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cradle_of_maiden
05-29-2009, 06:41 AM
OZZY OSBOURNE Sues TONY IOMMI Over Ownership Of BLACK SABBATH Name - May 29, 2009

According to the New York Post, Ozzy Osbourne has filed a lawsuit against his BLACK SABBATH bandmate Tony Iommi, claiming that Iommi illegally took sole ownership of the band's name in a filing with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

Osbourne is suing Iommi for a 50 percent interest in the "Black Sabbath" trademark, along with a portion of Iommi's profits from use of the name.

The Manhattan federal court suit also charges that Osbourne's "signature lead vocals" are largely responsible for the band's "extraordinary success," noting that its popularity plummeted during his absence from 1980 through 1996.

Iommi and Geezer Butler have both said some less than kind things about working with singer Ozzy Osbourne in a new interview with Decibel magazine. The pair recently completed a new studio album as HEAVEN & HELL, the post-Ozzy version of SABBATH featuring vocalist Ronnie James Dio, and Butler said that working with Dio was much easier than Osbourne. He explained, "Ronnie's a songwriter in his own right — he's got tons of ideas. Whereas Ozzy . . . in the old days, he'd come up with a vocal line and I'd write the lyrics. Ronnie is 100 percent involved in both the musical side and the vocal side, and he writes his own lyrics as well."

Butler added that Osbourne didn't take him seriously as a songwriter, saying, "If we were with Ozzy and I came in with the killer riff of all time, Ozzy wouldn't even think of doing it because I'm not the guitarist and that's the way he thinks . . . That's why it was so bloody hard to write anything."

Butler said about HEAVEN & HELL's debut CD, "The Devil You Know", "If we'd written this album with Ozzy, we'd still be working on the first track."

Iommi added that there was a sharp difference between the singers live as well, saying, "It was great being with Ozzy on the road . . . but with Ronnie it's a lot different, because we go out and we know exactly what we're gonna be doing. With Ozzy, we didn't really know. It was touch and go sometimes on some of those early shows, whether he was gonna turn up, if he'd be able to sing, if his voice was gone, or what. We'd have to cancel shows, which Geezer and myself really hated. But with Ronnie, we've never canceled a show."

HEAVEN & HELL will tour Europe later this spring and summer, with North American dates scheduled for August.

Ozzy Osbourne is currently working on his next solo album.

Source: Blabbermouth.net

ravenheart
05-29-2009, 07:14 AM
Most unsurprising thing ever.

HandOfDoom
05-29-2009, 07:28 AM
All this shit is retarded IMO, but I still have to say Ozzy sabbath>Dio sabbath X10000000000000

JRA
05-29-2009, 07:34 AM
Oh Sharon...you need to die.

Spiral_Slave
05-29-2009, 07:59 AM
The Manhattan federal court suit also charges that Osbourne's "signature lead vocals" are largely responsible for the band's "extraordinary success," noting that its popularity plummeted during his absence from 1980 through 1996.

:hecho:

JuuKun
05-29-2009, 08:08 AM
Just...wow.

Dio Sabbath is better, anyways, though, so I'm so not complaining.

Maiden33
05-29-2009, 08:30 AM
The Manhattan federal court suit also charges that Osbourne's "signature lead vocals" are largely responsible for the band's "extraordinary success," noting that its popularity plummeted during his absence from 1980 through 1996.

Fucking ridiculous.

This whole thing is stupid. Black Sabbath is, was, has always been, and will always be Tony Iommi, it's as simple as that.
I disagreed with their decision to call Heaven and Hell that and not Black Sabbath due to the fact that Sabbath had existed without Ozzy for a decade and a half, and as long as Tony (and in this case Geezer) were behind the idea, it should carry the Black Sabbath name, regardless of induced whining or confusion from those people who think the only Sabbath is Ozzy-Sabbath.
I've never liked Ozzy much and never thought he had much talent, and this whole decision is just stupid. I don't really know what else to say.

SomewhereInTime72
05-29-2009, 10:50 AM
Bullshit.

ravenheart
05-29-2009, 11:10 AM
I disagreed with their decision to call Heaven and Hell that and not Black Sabbath

Same.

mankvill
05-29-2009, 11:31 AM
All this shit is retarded IMO, but I still have to say Ozzy sabbath>Dio sabbath X10000000000000

No way

ChildrenofSodom
05-29-2009, 11:34 AM
RONNIE JAMES DIO IS FUCKING METAL!

Ozzy is a pop star, not a serious metal god.

powerslave_85
05-29-2009, 11:54 AM
The Manhattan federal court suit also charges that Osbourne's "signature lead vocals" are largely responsible for the band's "extraordinary success," noting that its popularity plummeted during his absence from 1980 through 1996.
Can't disagree there.

ravenheart
05-29-2009, 12:15 PM
Can't disagree there.

I disagree. Ozzy was fortunate to be the first vocalist in Sabbath, that's all. If Ronnie had been first all the zombies would be saying Dio-Sabbath is the only Sabbath.

Maiden33
05-29-2009, 12:53 PM
I disagree. Ozzy was fortunate to be the first vocalist in Sabbath, that's all. If Ronnie had been first all the zombies would be saying Dio-Sabbath is the only Sabbath.

Yup, simple as that.

And I wouldn't say Heaven and Hell and the Mob Rules were unsuccessful albums by any stretch. Otherwise the current band would never be able to draw the crowds they are.

JRA
05-29-2009, 12:59 PM
Can't disagree there.


You can't possibly be serious with that one. It wasn't just Ozzy's vocals, it was also Tony's insanely heavy guitar playing. When Dio joined, the music just got significantly less heavy (until about 1992 :D).

Div
05-29-2009, 01:01 PM
i love dio, but ozzy sabbath will always be better. saying the dio years were better is like saying blaze-maiden is better than bruce maiden.

JRA
05-29-2009, 01:02 PM
i love dio, but ozzy sabbath will always be better.


For some reason, I'm surprised to hear you say that.

Div
05-29-2009, 01:24 PM
For some reason, I'm surprised to hear you say that.


why's that :confused:

TonyD
05-29-2009, 01:26 PM
FUUUUUCK

Oh well. New Baroness, new HOF.

JRA
05-29-2009, 01:28 PM
why's that :confused:

I don't know, I guess I had you pinned as an anti-Ozzy Dio-tard.

Maiden33
05-29-2009, 01:31 PM
saying the dio years were better is like saying blaze-maiden is better than bruce maiden.

That's totally untrue. 97-98% of Maiden fans agree that Bruce is the best Maiden singer, no competition. And those that disagree basically always prefer DiAnno. Whereas a good 20% or more of generalized Black Sabbath fans would probably prefer Dio-era. Further proof: If Maiden did a Blaze-era reunion under the name "The X Factor", they'd be playing to like 1,000 people a night in America. Heaven and Hell has been just a tad more successful when compared to the "primary" incarnation of the band.

ADD
05-29-2009, 01:49 PM
Couldn't expect anything less :rolleyes: Sharon Osbourne is just a cunt. Ozzy's been completely fried for like 30 years, dude has never done shit on his own, either he's had awesome musicians to surround him or Sharon just puts him in a TV commercial to capitalize off that ridiculous "Prince of Darkness" thing. Pretty sad, but I'm sure he doesn't care, shit I wouldn't if I was him.

I like to think of Ozzy as a lovable, senile zombie who's being controlled by an evil witch doctor.

HandOfDoom
05-29-2009, 01:56 PM
i love dio, but ozzy sabbath will always be better. saying the dio years were better is like saying blaze-maiden is better than bruce maiden.

Thank you, I realize Dio is a MUCH better vocalist than Ozzy, but for me Dio era Sabbath cannot even compare to classic Ozzy Sabbath.

powerslave_85
05-29-2009, 01:59 PM
That's totally untrue. 97-98% of Maiden fans agree that Bruce is the best Maiden singer, no competition. And those that disagree basically always prefer DiAnno. Whereas a good 20% or more of generalized Black Sabbath fans would probably prefer Dio-era. I was told there would be no math.

Anyways, Black Sabbath has always equaled Ozzy to me. Yes, Iommi's guitar playing is what makes their sound, but the Ozzy albums are the ones that were the most influential and vital to shaping heavy metal over the years.

Div
05-29-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't know, I guess I had you pinned as an anti-Ozzy Dio-tard.

i like dio's music alot and respect him, but his version of sabbath just doesnt feel right. theres the guitar tuning aspect that you pointed out, and also dio's songwriting focuses more on rhyming words and making it catchy, which makes things sound pretty cheesy sometimes.

That's totally untrue. 97-98% of Maiden fans agree that Bruce is the best Maiden singer, no competition. And those that disagree basically always prefer DiAnno. Whereas a good 20% or more of generalized Black Sabbath fans would probably prefer Dio-era. Further proof: If Maiden did a Blaze-era reunion under the name "The X Factor", they'd be playing to like 1,000 people a night in America. Heaven and Hell has been just a tad more successful when compared to the "primary" incarnation of the band.

that's not proof, it's speculation. and heaven and hell's success is due to the fact that there was no active ozzy-sabbath tour going on.

if maiden broke up for half a decade and then came back with a blaze reunion they would be playing to alot more than 1,000 people. plus, dio is a much more popular singer than blaze is, id say alot of the people who attended heaven and hell shows were there to see dio.

JRA
05-29-2009, 02:14 PM
id say alot of the people who attended heaven and hell shows were there to see dio.

That's a great point actually.

rjturtle9
05-29-2009, 04:54 PM
ozzy black sabbath>>>>>>>>dio black sabbath. even though dio was by far the better singer, the ozzy era was the most influential and well known black sabbath.

but as far as the lawsuit is concerned, heaven and hell should still be known as black sabbath. ozzy lost the right to hold any legal shares of sabbath when he got kicked out. as long as there is still one original member in any band, that band will still have the right to keep it's name. and besides, tony is the guy that gave birth to metal. if anything, tony should have 100% of the rights to the black sabbath name.

Sinfulsot
05-29-2009, 05:43 PM
I disagreed with their decision to call Heaven and Hell that and not Black Sabbath
Same.

regardless, calling this project Heaven and Hell is one less thing Sharon can get her cunty claws in.

Also, by using Heaven & Hell, it automatically implies what you will hear live, that being tracks from Heaven & Hell, The Mob Rules, Dehumanizer, and now this latest release.

mastodon421
05-29-2009, 05:49 PM
i perfer ozzy sabbath as well but dio is great.

SirLardsAlot
05-29-2009, 05:51 PM
BLAZE IS THE MESSIAH!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

TonyD
05-29-2009, 06:13 PM
A little update (http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=121016)
Still not much hope. At least I caught them on the last 2 tours.

JRA
05-29-2009, 06:47 PM
A little update (http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=121016)
Still not much hope. At least I caught them on the last 2 tours.

That just made this go from fucked to batshit insane.

ChildrenofSodom
05-29-2009, 07:25 PM
You could say that old Ozzy-Sabbath is classic and awesome, but pound-for-pound, who has kept it going the longest and strongest?

DIO's solo albums are solid and enjoyable, and his work with Black Sabbath is beautiful. I think people hold Ozzy to a god-like status because a) he was the singer for early Sabbath, b) he was the target of the 1980s PMRC witch hunts, and c) HE BIT THE HED OFF A BAT ZOMG!1!

His early solo stuff is alright, but his later stuff is shit. Zakk Wylde is a cunt, so by association, Ozzy looks bad. Sharon sucks. Ozzfest always sucks. Ozzy merchandise is oversold, and he is basically a caricature of 'heavy metal' to the rest of American society.

ADD
05-29-2009, 08:07 PM
A little update (http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=121016)
Still not much hope. At least I caught them on the last 2 tours.

Hahahaha holy shit. It's funny imagining how it would sound if Ozzy read that press release out loud. I wonder if he even knows this is happening.

JRA
05-29-2009, 08:44 PM
Zakk Wylde is a cunt, so by association, Ozzy looks bad. .

Idiocy. No Rest For The Wicked and No More Tears were good albums. And Zakk wasn't a Captain caveman then either.

ChildrenofSodom
05-29-2009, 09:16 PM
Idiocy. No Rest For The Wicked and No More Tears were good albums. And Zakk wasn't a Captain caveman then either.

He is now. And thats what hanging around the Osbournes does to you.


Randy Rhoads hated them so much, he.....

TonyD
05-29-2009, 10:08 PM
He is now. And thats what hanging around the Osbournes does to you.


Randy Rhoads hated them so much, he.....

Not funny.
If you knew your shit, you would have known that he fucked Sharon before she was Sharon Osborne. But apparently everything just sucks.

ADD
05-30-2009, 02:22 AM
Not funny.
If you knew your shit, you would have known that he fucked Sharon before she was Sharon Osborne. But apparently everything just sucks.

Cuz he was wasted and shit was fucked man, give a little leeway to the dude who sang on those records. I'm not saying he's not to blame, cuz 20 year old Ozzy wouldn't be down for this, but Sharon is a straight up she-devil. I don't have any trouble thinking some burnout happened upon a bitch who was down and ended up instead gaining the upper hand an now runs the dude's life. But Ozzy is still ok, just has no mind left.

TonyD
05-30-2009, 02:58 AM
I'm talking about Randy.
There's no doubt that Sharon is the main cause of the downward spiral in Ozzy's legacy. Ozzfest was a product of her being pissed at Lolapoopfest, which actually ended up working. From the MTV show to "freefest", the one off show in Texas and the new joke of a TV show and all of the ads promoting his image as a retarded has been rockstar make me sick.

He's probably one of the duller tools in the shed now, I still believe he's an honest, hard working guy with the best intentions. Which might be what you're saying ^

The reason why I'm really down about this is that I'd much rather see Black Sabbath with Ozzy fumbling some lyrics on the telepromter than Dio giving the horns and humming a riff for half of a 15 minute rendition of "Heaven and Hell". In fact, I would rather see that show in the nosebleed section than just about anything else from front row.

ChildrenofSodom
05-30-2009, 05:36 AM
The reason why I'm really down about this is that I'd much rather see Black Sabbath with Ozzy fumbling some lyrics on the telepromter than Dio giving the horns and humming a riff for half of a 15 minute rendition of "Heaven and Hell". In fact, I would rather see that show in the nosebleed section than just about anything else from front row.

Why?

makethemsuffer12
05-30-2009, 06:12 AM
All I can say is fuck Sharon. Seriously, do they NEED more money?



Oh, and in my personal opinion, Dio Sabbath>Ozzy Sabbath. I still love both though.

ravenheart
05-30-2009, 09:40 AM
Idiocy. No Rest For The Wicked and No More Tears were good albums. And Zakk wasn't a Captain caveman then either.

I've liked every one of Ozzy's albums with Zakk on. No Rest is easily my favourite Ozzy disc, with any guitarist.

I do wish Zakk hadn't started trying to be Dimebag, though. He was much better, and much more likeable, during the Pride & Glory, Book of Shadows and first two BLS albums period. Basically, he was great from '88 to '01, then it all started going a bit wrong, much as I still like the last four or five BLS records, and the one time I got to see BLS on the Mafia tour they were awesome.

On the subject at hand though, Ozzy has made it very, very clear over the last few years that he has no interest in writing and recording a new Sabbath album, so the only reason he's doing this is to make money from CD/merch sales and maybe pull out another shambles of a nostalgia tour. We can do without that.

JRA
05-30-2009, 10:16 AM
I've liked every one of Ozzy's albums with Zakk on. No Rest is easily my favourite Ozzy disc, with any guitarist.

I do wish Zakk hadn't started trying to be Dimebag, though. He was much better, and much more likeable, during the Pride & Glory, Book of Shadows and first two BLS albums period. Basically, he was great from '88 to '01, then it all started going a bit wrong, much as I still like the last four or five BLS records, and the one time I got to see BLS on the Mafia tour they were awesome.

On the subject at hand though, Ozzy has made it very, very clear over the last few years that he has no interest in writing and recording a new Sabbath album, so the only reason he's doing this is to make money from CD/merch sales and maybe pull out another shambles of a nostalgia tour. We can do without that.

What's really funny is they both started out as nancy boy glam rockers and slowly became these big macho tough guy beer drinkers around the same time.

300%_Density
05-30-2009, 01:16 PM
Of course the one time I don't check blabbermouth before work and I miss something like this. Honestly I think I'm more saddened by this than I am angry. I love both Sabbath's. I'm more partial to Ozzy b/c what they were doing was never really heard of before outside of maybe Deep Purple. I think they did more good songs w/ Ozzy than Dio but they also but out alot more than they did w/ Dio. I think Ozzy means well but really doesn't have the capacity to be able to get past that. I just count myself fortunate to have seen them @ Ozzfest '04 & I still hope that I can see H&H in the near future. I don't know why Sharon keeps doing this stuff to further tarnish their name. From a business sense there is some stuff that I liked & then she does other things like this....

ADD
05-30-2009, 01:29 PM
I

The reason why I'm really down about this is that I'd much rather see Black Sabbath with Ozzy fumbling some lyrics on the telepromter than Dio giving the horns and humming a riff for half of a 15 minute rendition of "Heaven and Hell". In fact, I would rather see that show in the nosebleed section than just about anything else from front row.

Mm. At this point I agree, I've seen Dio enough times, but never got to see the original Sabbath lineup live, which obviously sucks. I can't think they won't do like one last farewell show or something at some point with that lineup though, age-allowing of course.

Spiral_Slave
05-30-2009, 01:56 PM
I was able to catch Sabbath with Ozzy at Ozzfest '04, and you aren't missing much. And I'm a big fan of both Ozzy and Dio era Sabbath. There just wasn't any magic.

300%_Density
05-30-2009, 01:57 PM
It would be nice if they did a farewell show/tour but after this whole thing I figure that would just put a huge dagger between Ozzy and the rest of the band and I would die of shock if that happened. All though I would love to see that happen too.

JRA
05-30-2009, 03:00 PM
It would be nice if they did a farewell show/tour but after this whole thing I figure that would just put a huge dagger between Ozzy and the rest of the band and I would die of shock if that happened. All though I would love to see that happen too.

Farewell shows are complete bullshit used to hype and drive up ticket sales.

And like Spiral Slave, I too saw Sabbath in 04. It was OK at best.

Maiden33
05-30-2009, 03:13 PM
Farewell shows are complete bullshit used to hype and drive up ticket sales.

Untrue. Farewell events/shows can be a great way reward fans one last time before a band ends. Running Wild are doing about the coolest thing imaginable for their farewell event this summer. Fan-voted set list, headlining Wacken (biggest metal event in their own country, hell, continent), and shooting a DVD. That is NOT a gimmick, that is the perfect way to bring closure to a career.

JRA
05-30-2009, 03:16 PM
Untrue. Farewell events/shows can be a great way reward fans one last time before a band ends. Running Wild are doing about the coolest thing imaginable for their farewell event this summer. Fan-voted set list, headlining Wacken (biggest metal event in their own country, hell, continent), and shooting a DVD. That is NOT a gimmick, that is the perfect way to bring closure to a career.

Until they decide to "make a comeback," which usually always happens after a farewell show.

Maiden33
05-30-2009, 03:19 PM
Until they decide to "make a comeback," which usually always happens after a farewell show.

It's possible that bands (or members of, rather) can have a change of heart. Some people think they want something and then it turns out that when they get it, it's not the case. I don't think that just because in 10 years you might change your mind, you should rob your fans of a farewell experience. I'd be willing to bet you that next to none of the bands that have ever done farewell things did it as a cash-grab thinking they'd just get back together eventually.

ChildrenofSodom
05-30-2009, 04:57 PM
Untrue. Farewell events/shows can be a great way reward fans one last time before a band ends. Running Wild are doing about the coolest thing imaginable for their farewell event this summer. Fan-voted set list, headlining Wacken (biggest metal event in their own country, hell, continent), and shooting a DVD. That is NOT a gimmick, that is the perfect way to bring closure to a career.

Well, they obviously hate each other....why would they get together to say farewell? And when has Ozzy (read as Sharon) ever wanted to reward the fans ever?

Maiden33
05-30-2009, 05:57 PM
Well, they obviously hate each other....why would they get together to say farewell? And when has Ozzy (read as Sharon) ever wanted to reward the fans ever?

I wasn't really talking about this specific case, because I really don't care. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that farewell shows, tours, or events are cash-grabs with no real other purpose. See above.

300%_Density
05-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Seeing Ministry last year really didn't seem like a cash grab. Granted the setlist could have been picked a little bit better but still it really didn't seem like they were trying to stick it to anyone.

Assuming this past tour w/ NIN was a farewell tour it really didn't seem like that either. Letting fans in w/ video cameras to record the show really doesn't seem like they are sticking it to fans either.

TonyD
05-31-2009, 12:53 AM
Why?

Because they have it. Whoever said they don't have "the magic(a)" just wasn't a Sabbath fan like I am. And I don't mean to say it in a way that I'm more metal than anybody else, but there is very little in this world that I love more than the first 6 Sabbath albums. No matter how anyone tries no one will ever be able to replicate Sabbath live.

ravenheart
05-31-2009, 12:55 PM
Running Wild are doing about the coolest thing imaginable for their farewell event this summer. Fan-voted set list, headlining Wacken (biggest metal event in their own country, hell, continent), and shooting a DVD.

Almost; they aren't headlining. They're playing second to, ironically in the context of this thread, Heaven & Hell.

http://www.jukeboxmetal.com/2008/wacken-2009/

TonyD
05-31-2009, 12:58 PM
Haha

JRA
05-31-2009, 02:20 PM
Almost; they aren't headlining. They're playing second to, ironically in the context of this thread, Heaven & Hell.

http://www.jukeboxmetal.com/2008/wacken-2009/

Anthrax and Thin Lizzy opening for Lacuna Coil? EPIC FAIL!! :hecho:

ravenheart
05-31-2009, 05:27 PM
Anthrax and Thin Lizzy opening for Lacuna Coil? EPIC FAIL!! :hecho:

I suggest you don't look at the line-up for the UK edition of Sonisphere...

es156
05-31-2009, 05:40 PM
I suggest you don't look at the line-up for the UK edition of Sonisphere...

Linkin Park headlining over Heaven & Hell??? :mad: :mad:


:axe:

ravenheart
05-31-2009, 05:46 PM
Avenged Sevenfold headlining the second stage above Alice In Chains annoys me as much. Not to mention The fucking Used above Anthrax.

es156
05-31-2009, 05:55 PM
Avenged Sevenfold headlining the second stage above Alice In Chains annoys me as much. Not to mention The fucking Used above Anthrax.

True on both of those, but with replacement singers they won't get as much credit as they should. Personally, I can't wait to hear the new Alice In Chains CD.

rjturtle9
05-31-2009, 08:09 PM
Linkin Park headlining over Heaven & Hell??? :mad: :mad:


:axe:

i'm gonna go cry now

TonyD
05-31-2009, 10:18 PM
True on both of those, but with replacement singers they won't get as much credit as they should. Personally, I can't wait to hear the new Alice In Chains CD.

:horns:

ravenheart
06-01-2009, 11:30 AM
Personally, I can't wait to hear the new Alice In Chains CD.

Me either. Will rocks with his band Comes With The Fall, and did a brilliant job on the 2006/2007 AIC tour. I saw them in London that year, and have two outstanding DVDs from shows on that tour.

EvilCheeseWedge
06-05-2009, 08:59 AM
Okay, look, this actually has some merit...

First of all, Ozzy is saying, "Hey, Tony, if you sell T-Shirts with your picture, mine, Geezer's, and Bill's, we should ALL be getting an equal cut of that money." Now, obviously, Ozzy is suing for 50% ownership of the Black Sabbath name. But he can't sue for Geezer and Bill's half - they'd have to. And what would suing for 25% do? Leave Tony with 75%? No, suing for 50% is the first step into splitting the name Black Sabbath in to four equal pieces. And even if he got 50%, and the rest of the band never tries to get their shares, it's not like Ozzy and Sharon could do whatever they want, because Tony would still own the other half.

If I were Tony, I would just stop selling any Black Sabbath merchandise with Ozzy's likeness on it, and fight to maintain the name. (Of course, there's not gonna be much merch left after that, like it or not, Ozzy is the most recognizable member of the band to any Joe on the street.) On the other hand, it's unlikely that Black Sabbath will ever play again, or if they do, it'll be the Ozzy led version of the band, so, maybe there's no real point in not splitting the ownership of the name back to the original four members, who are undoubtedly the ones that put the name on the map to begin with.

That said, I wish this wasn't going to court. The important thing should be the music, not the merch cuts. But in all actuality, Tony's probably guilty of being just as greedy as Ozzy and Sharon when it comes to all this.

b_halperin
06-05-2009, 10:36 AM
Linkin Park headlining over Heaven & Hell??? :mad: :mad:


:axe:

that's the most messed up thing ever. :mad:

Derelict
06-05-2009, 10:45 AM
Seeing Ministry last year really didn't seem like a cash grab. Granted the setlist could have been picked a little bit better but still it really didn't seem like they were trying to stick it to anyone.

Assuming this past tour w/ NIN was a farewell tour it really didn't seem like that either. Letting fans in w/ video cameras to record the show really doesn't seem like they are sticking it to fans either.

that ministry tour was the definition of a cash grab....read the press release for that tour, then compare it to your concert experience.

Div
06-05-2009, 12:54 PM
Okay, look, this actually has some merit...

First of all, Ozzy is saying, "Hey, Tony, if you sell T-Shirts with your picture, mine, Geezer's, and Bill's, we should ALL be getting an equal cut of that money." Now, obviously, Ozzy is suing for 50% ownership of the Black Sabbath name. But he can't sue for Geezer and Bill's half - they'd have to. And what would suing for 25% do? Leave Tony with 75%? No, suing for 50% is the first step into splitting the name Black Sabbath in to four equal pieces. And even if he got 50%, and the rest of the band never tries to get their shares, it's not like Ozzy and Sharon could do whatever they want, because Tony would still own the other half.

If I were Tony, I would just stop selling any Black Sabbath merchandise with Ozzy's likeness on it, and fight to maintain the name. (Of course, there's not gonna be much merch left after that, like it or not, Ozzy is the most recognizable member of the band to any Joe on the street.) On the other hand, it's unlikely that Black Sabbath will ever play again, or if they do, it'll be the Ozzy led version of the band, so, maybe there's no real point in not splitting the ownership of the name back to the original four members, who are undoubtedly the ones that put the name on the map to begin with.

That said, I wish this wasn't going to court. The important thing should be the music, not the merch cuts. But in all actuality, Tony's probably guilty of being just as greedy as Ozzy and Sharon when it comes to all this.


But Ozzy left the band. You think someone should be able to demand rights to a band that they walked out on and are no longer affiliated with? All Ozzy can do now is say "yea, Black Sabbath, I used to sing for that band back in the day"

EvilCheeseWedge
06-05-2009, 01:26 PM
But Ozzy left the band. You think someone should be able to demand rights to a band that they walked out on and are no longer affiliated with? All Ozzy can do now is say "yea, Black Sabbath, I used to sing for that band back in the day"

But he also came back... 13 years ago. And he's been in ever since. And it really is no lie that Black Sabbath has been way more commercially successful from 1970-1978, and 1996-today, then in any period in between.

Now, that's true, Ozzy did leave, but like I said, he's back, and if you put his face on a shirt, then whether or not he is in Black Sabbath, you probably legally owe him some money, and I think that's really what the problem here is: Tony is selling stuff featuring the four original members, but he's keeping all the money.

rjturtle9
06-05-2009, 02:03 PM
But he also came back... 13 years ago. And he's been in ever since. And it really is no lie that Black Sabbath has been way more commercially successful from 1970-1978, and 1996-today, then in any period in between.

Now, that's true, Ozzy did leave, but like I said, he's back, and if you put his face on a shirt, then whether or not he is in Black Sabbath, you probably legally owe him some money, and I think that's really what the problem here is: Tony is selling stuff featuring the four original members, but he's keeping all the money.

he came back, but then they started doing the dio stuff. so ozzy wasn't in the last black sabbath line-up

EvilCheeseWedge
06-05-2009, 11:31 PM
he came back, but then they started doing the dio stuff. so ozzy wasn't in the last black sabbath line-up

He's still in Black Sabbath though, he hasn't quit. And the band you're talking about is Heaven & Hell ;)

Div
06-06-2009, 12:44 AM
Ok, maybe he's "technically" in the band according to some legal contract, but for all intents and purposes Ozzy-Sabbath is dead and hasn't done shit in years. When was the last time they put an album out?

TonyD
06-06-2009, 12:47 AM
They don't need to put an album out. All this is about is live shows.

I'm with cheese all the way on this, the fucked up thing is that they couldn't just resolve it by themselves, especially after all of the things they've said about how they're "better friends than ever" and whatnot.

rjturtle9
06-06-2009, 09:08 AM
He's still in Black Sabbath though, he hasn't quit. And the band you're talking about is Heaven & Hell ;)

the first tour they did when they came back with that lineup it was labeled as black sabbath. when they toured with megadeth and machine head

EvilCheeseWedge
06-06-2009, 09:46 AM
the first tour they did when they came back with that lineup it was labeled as black sabbath. when they toured with megadeth and machine head

Nope, that was Heaven and Hell. I saw that tour ;)

The last time Dio and Tony played a show together as Black Sabbath was November 13, 1992.

rjturtle9
06-06-2009, 10:20 AM
Nope, that was Heaven and Hell. I saw that tour ;)

The last time Dio and Tony played a show together as Black Sabbath was November 13, 1992.

ummmm i think it was black sabbath. my friend got a shirt from that tour and it says black sabbath

TonyD
06-06-2009, 10:30 AM
ummmm i think it was black sabbath. my friend got a shirt from that tour and it says black sabbath

WTF THAT'S NOT RIGHT. OZZY SHOULD SUE HIS ASS.

rjturtle9
06-06-2009, 10:34 AM
WTF THAT'S NOT RIGHT. OZZY SHOULD SUE HIS ASS.

hmmm... maybe it was a bootleg shirt. idk i'll ask him.

Sinfulsot
06-08-2009, 04:54 PM
Nope, that was Heaven and Hell. I saw that tour

The last time Dio and Tony played a show together as Black Sabbath was November 13, 1992.

ummmm i think it was black sabbath. my friend got a shirt from that tour and it says black sabbath

I saw that tour as well. they were billed as Heaven & Hell.

rjturtle9
06-08-2009, 05:41 PM
I saw that tour as well. they were billed as Heaven & Hell.

ur right my bad