urchin, and then resurrecting it as "22 Acacia Avenue."

In all probability, Adrian's probably stolen more riffs than Metallica ever has, but he'll never get shit for it because he never dressed alterantive while being in the public spotlight, did gay sex photo-sessions with Bruce or Dave, or sued a website where lazy college kids can get the new Men Without Hats single.

Div
06-21-2009, 12:16 AM
I still think it's bullshit. By that logic any artist could simply rehash their old stuff. Should a director be able to re-use scenes from his older movies in a new film? "oh hey, instead of writing new stuff lets just use these old riffs. its not like most people are gonna know we didnt write them anyway" besides, the original song sounds so much more thrashy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR-Cjt4s9Ec

for the record tho, its not just metallica bashing, i like their old stuff alot. and yeah, they sold out and that sucks and all, but my biggest problem with metallica isnt the band so much as the fans. its just extremely annoying when you meet people who act like metallica is the be-all-end-all of heavy music... and very rarely know of any other metal band besides metallica. "yeah i love metallica, and uh... linkin park... and uhh led zeppelin! yeah heavy metal for life bro!"

TonyD
06-21-2009, 01:37 AM
Fuck you guise, Metallica is the first and best metal band ever.

SerpentineVIVIVI
06-21-2009, 07:24 AM
Fuck you guise, Metallica is the first and best metal band ever.

I do hope you are joking :eyes:

JRA
06-21-2009, 10:20 AM
I still think it's bullshit. By that logic any artist could simply rehash their old stuff. Should a director be able to re-use scenes from his older movies in a new film? "oh hey, instead of writing new stuff lets just use these old riffs. its not like most people are gonna know we didnt write them anyway" besides, the original song sounds so much more thrashy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR-Cjt4s9Ec

for the record tho, its not just metallica bashing, i like their old stuff alot. and yeah, they sold out and that sucks and all, but my biggest problem with metallica isnt the band so much as the fans. its just extremely annoying when you meet people who act like metallica is the be-all-end-all of heavy music... and very rarely know of any other metal band besides metallica. "yeah i love metallica, and uh... linkin park... and uhh led zeppelin! yeah heavy metal for life bro!"



Disagree with Die by his hand being thrashier than Creeping Death, but agree about the fucktarded fans. Those are usually the retards that fuel the mallcore scene.

mankvill
06-21-2009, 01:01 PM
Fuck you guise, Metallica is the first and best metal band ever.

:party:

Wizzbang11
06-21-2009, 01:45 PM
nothing wrong with them

their downfall was load ans st anger and they came back with death magnetic which is better than the black album

None of this is right.
At all.

Div
06-21-2009, 02:29 PM
death magnetic was just metallica realizing that their fans liked the old stuff better, so they tried to revisit that style.

black album is what made them suck because it was commercialized to try and appeal to the wider audience. and so nowadays we have classic rock stations playing Unforgiven and college football games playing Enter Sandman when a touchdown is scored.

Indestructible
06-21-2009, 05:12 PM
Fuck you guise, Metallica is the first and best metal band ever.
sabbath was the first metal band

and
there was metal before metallica


just because you think their the best metal band ever doesnt mean they were the first metal band ever

makethemsuffer12
06-21-2009, 05:59 PM
^ Umm, I think he's being sarcastic.

But on the topic of Metallica's "downfall"; Yes, they obviously and unfortunately aren't what they used to be, but they still deliver excellent live shows and have the ability of producing good music.

SomewhereInTime72
06-21-2009, 08:35 PM
Well even if kirk wrote the riffs, they were already used in another bands music. To simply pack up and leave a band and then take your riffs with you is kinda lame. Point is, those riffs were already in Exodus songs, then they were used in Metallica songs. So no matter how you look at it, Metallica ripped off Exodus.

I think it's fine to use a riff you wrote in a different song, especially if you don't even play the old version of the song anymore (it's not like Kirk gets to play Exodus songs as Metallica's guitarist). Using an old idea is not really "rehashing".

Sinfulsot
06-22-2009, 06:30 AM
this is what i like about this site; that such a debate about the music can be had and that even if considered tired and old, it can be rehashed, with something specific, in this case, the use of riffs that a band member had written in one band and is now using/rehashing/whatever in his/her new band...

Sinfulsot
06-24-2009, 06:16 PM
I killed another thread!!

JRA
06-24-2009, 07:20 PM
No it wasn't you, it was the fact that this topic ran out of steam, although now that I think about it...

I watched a video of the Download show where they had Dave Fucking Lombardo on drums, and "Battery" sounded exactly as if Lars was on drums. So much for people thinking Lars is a terrible fast drummer.

rjturtle9
06-24-2009, 07:55 PM
I watched a video of the Download show where they had Dave Fucking Lombardo on drums, and "Battery" sounded exactly as if Lars was on drums. So much for people thinking Lars is a terrible fast drummer.

hell no!!!!!! Lombardo is way sicker than lars. he played it way better than lars ever did.

Sinfulsot
06-25-2009, 06:53 PM
No it wasn't you, it was the fact that this topic ran out of steam, although now that I think about it...

I watched a video of the Download show where they had Dave Fucking Lombardo on drums, and "Battery" sounded exactly as if Lars was on drums. So much for people thinking Lars is a terrible fast drummer.

fair enough. but when a debate does get going, and is otherwise troll-free, it not only shows how every1 here feels about metal, but i believe that the debates about the music further legitamizes the genre.

JRA
06-25-2009, 06:59 PM
fair enough. but when a debate does get going, and is otherwise troll-free, it not only shows how every1 here feels about metal, but i believe that the debates about the music further legitamizes the genre.

:allan: